curious about hand feeding/rearing

[MomtoPercy]

To those of you that breed and raise babies -

Beths thread with the adorable baby tiels, got me wondering... Out of curiosity because I don't breed and don't know these things : when do you start hand feeding a baby? And how do you do it? Do you remove the babies from mommy? If so, how do the mommies take it? What are the benefits of hand feeding other than taming the baby? Do you then take over the responsibility of weaning the baby onto solids/pellets too? Also, I've seen several references to 'bad handfeeding' that can hurt the baby - can you tell me more about this? Thanks! Looking forward to learning more about this! I have no intention of breeding but I am very interested in what happens to the babies before they are sold

 

[MikeyTN]

I take over hand feeding the babies when they're at 2 weeks old. The momma is used to me touching her babies and removing them. They're fine and just go about their business like nothing is going on. Hand feeding gives them the proper nutrition that sometimes bad parents don't do well on and sometimes we must remove them at a even younger stage due to bad parenting and to make sure all the hatchlings survive. Especially when you have a big clutch, the younger ones don't get the proper feeding as the older chicks takes all the food from the parents. And yes I do the weaning of the chicks getting them to eat solid foods.

When you don't hand feed properly such as if you make the formula too hot, too cold, wrong position feeding, etc. It can make the chick sick or kill them.

 

[crimson]

my parents are pretty much the same as Mikeys. I too pull them around 2-2.5 weeks of age. they are so darn cute too, all feisty, swaying back and forth like they can beat me up

sometimes you have to intervene early if the parents are not taking proper care of the chicks. I had to remove Angus at just 2 days old. her siblings had been tossed into the corner of the cage(not realizing the parents knew something was wrong with them) so I pulled Angus just to be on the safe side.....she was the only survivor out of that clutch

Being tide down to a feeding schedule is not fun, but it's not bad, you usually feed them around 4-5 hours apart.

It really is an amazing blessed wonderful humbling experience to watch mother nature grow to love you....btw, it takes about 3-4 days for them to really be happy to see you with the syringe, ha ha....that's when you become...... mommy!!!!

 

[MomtoPercy]

Thanks for the insights guys!

Another question - you both said that you sometimes have to intervene early because the parents are not doing a good job. Why do parents mistreat the babies (other than when they know the baby is not going to make it because of some defect)? And how do you know the babies are being neglected? Can you see inside the nest boxes? I thought nest boxes were pretty 'private'?

 

[Mike17]

Thanks for the insights guys!

Another question - you both said that you sometimes have to intervene early because the parents are not doing a good job. Why do parents mistreat the babies (other than when they know the baby is not going to make it because of some defect)? And how do you know the babies are being neglected? Can you see inside the nest boxes? I thought nest boxes were pretty 'private'?

The nesting box we've had 'tiels lay two clutches in has a hinged lid. I can just see the babies by peering in (I'm tall ) but I usually just put my phone at the top and take pics. Our pair are excellent parents and all babies were well-nourished, we take them to hand raise and sell (or keep- 2 from 1st clutch one from 2nd). I don't want a heap of related non-tame birds, is the main reason we hand-raise them. It's hard enough getting a decent price for tame birds. I'm in a small town so the market is tiny. I sold 3 from 1st clutch 900kms away- going there anyway for medical reasons.

I've not seen babies rejected, personally but we have, or have had, several from breeder in our last town. One was a day-old barraband, which died, the other a princess where the other two siblings had died or been killed. I seem to recall Kermit may have been rejected, he has a deformed beak and a missing claw. Apparently parent birds will kill or fail to feed deformed babies. Lucky for us one was saved- Kermit is a wonderful character, we love him dearly.

We have a bonded pair of eccies now, and hope they breed in coming autumn.

 

[MikeyTN]

Some parents just aren't good parents. When you've dealt with many breeding pairs you'll find some just aren't good parents. I've been through many pairs and I'm sure Beth have too. One of my pair produce some beautiful babies such as Lutino, Albino, Cinnamon Pearl Pied Whiteface, Pearls, Whiteface, Cinnamon Pied, Pied, and Greys. But they're horrible parents and if I had not intervene they wouldn't make it. I have more success rate with them now days by removing their chicks.

 

[MomtoPercy]

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your knowledge with me. This has been very informative

 

[MikeyTN]

Not a problem! At least you ask as some don't even ask and just dive right into it.

Forgot to mention, with that very pair I was talking about, their babies are the strangest I've dealt with before as they would eat wood chips and ended up dead. I caught one doing it and dealt with it by changing the way I prepare the baby tank and no more losses after that. None of the babies I've raised in the past have ever done that except this very pair. After some tears of loosing little EggBert, his siblings grew up healthy without eating wood chips.

 

[MomtoPercy]

Thanks Mikey . I have no intention of ever breeding - sounds way too tricky! I was just asking out of curiosity and interest . And in any event, NO mortal female BFA will be good enough to mate with my Percy

 

[crimson]

Thanks for the insights guys!

Another question - you both said that you sometimes have to intervene early because the parents are not doing a good job. Why do parents mistreat the babies (other than when they know the baby is not going to make it because of some defect)? And how do you know the babies are being neglected? Can you see inside the nest boxes? I thought nest boxes were pretty 'private'?

every breeder will have different experiences with 'bad parenting' at one time or another.

I had Dexter( Num Num's dad) hooked up with another female(Ruby)
Ruby was about 8-9 months old, and had her first clutch(normally I like to wait until they are older, but Dexter snuck himself in there without me knowing
Anyways.....they had two chicks, one was Sponge, and the other we named Healy.
Both I had to remove from the box very early on, Ruby never sat on them, only Dexter did, and they had so much goop on the tops of their heads it was vile!
it was covering their nostrils and poor Sponge had to breath out of his mouth.

Sponge was never quite right even growing up, mentally was fine, but his feathers were not good, and seemed to be starving all the time. that is why I kept him, he just wasn't right. His sibling Healy(he always stood on his heals, thus the name) grew up to be very beautiful. I just saw him about 2 weeks ago.

most breeders lift up the lid to take a peek at the babies.
I would love it if someone would invent a two-way mirror nesting box, you can see in but they can't see out.....now that would be amazing!

 

[MomtoPercy]

I would love it if someone would invent a two-way mirror nesting box, you can see in but they can't see out.....now that would be amazing!

I wonder - couldn't one get some of that mirror glass and replace one side of the nest box with it (mirror side inward)? The mirror shouldn't bother them since I assume it is quite dark in there? Just guessing.

 

[MomtoPercy]

How do they 'pick' a nest box or is one just provided and they do what comes naturally?

 

[crimson]

I LOVE your questions!

cockatiels aren't that picky where they nest, if you put one up, they know what to do with it. sometimes you can put two, sometimes 3 in, and they will choose the one they want to nest in. Breeders tend to do this when having multiple pairs in a very large aviary.10x10 or larger

Finches are super picky, I always provide 3-4 different types of nests, in different areas of the cages, and they pick one.

as for the two-way glass, no one has as far as I know. you would have to glue it to the side of the wooden nesting box, and that is not good for the birds.

this time I used a long wooden nesting box for my pair, rather than a metal one, and they seem to prefer it.

I have never used wood shavings due to them being dangerous and can be consumed by the chicks. my good breeder friend told me right from the beginnin, don't ever use wood chips.
I use the Care Fresh bedding, mixed with a small amount of wood chips and it has worked great with no issues.

 

[MomtoPercy]

Do you only breed tiels, Beth? How long do the chicks take to hatch? And do bird also have 'a cycle' for breeding or are they more like...er...humans, IYKWIM?

I take it that larger birds will take longer to hatch?

Once, when buying pellets for Percy, I saw a package of "breeding mix" food. Do the females have special nutritional needs when laying eggs? I assume extra calcium maybe?

Do the parent pair share hatching and feeding duties? Are they protective of their chosen nest box?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm facinated by all the info you and the others have provided . One thing's for sure - I never considered breeding and I never will! LOL!

 

[crimson]

oh I don't know, you sound like a pretty good candidate to me!...your asking very intelligent questions.

No, not just cockatiels, I breed conures, cockatiels, peachface lovebirds, fischer loveibirds,
red rump parakeets,canaries, and cordon blue finches.

as for the cockatiel eggs to hatch, once laid and they become fertile, they will hatch anywhere from 21-23 days....sometimes a little longer, but that is the normal range.

larger birds such as AG's, cockatoos,macaws I have no idea about
mikey would know more about those birds.

I start about 2 months in advance and start loading them up with good nutrients, so they are in peak condition before laying. Calcium along with vitamin D for absorption will prevent egg binding.

Cockatiels usually share the duties, both feed and look after the chicks.

lovebirds don't....mom sits on the eggs, dad will feed mom in the nest, then she feeds the chicks. dad is not allowed into the nesting area and will be protected profusely!!!. should he enter without her permission it is a certainty he will be severely maimed.

 

[MikeyTN]

Beth,

I actually don't like the care fresh stuff....lol

I have had baby tiels hatch as early as 15 days. The recent hatchling are 19, 18, and 17 days.

 

[MomtoPercy]

oh I don't know, you sound like a pretty good candidate to me!...your asking very intelligent questions.

Uhm, no thanks! I will leave that to you experienced guys

as for the cockatiel eggs to hatch, once laid and they become fertile

Say what? The eggs become fertile *after* hatching?? I thought that happens before the egg is laid! Interesting! I

I start about 2 months in advance and start loading them up with good nutrients, so they are in peak condition before laying. Calcium along with vitamin D for absorption will prevent egg binding.

Two months before...what? Do the mommies 'come on heat' like mammals do or fo you decide when you want them to breed and prepare the mommy before the daddy is 'sent to war'? LOL!

What is egg binding? I assume it is a dangerous condition for the mommy?

Once you've introduced the lovers, how do you know they were succesful? Is it just a case of waiting to see if an egg is produced? Oh, and something else just occurred to me - do a pair sometimes decide that they are just not meant to be parents and then just hang out like buddies (i.e. No mating)?

Thanks for your patience with my curiosity

 

[crimson]

Beth,

I actually don't like the care fresh stuff....lol

I have had baby tiels hatch as early as 15 days. The recent hatchling are 19, 18, and 17 days.

ha ha, I ALWAYS get that mixed up with lovebirds

cockatiels are 19-21 days.

why are yours hatching so early??

 

[crimson]

oh I don't know, you sound like a pretty good candidate to me!...your asking very intelligent questions.

Uhm, no thanks! I will leave that to you experienced guys

as for the cockatiel eggs to hatch, once laid and they become fertile

Say what? The eggs become fertile *after* hatching?? I thought that happens before the egg is laid! Interesting! I

I start about 2 months in advance and start loading them up with good nutrients, so they are in peak condition before laying. Calcium along with vitamin D for absorption will prevent egg binding.

Two months before...what? Do the mommies 'come on heat' like mammals do or fo you decide when you want them to breed and prepare the mommy before the daddy is 'sent to war'? LOL!

What is egg binding? I assume it is a dangerous condition for the mommy?

Once you've introduced the lovers, how do you know they were succesful? Is it just a case of waiting to see if an egg is produced? Oh, and something else just occurred to me - do a pair sometimes decide that they are just not meant to be parents and then just hang out like buddies (i.e. No mating)?

Thanks for your patience with my curiosity

oh boy.....you can tell if they are fertile in about 7 days after they are laid, not after they hatch.(maybe I didn't word it specifically enough)

females and males have hormones and will go thru cycles. when the hen is ready the male is always ready to oblige

once you introduce a pair, it's usually a wait & see.
It took Dexter over a YEAR to swoon Sundance....she hated him, and always refused him. I honestly thought she was a male, until one day I walked into the bedroom and saw Dexter mating with Sundance.....my jaw hit the floor!!!!

Dexter has been with other females but adores Sundance....too bad she is old.

Hens may lay eggs but may not be fertile. they know in a certain amount of time if they don't hatch they will abandon the nest. providing sturdy perches is the key to them connecting.

Egg binding....now there is a scary scenario. that is when the egg becomes stuck in the hens opening, usually due to lack of calcium.
it is a certain death if this happens.

Sometimes with very experienced breeders they can apply canola oil or virgin olive oil to the area to add lubrication, and sometimes that works.

remember when Tundra laid a shell less egg not too long ago, well she was darn lucky that she came thru it ok.

Tundra shell less egg after being laid-


my canary Lily laid this shell less egg just after I got her-obviously lacking some much needed calcium and Vit.D

 

[MikeyTN]

Beth,

I actually don't like the care fresh stuff....lol

I have had baby tiels hatch as early as 15 days. The recent hatchling are 19, 18, and 17 days.

ha ha, I ALWAYS get that mixed up with lovebirds

cockatiels are 19-21 days.

why are yours hatching so early??

I find by misting the eggs daily brings them to hatch early. I was surprised myself when one hatched at 15 days.