Crop needle feeding- HELP PLS!

[siM]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to this forum, but i've read many useful things on this site (so thanks so far!)

I'm about to get a new green cheek conure first bird in a while; last one was a budgie around 10yrs ago...

Still deciding whether to crop needle feed him or wait a few more weeks until he's weaned? (I'm so impatient to get him as I've been preparing for him/a GCC for around 4months!!)

Just wanna find out a few more details about crop needle feeding, watched a few vids online and read a few articles, but wanted to find out some owners first hand tips, difficulties, advantages and disadvantages about it.

I kinda want to do it for the experience, as well as I think it's something that I will need to learn in case I have to administer meds via crop in the future. At this point in time, I've got very easy access to vets; holistic and avian so I figured why not start learning now!

Any info would be helpful, even links to sites that I might not have visited yet re handfeeding and suggested crop needle sizes etc.

Thanks so much!! ^^

p.s. these are the cutest

 

[HRH Di]

Welcome to the forum! I hope we can answer all of your questions.

Personally, I'd wait until he's weaned. Formula-feeding baby birds take an experienced hand and, for me, it's worth it to leave it to someone with the experience.

 

[Spiritbird]

The feeding of the baby birds needs an experienced person. There are so many adverse reactions that can happen if you do it incorrectly. I highly agree that you should wait. After all you will need lots of patience with your new bird and you might as well start now.

 

[greycloud]

As a retired breeder I can tell you it is best to let an experienced breeder wean your baby out. There is no benefit to you doing it. Furthermore, the only reason to crop feed is if a baby is ill and has no feeding response. Uncaring and large bird farms that have large numbers of babies crop feed to get them done quickly and move to the next. There is no bonding and socializing taking place. If this breeder is crop feeding, I advise you to get a baby elsewhere.

 

[siM]

Thanks so much for the replies; I really appreciate the input so far

Does anyone have suggestions of how I could get experiences in crop feeding then? I'm actually studying Animal Science and working as a vet nurse atm, but haven't encountered many bird-related experiences, other than a few practical classes with an Avian Vet at uni and syringe feeding an abandoned wattle bird. We don't really get many birds into our clinic.
I would really like to gain experience in this first-hand before I get my bird then as I don't want to put my bird under more stress if the first time I'm crop needling him is when he's already sick.


greycloud- Thanks for the insight however I've actually visited this small-scale breeder several times to see the conditions of the avairy and the birds to see how they react to him, and I'm quite happy.
I'm not sure whether it's just more common in Australia for bird breeders to crop feed, as my friend who has been to several aviaries, ranging in sizes, for professional experience, mentioned that they do crop feeding there too.
I will bring the question up with him though

 

[Bobby34231]

Hi Sim and welcome to the forum, I agree with much of what greycloud has stated, tube feeding isn't the best method for healthy birds, it can be dangerous as well, puncturing the crop or tearing the esopagus, placing the tube outside the crop and causing the bird to asperate ect, it also takes away the birds natural feeding response and can sometimes make it very difficult to wean birds onto solid foods, I used this method a number of years ago on the advise of my avian vet when I was handfeeding 50 Quaker parakeets at one time, he instructed me and made absolutly sure I had the technique right before allowing me to continue unsupervised, that being said he also scolded me for taking on so many birds to handfeed at one time, I also had a number of larger birds that I was handfeeding by syringe at that time as well, so the only reason for the tube feeding was to help expedite the amount of time I was spending feeding all the birds, I've only used a tube for feeding a few times since and that was on birds that were to ill to use a syringe, in that respect I was glad for the learning experience, so with all that I also would suggest waiting for your new bird to be weaned before taking it home...Good Luck

 

[siM]

Okies haha so it does seem that everyone is quite against crop needle feeding idea....and I think as i read more, I'm heading against it too. I've managed to get in contact with my avian vet and he mentioned candida and coliform infections in the crop wash and feacal matter of the birds as well as fault lines in the feathers due to repeated stress from the procedure; I'll be sure to look for these as well as any other growth deformities when I go and visit the babies on Tuesday!!

(I know I'm being a bit stubborn here...sorry..><) but is there any way the chick can be converted from crop needle feeding to spoon/syringe feeding? Or is that a quite impossible task?

Thanks again!

 

[Auggie's Dad]

I have a naive question: what is "needle feeding"?

I was assuming you just meant syringe feeding (which wouldn't use a needle!) but now you contrast the two.

 

[greycloud]

AD, crop feeding refers to a handfeeding technique whereby a metal tube or a flexible rubber tube is attached to the syringe. The tube is fed directly down into the crop and the syringe is engaged filling the crop quickly. This form of feeding is only recommended for birds that have no feeding response. It is a type of force feeding. As mentioned many large breeding facilities use this form of HF to enable them to feed large amounts of babies in quick succession. This technique should never be used by the inexperienced as aspiration and crop puncture can occur easily.
Furthermore, babies are difficult to wean this way as they never acquire the taste of food. The food bypasses the tastebuds.
To OP, I still stand by my recommendation to let the breeder wean this baby for you. I cannot begin to tell you how many babies have lost their lives due to inexperienced people trying to handfeed. Their is no benefit in you handfeeding the baby. JMHO!

 

[Bobby34231]

Hey AD, heres a video that I found youtube, kind of drawn out and lengthy but it will show you what tube or needle feeding is, in this case it was used to administer meds instead of feeding..........

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKayj-s1Sxs]YouTube - How to tube feed a parrot[/ame]

 

[Auggie's Dad]

So what is syringe feeding?

We just use small syringes to crop feed, so the tip of the syringe goes into their crop.

 

[Bobby34231]

Handfeeding by syringe is placing just the tip inside the mouth and slowly injecting the food, allowing the bird to swallow the food into the crop on its own...........

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb-JOCvUxqQ&feature=related]YouTube - Handfeeding a Baby Cockatiel[/ame]

 

[Auggie's Dad]

Hmm, quite a bit different with passerines.

We use a small syringe so it can be put all the way into their crop. If we put food in their mouth like that they could suffocate.

 

[Bobby34231]

Ok last video...........not quite the mouth, not quite the crop, sort of an inbetweener :09:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OtfdB3RMQ&feature=related]YouTube - hand feeding baby zebra finch[/ame]

 

[siM]

Hey AD, heres a video that I found youtube, kind of drawn out and lengthy but it will show you what tube or needle feeding is, in this case it was used to administer meds instead of feeding..........

YouTube - How to tube feed a parrot

this is the avian vet I am in contact with constantly Dr Ross Perry

 

[siM]

Ok last video...........not quite the mouth, not quite the crop, sort of an inbetweener :09:

YouTube - hand feeding baby zebra finch

I'm starting to think that the breeder I am getting my GCC from might be doing this, as when I asked him what size crop needle he uses, he said size 8...but these are the ones suggested to be used for white cockatoos and pigeons???
there's no way you could fit a size 8 crop needle down a GCC's oesophagus is there...? :S

 

[erik7181]

I crop fed my sun conure chi chi. I got him to young he was 3 weeks. My advice is wait till he's weened it can be stressful . I know your excited and its so hard to wait but trust me.