Can't get her out of the tree!!

[JayInTheJungle]

What a beautiful baby macaw! I’m so glad you got her back.

Me too! she was so snuggly tonight!

 

[Zoruace]

Im so glad you got her back!
Gorgeous bird

 

[BirdyBee]

No I totally hear you and I appreciate your tone in sharing your opinions. So many people get angry about their perspectives and just start yelling. Deep down I agree, I never like the idea of clipping. Kind of like de-clawing cats. I'd love for her to be able to fly around, but then there are also so many predators around here! She attracted a lot of attention today, I've never seen so many raptors around my place in one day, then again I might have been extra sensitive to it today, but they were definitely eyeing her. One even went in really close still I started yelling and throwing stuff! Then we have all kinds of wildcats and such. Just really traumatized by todays experience. Makes you realize how attached you are! I've worked with a lot of animals over the years but few have a bonded to like Rosemary! She needs to make it with me till I'm old and on my death bed! Really torn for sure. Like others have said with a proper clip she would still be able to fly to a degree and keep up muscle tone right? I really need to build that aviary. With macaws the bond is pretty strong to come back right? Once she learns how to fly down better. I was impressed she found her way back today! She really took off far at one point, beyond my lot and the neighbors lot into the totally wild forest (18 acre plots where I am) but came back a few hours later (thought she was gone for good at that point).

If you wish to clip her, wait until she reaches adulthood, then clip. Baby birds need to fully develop those breast/wing muscles before being clipped

 

[Kentuckienne]

I’m glad you got her back safely. You now have some life experience to draw on in the clip/don’t clip area. I point out that clipping feathers is NOT the same as declawing - in declawing, the end of the toe is amputated, which is very painful for the animal. Clipping feathers is a temporary and painless thing. As to whether it’s “natural” … nothing about keeping a pet bird is natural. The inside of a house, the inside of a cage, is not a natural environment for any bird. On one hand, it seems like giving them the ability to fly is a step toward increasing what freedom they have. On the other hand, it exposes them to many deadly dangers. Parrots have been stepped on, slept on, struck by closing doors, died from flying into washing machines, dryers, windows, walls, ceiling fans, open toilets, pots of boiling water, hot stoves…they have died from chewing on electrical cords and houseplants, eating toxic foods, killed by other pets…no one is capable of constant supervision and even with watching they do things too quickly to react. Someone comes in a door, opens a window, and the bird reacts in instinct and is never seen again. A bird that’s trained to return when called can be spooked by a raptor or ladder or noise and fly out of sight, never to be found.

The point being, there is no natural life for a companion parrot and no way to make the environment completely safe. You just have to do the best you can. The truth is that parrots are not domesticated animals, and being kept as pets is more about the benefit to the human. I wish people would only adopt parrots from rescues, and then only after careful research, understanding of the commitment of time and money required, and discussion with the other people living in the house.

 

[wrench13]

She needs to be harness trained before you venture outside with her again. You narrowly averted a disaster. Even after clipping, if you decide to, unless you are in a VERY large field to do free flight, she should be on a harness. Even clipped parrots have been know to take off and fly if they are suddenly scared.

 

[Terry57]

I am so thrilled you got your baby back, I was on the edge of my seat reading this.
I also suggest waiting until she is older before clipping.

I am so so so glad she's okay now and back in her loving home!
However... It is totally up to you if you wish to clip or not, after all, this is your bird and you know what's best.
But even after such a scary experience of her getting stuck in a tree for so long, I'd refrain from clipping in general. I know I know, I'm crazyyy.
But clipping juvenile birds and even adult birds can really do a lot of physical and psychological damage. For one, their chest and flight muscles will not be able to properly develop the way that unclipped birds would.
Secondly, it can really affect psychological changes in a bird and they can somewhat lose their trust ORRR if not, they will just continuously depend on you as transportation around places in the home. Even if they have ladders and such accomodations, clipping can be pretty depressing for them even if they don't understand it.
And lastly, and I'm probably gonna be hated for this, it's just morally wrong.
Birds were meant to fly always, that's how they were created. Whether it be free in the open sky or our homes.
It creates less dependency issues, creates a more confident bird, and they physically build muscle that's really important for them.
Imho I think a bird should be clipped only for medical reasons.
But I definitely don't go around bashing people because they choose to clip their birds wings. It's up to them and it's their decision that I respect. Including yours.
I just think we as humans that take on these birds should be able to alter our lifestyles or homes in such ways that better suits our birds rather than change THEM and THEIR bodies just for our mere convenience. (I'm sorry guys hehe)
Again, I know it was scary but there are things you can do that can help to avoid these scary situations in the future such as closing windows and doors when your bird is out, turning off stoves and ceiling fans around them or opt for enclosed fans, or even taking your birds flying ability and teaching them ways to maneuver their flight so they don't crash into things. You could even teach your bird recall and teach them to fly DOWN areas so that this could be avoided in the future.
Saying this all out of love for birds and respect for you.
And trust me. I've clipped before but have never done it since 3 years ago because I just realized it was wrong and flawed in so many ways. (Just my personal opinion don't worry)
So yeah. That's all I had to say about it. We will never judge someone for clipping and I wouldn't either. Your bird, your choice, and lastly, your peace of mind.

Just a heads up...when you tell people something is immoral and basically say that anyone who clips is lazy? That is being judgmental.
I have clipped my birds before to protect them. Perhaps if you ever lose a bird who got startled and slammed into a wall and died from it then you would be able to understand a bit more. Clipping is a personal choice everyone makes for their birds and no one should be shamed by choosing it.

 

[Ria.345]

I am so thrilled you got your baby back, I was on the edge of my seat reading this.
I also suggest waiting until she is older before clipping.


Just a heads up...when you tell people something is immoral and basically say that anyone who clips is lazy? That is being judgmental.
I have clipped my birds before to protect them. Perhaps if you ever lose a bird who got startled and slammed into a wall and died from it then you would be able to understand a bit more. Clipping is a personal choice everyone makes for their birds and no one should be shamed by choosing it.

Terry I literally explained in the message that I wasn't being judgmental and that is not my intention. I'm not shaming them and I thought I made that clear?

 

[HeatherG]

(I LOVE the giant beaks on baby birds and this baby macaw has the cutest one! Kind of like a toddler with a big potato nose. She’s soooo cute!)

 

[Terry57]

Terry I literally explained in the message that I wasn't being judgmental and that is not my intention. I'm not shaming them and I thought I made that clear?

And I literally explained to you how you were judgmental in my post.
I apologize OP, we have hijacked your thread enough.
Ria, if you want to continue this conversation start a new thread in the Hangout, or PM me.

 

[JayInTheJungle]

The day after the ordeal she is eating like crazy! Nice to have her good feeding response back again. Before the "excursion" she was getting lazy with her feedings, making it hard to get much in her. Now she is feeding well AND eating a bit on her own. She was really clingy today too, which I didn't mind at all after all that! Her droppings were kind of all over the place but they seem to be returning to normal now so hoping her system is returning to normal.

 

[MayMaroa]

i AM SO GLAD about everything yayayyaya the birb is doing better know

 

[JayInTheJungle]

I’m glad you got her back safely. You now have some life experience to draw on in the clip/don’t clip area. I point out that clipping feathers is NOT the same as declawing - in declawing, the end of the toe is amputated, which is very painful for the animal. Clipping feathers is a temporary and painless thing. As to whether it’s “natural” … nothing about keeping a pet bird is natural. The inside of a house, the inside of a cage, is not a natural environment for any bird. On one hand, it seems like giving them the ability to fly is a step toward increasing what freedom they have. On the other hand, it exposes them to many deadly dangers. Parrots have been stepped on, slept on, struck by closing doors, died from flying into washing machines, dryers, windows, walls, ceiling fans, open toilets, pots of boiling water, hot stoves…they have died from chewing on electrical cords and houseplants, eating toxic foods, killed by other pets…no one is capable of constant supervision and even with watching they do things too quickly to react. Someone comes in a door, opens a window, and the bird reacts in instinct and is never seen again. A bird that’s trained to return when called can be spooked by a raptor or ladder or noise and fly out of sight, never to be found.

The point being, there is no natural life for a companion parrot and no way to make the environment completely safe. You just have to do the best you can. The truth is that parrots are not domesticated animals, and being kept as pets is more about the benefit to the human. I wish people would only adopt parrots from rescues, and then only after careful research, understanding of the commitment of time and money required, and discussion with the other people living in the house.

I really appreciate everyone's perspective. What you said "nothing about having a pet bird is natural" is a really good point. If we choose to have them, then we have to accept their lives will never be like theirs in the wild and since we have taken on the responsibility, our responsibility is to keep them as safe and healthy as possible. If I were in another context, I think I would be able to flight train her and keep her flighted. However, I have no wide open spaces out here, there are enormous trees everywhere. There are predators everywhere around here. You should have seen how many raptors came in to check her out! In many ways clipping her gives her more freedom because I feel safer having her out and wandering around exploring (with me nearby of course). Keeping her flighted pushes me to keep her contained more out of fear of another repeat of that day.
I should note she is a rescue. When I take on a bird it is always a rescue of either and orphaned or injured bird. This is just my first time with a Macaw! It is usually small birds and usually end up being returned to the wild. Total rabbit trail, I had a Trogon for a bit I rescued off the road after getting hit by a car (not me!). It was an amazing experience, I've never seen an injured wild animal so quickly trust me. She fought me at first but then something clicked and the relaxed, let me examine her, get her wing set. She took to eating right out of my hand and perching and singing on me in no time.
Anyhow, thanks for this perspective. Still mulling over my options but it just seems too much a risk to keep her flighted from what I've seen so far.
Oh, so inside the house, when she tries to fly, she never takes what seems like the best path. She always goes crashing into walls and doors rather than taking a nice clear straight path I keep trying to give her. IT always baffles me the routes she tries to take. Really afraid she's going to hurt herself.
Everyone makes really good points around this and it does seem to be a case by case basis involving a lot of factors around this decision. I don't think you can say one option is always better than the other. There are major ramifications either route you go.

 

[Terry57]

The day after the ordeal she is eating like crazy! Nice to have her good feeding response back again. Before the "excursion" she was getting lazy with her feedings, making it hard to get much in her. Now she is feeding well AND eating a bit on her own. She was really clingy today too, which I didn't mind at all after all that! Her droppings were kind of all over the place but they seem to be returning to normal now so hoping her system is returning to normal.

I'm so thrilled that she is eating so well! It sounds like she escaped any harm during her ordeal, and you staying out there to drive predators away is a huge part of that.
She is lucky to have you

 

[HeatherG]

I really appreciate everyone's perspective. What you said "nothing about having a pet bird is natural" is a really good point. If we choose to have them, then we have to accept their lives will never be like theirs in the wild and since we have taken on the responsibility, our responsibility is to keep them as safe and healthy as possible. If I were in another context, I think I would be able to flight train her and keep her flighted. However, I have no wide open spaces out here, there are enormous trees everywhere. There are predators everywhere around here. You should have seen how many raptors came in to check her out! In many ways clipping her gives her more freedom because I feel safer having her out and wandering around exploring (with me nearby of course). Keeping her flighted pushes me to keep her contained more out of fear of another repeat of that day.
I should note she is a rescue. When I take on a bird it is always a rescue of either and orphaned or injured bird. This is just my first time with a Macaw! It is usually small birds and usually end up being returned to the wild. Total rabbit trail, I had a Trogon for a bit I rescued off the road after getting hit by a car (not me!). It was an amazing experience, I've never seen an injured wild animal so quickly trust me. She fought me at first but then something clicked and the relaxed, let me examine her, get her wing set. She took to eating right out of my hand and perching and singing on me in no time.
Anyhow, thanks for this perspective. Still mulling over my options but it just seems too much a risk to keep her flighted from what I've seen so far.
Oh, so inside the house, when she tries to fly, she never takes what seems like the best path. She always goes crashing into walls and doors rather than taking a nice clear straight path I keep trying to give her. IT always baffles me the routes she tries to take. Really afraid she's going to hurt herself.
Everyone makes really good points around this and it does seem to be a case by case basis involving a lot of factors around this decision. I don't think you can say one option is always better than the other. There are major ramifications either route you go.

That sounds like my situation when I lived in northern WI. We still have some enormous trees that are hundreds of years old. And wild animals in our backyard (deer, bears, skunks, etc) that made living with pets or being a kid up there more complicated.

I lost a bird out the window and it flew around our yard up in the oak trees for days before finally getting blown down by a thunderstorm off the Great Lakes.

You are having an amazing life experience being able to bring up a baby macaw! I am so envious. I am in a city now and miss very much the woods and open spaces. My birds help, but no, it ISN’T natural. There are more people in my apartment building now than in the village I grew up near.

What an adventure.

 

[JayInTheJungle]

That sounds like my situation when I lived in northern WI. We still have some enormous trees that are hundreds of years old. And wild animals in our backyard (deer, bears, skunks, etc) that made living with pets or being a kid up there more complicated.

I lost a bird out the window and it flew around our yard up in the oak trees for days before finally getting blown down by a thunderstorm off the Great Lakes.

You are having an amazing life experience being able to bring up a baby macaw! I am so envious. I am in a city now and miss very much the woods and open spaces. My birds help, but no, it ISN’T natural. There are more people in my apartment building now than in the village I grew up near.

What an adventure.

Yeah I've been slowly moving farther and farther away from development until now I'm finally where I belong in my little jungle! Down side for having a bird is of course and an insane number of predators around. Raptors, wildcats, boas, fox... Got it all here. Speaking of Rosemary, she's giving me the wing flick so time for food!