Can we offer her more?

[chris-md]

Dave - how do you add apples and pear to a long term mix without them going bad the minute you cut them?

Confused:

Good morning. Regarding the food, there are a couple ways to approach switching over. You could try cold turkey. The key here is they won’t starve themselves in protest. Admittedly I lean this way.m, but work in some other tricks.

The other trick is to simply introduce her to a wide array of things and see what she does eat. She likes celery? Hey, smear a chopped up mix of other veggies onto a celery stick. She’ll go for the celery, and can’t help but get some other stuff into her in the process because it’s chppped up really finely. Food processor or hand chopper is your best friend.

So for a bit of hard truth: any sentence that starts with “she can’t” or “she won’t” is the human vastly underestimating the bird. Someone referenced Mark (birdman666) in a previous post. He is rather revered on this forum for his vast experience rehabilitating especially macaws and amazons for a parrot rescue. His experience shows even the most hardened of parrots can be brought out of their shells IF THE HUMAN IS WILLING TO DO THE WORK.

Your girl let’s you pick her up, and will take treats. You have everything you need right there to begin clicker training and target training. below im posting a video I created on how to start this from the beginning. Apologies to the forum, I’ve posted this a lot lately but it truly is for people like this OP that I made these videos to begin with. So you know what the beginning process actually looks like.

So this is the answer to your larger question. It’s not too late, it’s never too late. Don’t ever say your girl can’t or won’t; that’s purely on you. Target training is the beginning of opening her world. It increases the bond between you two because it develops a common languge. Suddenly your speaking the same laguage. She gets you and you get her. It builds her confidence. Training is one of the best possible ways to help her gain her confidence back. Take this to heart.

[ame="https://youtu.be/n3ahhijXxbM"]From clicker training (without the clicker!) to target training: the run up to flighted recall - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Confused]

i do my chop a week at a time, today is chop day ,i get fresh stuff every Sunday morning
so here is this weeks list
Kale
sweet tater
yellow squash
zuke
pumpkin
brock
apple and pear.
turnip
golden beet
and a melon to chunk up
and top the chop.
i use a small kitchen aid chopper
done and cleaned up in less then a half an hour.
i change things up every week. after a bit you will figure what works together
together to make a good chop that is not to wet or dry, my birds are used to a a dryer chop with some melon on top. with a dryer chop it keeps better in the fridge. as i said before i keep a big bag of frozen pee's as Max will do anything for a pee or two. even with how long relationship he is still hard to put into the cage so even after a year and a half i use food and it is no problem then to get him in sometime he just wont let go of the finger and has in the past tried locking onto it. a few pee's does the trick. i have learned with my amazon which are a lot more bitey then the eclectus i have gotten to quickly get my hand under her and force her to step up, since starting this she is much quicker to get on the finger and not lunging hardly at all. as for handling with gloves,i for one would never approach any of my birds wearing gloves. it is like approaching one with a towel in your hand, as for stick type items they don't seem to like at all i walk with a cane,and when they see one they all freak so i dont use them in the house any longer. more later time to run to the produce dept.

That's a great start on the foods. I will have to find a list of safe foods. We have a lot of organically grown veggies here, so much of that is around the house a lot. We will cut the pellets way down and supplement with the veggies and just keep that up until she decides she will eat them. After that we can make some "chop" umm, yum! LOL. Thank you!

 

[Confused]

I searched for some relevant posts...start with page 4 of Sailboat’s excellent “Restarting a shut down Amazon” posting the I Love Amazons thread, Amazons forum. It’s very helpful.

Birdman666 has written some of the best posts about working with rescue birds - he’s saved many from cage rot. One thing he recommended: birds tend to be afraid of gloves. Instead of wearing a glove, try wrapping a towel around your arm, securing that with an ace bandage, then putting on a long sleeve shirt so the bird doesn’t see any of that. This works! It allowed me to pick up Gus without being afraid of his bite, so much that I didn’t hesitate and he didn’t even have time to think about biting. He might also recommend getting the bird out of the cage by any means necessary and taking it to another room to work, out of sight of the cage/territory. I’ll try to find some of the posts...

Start with this post and work through the thread - he provides a lot of great links a couple posts down.

http://www.parrotforums.com/new-members-welcome/48584-hi-i-am-here-learn-3.html#post433866

Also


http://www.parrotforums.com/indian-ringnecks/66264-am-i-doing-right-2.html#post626399

Thanks. This is great. It will take me some time to get through these, but knowing that he advocates taking her out any way I can and removing her to another location is very good info. It's really what I have been wondering about.
I was thinking, it's sort of like going to a fair and being afraid of the rides. It could go 3 ways. 1. You never get on a ride and live without the excitement. 2. Your friends push you onto the rides and you are terrified but maybe in time come to love them. 3. Your friends push you onto the rides and you never love them.

If 2 doesn't happen, you never have at least a chance to love them. Our parrot is like 1, no one has pushed her out of her comfort to experience new things.

Yesterday I had an idea to take the door OFF her cage. Her cage has a door in the front panel, but the front panel also can be completely removed at the hinges. I took the whole panel off and then we went about our business. She sat there almost the whole day complaining, but finally after 8 hours or so she left the cage. It was great!

Looking forward to reading the links. Thanks!

 

[Confused]

Lots of good advice given so far!

About playing -- you might have to teach her. I worried about that too, and the brilliant members here told me to teach our bird. Get really enthusiastic about it, like it's the most fun thing ever. I felt silly at first, but Duke caught on. Mostly we chew things. Popsicle sticks and wooden things, like Dave said, and also paper shredding.

Do you give treats when she steps up? If not, that might help build a positive association.

There are some really smart and helpful people here, stick around. Try reading through older threads, it might give you some ideas, too.

That's a great idea on the play. I can try that. She seems real independent and not really into my actions, but it's definitely worth a try. I ahven't given her treats to step up. Also a great idea. One thing about that. If I give her treats outside her cage, she drops the pieces all over the rug, so really treats only happen in the cage. Hmmm, could that be part of the issue of her not wanting to come outside and play? How do you give treats without them ending up all in the carpet?

Thanks!

I put puppy training pads on the floor to catch the mess. Others here use those plastic things that go under office chairs, or even make their own floor cover from wood and vinyl. I think some simply vacuum multiple times a day. The mess is just part of life with a bird. Definitely not my favorite part but *shrug*

I love the puppy mat idea. We have some left over when we were training our dog, so that is a good use. I would think the chair mats would be too slippery and everything would end up on the rug anyway. I doubt vacuuming really get all that out of the rug, but I understand on the shrug. Every time I get out the vacuum, she runs to her water bowl and sticks her head in it. Only problem is she doesn't seem to care if she has already dropped food in it and I don't think it's good for her. I take the bowl out when I am vacuuming the room, but many times a day might not be the best situation. I will try the puppy pads!

Do you have any suggestions for perches that would could set up in other rooms?

Thanks!

 

[davefv92c]

i throw apple and pears in on top by themselves, with melon
makes the chop to wet,and as you say they are turning to wine quickly

 

[chris-md]

An ok so you’re topping of the chop just prior to serving. Gotcha.

 

[chris-md]

Confused for perches you have many options. You can rig a mic stand to become a t stand, you can buy ready made training perches, you can use the back of a chair, step stool, get creative

 

[Confused]

Dave - how do you add apples and pear to a long term mix without them going bad the minute you cut them?

Confused:

Good morning. Regarding the food, there are a couple ways to approach switching over. You could try cold turkey. The key here is they won’t starve themselves in protest. Admittedly I lean this way.m, but work in some other tricks.

The other trick is to simply introduce her to a wide array of things and see what she does eat. She likes celery? Hey, smear a chopped up mix of other veggies onto a celery stick. She’ll go for the celery, and can’t help but get some other stuff into her in the process because it’s chppped up really finely. Food processor or hand chopper is your best friend.

So for a bit of hard truth: any sentence that starts with “she can’t” or “she won’t” is the human vastly underestimating the bird. Someone referenced Mark (birdman666) in a previous post. He is rather revered on this forum for his vast experience rehabilitating especially macaws and amazons for a parrot rescue. His experience shows even the most hardened of parrots can be brought out of their shells IF THE HUMAN IS WILLING TO DO THE WORK.

Your girl let’s you pick her up, and will take treats. You have everything you need right there to begin clicker training and target training. below im posting a video I created on how to start this from the beginning. Apologies to the forum, I’ve posted this a lot lately but it truly is for people like this OP that I made these videos to begin with. So you know what the beginning process actually looks like.

So this is the answer to your larger question. It’s not too late, it’s never too late. Don’t ever say your girl can’t or won’t; that’s purely on you. Target training is the beginning of opening her world. It increases the bond between you two because it develops a common languge. Suddenly your speaking the same laguage. She gets you and you get her. It builds her confidence. Training is one of the best possible ways to help her gain her confidence back. Take this to heart.

From clicker training (without the clicker!) to target training: the run up to flighted recall - YouTube

Thanks for the video link. Yes, you are right, I don't mean to say she can't, I mean to say right now she won't. Doesn't mean she can't or won't in the future. So a couple questions if I may. If the treat is too small she won't take it. I think she is too scared of getting close to my fingers without something in the way. If I give her large treats it presents two issues, one, she gets full and two she will chew the larger piece for a VERY long time. Sometimes 5 minutes at a time. If I offer her more when either situation is the case, she won't take it, she will bite. It's sort of like I am annoying her.

Any thoughts on how to handle these situations? I noticed in the video, when he wouldn't take the treat, you were able to put it right to him and he took it. That wouldn't go well for me with my girl.

Thanks!

 

[Confused]

I want to thank everyone for all the great information. I am learning the website and want to apologize if I miss replying or thanking anyone for their post. They are all very good.

I was wondering if there is a link to a standard food list that would be good for Eclectus? I know some things, but also need to know what not to feed her. I know chocolate, and I think avocados and most processed food and certain plants. We went through that with our bunny because much of her diet was from our garden. I can do the research and work it out, but I thought there might be a web link that has them all listed?

 

[chris-md]

Of course. If that’s he case, the answer is simple. Any time she accepts the treat is a training win. If that means you initially have one bite at the training apple every 5 minutes,so be it. Go with the big food she accepts for now. You can make the treat smaller a little bit at a time and she won’t notice it. You COULD offer a small treat on a spoon, but I’d rather you work in a situation where she already accepts the fingers in some capacity. This will be how she learns to accept fingers, period end of sentences.

The key is to find her absolute favorite treat of all times and she only gets that when training. Let’s take take pecans as an example. You can start with a whole pecan, and because it’s big, you can break it into smaller and smaller pieces until you find the optimal size she takes and minimizing the eating time. That’s her boundary. After a few training sessions using this optimal size, her fear will have lessened a bit by virtue of associating fingers with treats, and you can make them just a little smaller.

With Parker his kryptonite is cheese. So if I want to introduce a new trick or a new object, his initial treat is cheese. This increases his motivation and speeds up his learning. Because cheese is bad for them, very bad, cheese is phased out after a couple sessions and replaced with nuts.

 

[Confused]

I was also hoping someone might be able to advise on taking her in the shower. I have heard that birds usually love water. Right now she is scared of it. I can mist her, but it seems like she is frightened when I do, like it's a punishment, not something nice.

Is it the case that all birds like water? Is she just frightened or is it possible she just doesn't like water?

Early on I put a tray of water with maybe an inch in it and tried to get her to go to it, but it was useless so we gave up. Any tricks to get her used to water?

 

[chris-md]

You’re discovering that there are different way to give baths. Parker was the same way as your girl. Hates spray.

What I did was simply put him on my shower rod when I took a shower. Eventually pulled him down into the shower with me, not into the stream, but holding him while I’m in the shower got him around water. Slowly I eventually introduced his tail to the stream, and that was enough. A little farther every time.

This video was actually the first time I put him up on the rod. Still do it to this day. He stil loses his mind around running water, whistling, talking, singing. This was how I actually got him to start talking in front of people cause this can be rewarded.

[ame="https://youtu.be/1Ze7TAV_iE0"]My nightly ego boost: Parker the Eclectus wolf whistles - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Confused]

Of course. If that’s he case, the answer is simple. Any time she accepts the treat is a training win. If that means you initially have one bite at the training apple every 5 minutes,so be it. Go with the big food she accepts for now. You can make the treat smaller a little bit at a time and she won’t notice it. You COULD offer a small treat on a spoon, but I’d rather you work in a situation where she already accepts the fingers in some capacity. This will be how she learns to accept fingers, period end of sentences.

The key is to find her absolute favorite treat of all times and she only gets that when training. Let’s take take pecans as an example. You can start with a whole pecan, and because it’s big, you can break it into smaller and smaller pieces until you find the optimal size she takes and minimizing the eating time. That’s her boundary. After a few training sessions using this optimal size, her fear will have lessened a bit by virtue of associating fingers with treats, and you can make them just a little smaller.

With Parker his kryptonite is cheese. So if I want to introduce a new trick or a new object, his initial treat is cheese. This increases his motivation and speeds up his learning. Because cheese is bad for them, very bad, cheese is phased out after a couple sessions and replaced with nuts.

Yes, that's a good point to keep the "good stuff" for training. I will start that. She is crazy about bread and I usually give her very small amounts knowing it is not good for her but that it makes her happy (kinda like ice cream for some people! LOL), but I will keep it for training and switch to something else as an everyday treat. Excellent point! Thanks.

 

[chris-md]

You can also start to teach foraging. These videos show exactly how I did it, from the beginning. Now he’s a pro!

[ame="https://youtu.be/KztWdrv4KsY"]Parker the eclectus' first foraging success - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://youtu.be/Qs_vpNE3xd0"]Parkers second foraging success - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Confused]

You’re discovering that there are different way to give baths. Parker was the same way as your girl. Hates spray.

What I did was simply put him on my shower rod when I took a shower. Eventually pulled him down into the shower with me, not into the stream, but holding him while I’m in the shower got him around water. Slowly I eventually introduced his tail to the stream, and that was enough. A little farther every time.

This video was actually the first time I put him up on the rod. Still do it to this day. He stil loses his mind around running water, whistling, talking, singing. This was how I actually got him to start talking in front of people cause this can be rewarded.

My nightly ego boost: Parker the Eclectus wolf whistles - YouTube

Thanks. We have glass enclosures. I am sure she would fly right off the top edge if I put her there. I could put her on the floor. She would not be able to fly up to get out and she could get to the corner where there isn't much flow, but there would be some, so it would be stressful for her at first. It might also be dangerous for me! LOL. Would this be okay or is there a better option. Basically she won't "volunteer" for anything.

BTW, Love the singing!

 

[Confused]

You can also start to teach foraging. These videos show exactly how I did it, from the beginning. Now he’s a pro!

Parker the eclectus' first foraging success - YouTube

Parkers second foraging success - YouTube

Very interesting! In the first one he seemed to show the aggressive nature that our girl attacks things that come near her. Even by the second time he seemed to be calmer about it. I will definitely try this. (only much more carefully! LOL)

 

[Confused]

Okay, off to put some of this into practice! I'll post how things go...

 

[chris-md]

Take videos of your progress with some of this. If you post them we can collectively help refine and help forward progress where necessary.

We moved a year ago, so aren’t in the house the original shower video was made. The new shower is also glass enclosed like yours. I just bought a shower rod and strung it from one wall of the shower to another, parallel to the glass wall.

 

[chris-md]

With the foraging, they key here was that the treat was easily visible and easily reachable with a minimum of effort.

 

[tashawithanekkie]

diets

This is a great link for diet. Anansi (Stephen) gave it to me when I came here, the whole site is great actually.