Can I train my bird without using the training diet?

[MerBoy]

I have seen some people highly recommend using a training diet to increase the productivity of training sessions.

The main idea of the diet is to make your bird a little hungry before its training session so that it is more motivated and focused during the training session. In a training diet the bird's daily food intake is divided into two portions. The bird will receive 1 portion in the morning (making up its breakfast meal) and the remaining portion in the evening (making up its dinner meal). Before you give the bird its breakfast or dinner you do a brief training session. While on the training diet your bird should never lose more than 10% of its baseline weight.

I personally don't feel comfortable implementing the training diet and was just wondering if I can still easily train my bird without restricting his food intake. Also, how many training sessions do you guys do per day and how long do they go for?

Thanks.

 

[Birdman666]

Okay... Uuumm... This might fall under the heading of People not quite grasping the concept.

You don't starve the bird EVER!

What you do, is if there is a particular treat your bird enjoys, and is willing to work for, he gets fed that treat during training sessions as a reward/bonding time with you.

You work with the bird one on one, just before mealtimes when he's hungry' so that food rewards are that much more attractive to him, especially where it would normally be the first thing he grabs out of his dish...

Its not a training diet per set, its a normal feeding schedule.

 

[MerBoy]

Okay... Uuumm... This might fall under the heading of People not quite grasping the concept.

You don't starve the bird EVER!

What you do, is if there is a particular treat your bird enjoys, and is willing to work for, he gets fed that treat during training sessions as a reward/bonding time with you.

You work with the bird one on one, just before mealtimes when he's hungry' so that food rewards are that much more attractive to him, especially where it would normally be the first thing he grabs out of his dish...

Its not a training diet per set, its a normal feeding schedule.

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I understand the concept of the training diet and know that this feeding schedule has nothing to do with starving the bird. I was simply asking if I could still make food available to the bird throughout the day and provide treats exclusively during training sessions without hampering the bird's performance. The only reason I said that I was uncomfortable implementing the training diet is because it is still a relatively new and unfamiliar concept to me.

 

[Doublete]

I think because you misunderstood what he means by the training diet.

You schedule the training sessions to fall just before his normal feeding times... You don't change the feeding schedule for training.
So if he eats at 8 am, 12 and 6... You train at 1130, and 530. I don't think many birds do well when just waking up.

So the training diet is not to feed around scheduled training... You train around the eating/feeding times.
Or if you don't feed at set times, but generally a certain few hours apart... Then you take them out to train before they get their food. And 20 min of successful training means they go back and eat their meal.

 

[Kiwibird]

I am not a big fan of the concept of giving my bird a free for all buffet all day long for reasons beyond training, but you certainly can offer food at all times if you feel more comfortable with it. It may make the bird less motivated to train though if he/she is already full (and you have absolutely no control over when the bird decides to chow down). Treats, of course, can and should be saved exclusively for training sessions (or rewards for other positive behaviors). I am also not personally fond of food based rewards long-term, and much prefer praise-based rewards instead. However, food-based is the best way to start training and one can 'transition' their bird to seek praise/affection as a reward at a later time. That way you can train at any time of day and can reinforce a positive behavior even if you don't happen to have a treat on you

 

[thekarens]

Personally I'm not a fan of training diets. I think healthy food should be available 24/7 and for the actual training use a loved treat like sunflower seeds or pine nuts, etc.

 

[Chihuahua]

I agree... I give my bird free reign of pellets after he has some time to munch on his chop, and use almonds for training.

 

[Birdman666]

First of all, just checking, because people have been misstating the whole "training diet" concept for years, either to make it look barbaric (which done right it is not) like we starve our birds just to get them to do tricks, or by going overboard with it, and being too extreme. Common sense sometimes seems less common than it used to be...

The concept is one of getting the bird on a regular feeding schedule.

What I would do if you want to leave food in the cage all day...

If he has an absolute favorite nut, or something like that that he's willing to work for, he doesn't get those in his dish. He gets those as a training treat.

That's all.

There's no one right answer. There are more than one way to train a bird. Most of them work because birds are highly interactive, and learn readily.

Praise and scritches can be as effective as treats if the bird is bonded to you... expecially if that bird is an attention hound big mac.

 

[Christinenc2000]

I worked for 30 minutes last night teaching BB to lift both wings on command . He did it 3 x for me . Not once did I offer a treat He got a scratch on the head and a lot of excitement from me.

Then again he might have done it 6x if I had given him a treat

Also I only train when I can see he is interested. Paying attention. Other wise its a waste of his time and mine. Will only frustrate both. So I can't see setting a schedule. As far as how long. Again you can tell when they are getting bored or tired. I hate to think of them as tricks ..... to me its more of a bonding. If he is doing something that excites him its double reward. I tried the turn around one but he really hates it.

 

[Birdman666]

Well, when training time is play time, it's not really work...

I've always tried to make it play time.

And Macs are so attention oriented that "do this and you get my undivided attention for half an hour" is sometimes the most effective thing there is.

 

[Christinenc2000]

Well, when training time is play time, it's not really work...

I've always tried to make it play time.

And Macs are so attention oriented that "do this and you get my undivided attention for half an hour" is sometimes the most effective thing there is.

Exact approach I have taken.

 

[Birdman666]

I honestly haven't done any trick training kind of stuff in ages...

That was more the conures thing...

I did the out and about/recall/no bite/stay put stuff to keep mine safe going out and about, but after that it was pretty much just all playtime...

I could, I guess, but it's not high on my "to do" list.

 

[Kiwibird]

I worked for 30 minutes last night teaching BB to lift both wings on command . He did it 3 x for me . Not once did I offer a treat He got a scratch on the head and a lot of excitement from me.

Then again he might have done it 6x if I had given him a treat

Also I only train when I can see he is interested. Paying attention. Other wise its a waste of his time and mine. Will only frustrate both. So I can't see setting a schedule. As far as how long. Again you can tell when they are getting bored or tired. I hate to think of them as tricks ..... to me its more of a bonding. If he is doing something that excites him its double reward. I tried the turn around one but he really hates it.

Agreed 150%. My bird occasionally gets a treat for a positive behavior, but mostly he seeks praise and a kiss on the beak as rewards. And Kiwi also has to be "in the mood" to learn, or training is a no-go. I've been working with him on identifying simple shapes, colors and assembling simple puzzles. It is a SLOW process. Maybe 2X a week, he'll be super into it, but the rest of the time, he just wants to abscond with the pieces and go do whatever he wants. I'm sure I could force him, but that's really not a good idea (I don't want a stressed out, pissy bird who doesn't like me). Forcing training is also just not a very nice thing to do. These birds are companion animals, not circus acts.

As long as they are obedient, trick training should be at their own pace/interest. Some individuals are much more interested in that than others and you may luck out in ending up with a bird who lives for tricks, but you also may get one who has no interest at all.

 

[Kiwibird]

Also, chiming in on the 'training diet', here are some reasons beyond making your bird food-motivated for training you might want to consider not leaving food in the cage all day long (just so you have BOTH sides of the argument to make an INFORMED decision):

1. Fresh foods cannot be left in the cage all day, or else they risk spoilage. For birds on a fresh foods diet (which I strongly recommend) this leaves them with 2 less healthy options to fill up on- seed or pellets. If your bird decides to fill up on dry, dead food right before the evening feeding, he/she may not eat as much of the healthy, living, fresh foods you offer.

2. Parrots, in nature, do NOT have easy-access food all day long. They have to forage/work for it, and may even go a day without (not that a pet bird ever should). By leaving the food dish empty and the foraging toys full, it encourages a natural behavior in your bird to spend his/her day self-rewarding by foraging for treats (but not so much he/she would be filled by mealtimes). And while some birds may enjoy foraging for the 'puzzle' aspect, for those who don't, they will simply ignore the foraging options for whats easily available in the dish. It's one less thing to keep your bird occupied during the day.

3. It discourages 'picky' eating to an extent (parrots are notoriously picky eaters). If your bird knows he/she gets a morning meal and an evening meal, that means he/she will be more likely to eat a bigger portion of whatever nutritious foods are being offered in those meals because he/she knows there won't be an option to fill up on junk later.

4. It makes it more difficult for the bird to become overweight or obese. And yes, that is a 'thing' and a VERY common problem in domestic parrots. Again, they don't have a 24/7 buffet in nature, but when we provide one in their cage, that means they can just eat until they pop. Of course, some birds won't but some will. They become overweight and lazy. It's not just motivation to train they lack, it's motivation to do anything at all (besides eat!). We call them 'perch potatoes' and it's a rather difficult problem to correct.

I know *some* may not agree with me, but I personally think there are far more benefits beyond training to not feeding during the day than there are to leaving a big, brimming full dish of food 24/7. Obviously, it's up to you, but if you didn't know the other side of the argument, how would you ever be able to make a truly informed decision of whats right for your bird? Had my bird not been a total junk food junkie when we adopted him (whom I fought daily with for over a year to try and get to even try fresh produce or anything nutritious for that matter), I would have NEVER considered not feeding during the day. I would have had the common misconception of it being somewhat 'cruel'. However, after about 4 1/2 years of him not having a food dish during the day, I see the benefits it has brought about in my bird- no longer a picky eater, eats mostly fresh foods, loves foraging, perfect weight, perfect health....

 

[Xraysrrad]

The training is NOT a way of depriving your bird of food or starving your bird.

In the wild, parrots spend 70 percent of their time searching for and gathering food. They may, or may not be successful. But, in our homes, their food is presented to them in a bowl, leaving the entire day to find other things to occupy their time.

There are times when food sources are not abundant and birds may go to roost at night having had barely enough food to get by. It took me a while to come around to the notion that food management did not equal suffering and it is not natural for birds not to work for their food.

The training diet is a way to motivate your bird by using the presence of a food reward for reinforcing good behavior so that your bird is likely to repeat that behavior such as accepting touch, stepping up without biting,etc.

I let my food run out of food after his nightly feeding. (It is important that you never remove food from his cage). In the morning, I get my coffee, fix his treats and we have a 4 – 5 minute training session. (Important to keep training sessions short!) About every hour to hour and a half, a family member works with him again for 4-5 minutes providing treats and pellets for desired behavior. So, he is training and feeding throughout the day.

Since I have been using the training diet, I have seen a tremendous transformation in his behavior. As well as his relationships with my children and husband.

 

[Christinenc2000]

The training is NOT a way of depriving your bird of food or starving your bird.

In the wild, parrots spend 70 percent of their time searching for and gathering food. They may, or may not be successful. But, in our homes, their food is presented to them in a bowl, leaving the entire day to find other things to occupy their time.

There are times when food sources are not abundant and birds may go to roost at night having had barely enough food to get by. It took me a while to come around to the notion that food management did not equal suffering and it is not natural for birds not to work for their food.

The training diet is a way to motivate your bird by using the presence of a food reward for reinforcing good behavior so that your bird is likely to repeat that behavior such as accepting touch, stepping up without biting,etc.

I let my food run out of food after his nightly feeding. (It is important that you never remove food from his cage). In the morning, I get my coffee, fix his treats and we have a 4 – 5 minute training session. (Important to keep training sessions short!) About every hour to hour and a half, a family member works with him again for 4-5 minutes providing treats and pellets for desired behavior. So, he is training and feeding throughout the day.

Since I have been using the training diet, I have seen a tremendous transformation in his behavior. As well as his relationships with my children and husband.

First time I have ever read that.
I work and no one at home all day so he is not able to be fed a treat or pellet every hour or half hour. I put dry pellet in his dish with safflower seed.

I guess this is why there are so many opinions. Agree to disagree . As long as your bird is happy and healthy .

 

[Birdman666]

Well, I work all day too... so that doesn't work for me either.

There were times I've done the training diet thing, and what you do is feed them a measured amount before work, and then feed them again when you get home.

These days I have a dry food dish, and a treat cup dish. What kiwibird calls "living foods" which is a good way to put it. That one is generally emptied quickly so there is no spoilage issue, at least I've never had one.

At night, dinner time, they get their big dose of fresh foods, right before we eat. I wash their treat cup and refill them with the good stuff (and they get fresh water.) That makes dinner time a flock activity, and we can eat in peace since they are busy chowing down on theirs when we sit down to eat...

Honestly, that's the way I've been feeding mine for about a decade, unless it was a specialized feeder (Eckies/Toucans/Lorries) or had some sort of a health issue which prevented me from feeding certain foods.

 

[Kiwibird]

.
I work and no one at home all day so he is not able to be fed a treat or pellet every hour or half hour. I put dry pellet in his dish with safflower seed.
.

Why not put the 'equivalent' of a pellet every half hour your gone in foraging toys or "hidden" places? Not enough he can fill up, but enough to keep him busy and provide a midday snack if he needs one I don't do pellets, but Kiwi gets his seeds scattered/hidden throughout foraging-specific toys, non-foraging toys, stuck in the rope perches, hidden here and there. Never a ton of them, but plenty to keep him busy finding them

 

[Christinenc2000]

Well, I work all day too... so that doesn't work for me either.

There were times I've done the training diet thing, and what you do is feed them a measured amount before work, and then feed them again when you get home.

These days I have a dry food dish, and a treat cup dish. What kiwibird calls "living foods" which is a good way to put it. That one is generally emptied quickly so there is no spoilage issue, at least I've never had one.

At night, dinner time, they get their big dose of fresh foods, right before we eat. I wash their treat cup and refill them with the good stuff (and they get fresh water.) That makes dinner time a flock activity, and we can eat in peace since they are busy chowing down on theirs when we sit down to eat...

Honestly, that's the way I've been feeding mine for about a decade, unless it was a specialized feeder (Eckies/Toucans/Lorries) or had some sort of a health issue which prevented me from feeding certain foods.

Exactly what I do !

 

[Christinenc2000]

.
I work and no one at home all day so he is not able to be fed a treat or pellet every hour or half hour. I put dry pellet in his dish with safflower seed.
.

Why not put the 'equivalent' of a pellet every half hour your gone in foraging toys or "hidden" places? Not enough he can fill up, but enough to keep him busy and provide a midday snack if he needs one I don't do pellets, but Kiwi gets his seeds scattered/hidden throughout foraging-specific toys, non-foraging toys, stuck in the rope perches, hidden here and there. Never a ton of them, but plenty to keep him busy finding them

I had thought about that. One reason is....there was a family emergency that kept me from coming straight home. I was 3 hours late coming home . That put me AFTER roost time. It has only happened once but if he is hungry and his dish was empty so he must have been......... i want to make sure he eats.