cage dominance...forcing to step up

[Anansi]

I would take my time with her and allow her to get used to her home and surroundings before introducing her to the dogs. And I'd also take things a little more slowly before forcing step-up. After all, you did say it's only been 2 days, right? You have plenty of time.

As for your original question, Mark (Birdman666) has given you a ton of great advice. Your question, however, touches upon the two main schools of thought on bird training. Old School vs. Purely Positive Behavior Training. (My terms. There are likely other, more official classifications out there.) What you'd read about and tried initially falls more under the scope of Positive Behavior Training, and I think what you read about it might have been an over simplification of the approach.

Mark is largely old school, which isn't to say he doesn't use a lot of positive reinforcement, because he does. The difference is mostly found in how a completely stubborn or out of control bird is ultimately handled. So the employment of Mr. Towel, for instance, or a cushion, would be "frowned upon" under the other approach.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating one or the other, here. Personally, I'm not a Positive extremist either. Especially when it comes to biting. But before you choose one method or the other, (or, as in my case, a mixture of the two) it would probably be good for you to see good and accurate representations of each.

Mark has represented rather well for the Old School approach, I'd say.

For classic examples of the Purely Positive approach, I'd suggest going on YouTube and checking out videos of Barbara Heidenreich.

This should allow you a fairly balanced basis for comparison between the two methods. Then you can simply choose what works best for you.

 

[jasper19]

Thank you so much for your input anansi....i am glad you took the time to post. I think you are right i will take my time with her. I think i am getting ahead of myself on some things, like you say it has only been a few days.

It is just very exciting and fun to finally have her in my home.

i think she will be ok, today she actually perched on a portable table top perch i had purchased. The first 2 days she acted scared and not wanting anything to do with it, so i just left it on the desk in front of her cage. Well today out of nowhere when i sat down with her, she acted like she wanted to check it out so i brought her close and sure enough she stepped right up....checked it out for awhile and hung out for about 10 minutes before flying back to her cage.

You can see in the picture her cage and to the right is her large play gym. She is on the play gym right now eating some food that is there.

 

[Taw5106]

She's beautiful.

 

[Kalidasa]

Beautiful bird

 

[Anansi]

Wow, she is a beauty!

Please make sure to keep us updated on her progress. And more pics!!!

 

[BEWolf]

I think that if you follow the advice given to you by birdman666, in regards to your Grey that you are going to end up with both biting and plucking issues. Please stop to consider that you have had this bird for all of two days. This bird is in a totally new environment and doesn't know you from Adam, of course it is going to say no I don't want to come to you , I am scared.
It takes time for the bird to acclimate to a new environment and to a new person. You should be more concerned with building a good trusting relationship with this bird right now. So when your new bird doesn't step up right away, accept this and give the bird a minute or so and ask again and reward the bird when it steps up for you. There may be times when you need to be more insistent on getting what you want, but this is not one of those times.
Now allow me to clarify a bit, you are not at present dealing with a cage bound bird or a territorial bird or any of the other issues that would require you to use the methods that birdman666 gave you, you are simply dealing with a bird that is fearful of its new environment and you. Use a gentle approach, giving the bird the opportunity to acclimate to its new home and conditions.

 

[jasper19]

Great advice bewolf...thank you.

She is indeed getting more and more trusting every day. As i mentioned in another post she had stopped letting me pet her back, but today has started to allow it a little bit. She also started giving 'kisses' and it is just the cutest thing.

She hasn't given me any problems other then that initial point. I set up the main room now where the dogs can come in but its a gated off area where they cant get to the cage. And they come in and check her out, she doesn't seem afraid of them at all, talking up a storm (confusing the dogs lol)....i know there was a dog and cat in previous home, not sure about first home.

 

[Birdman666]

Sorry. Had to laugh.

Because mine, obviously, bites and plucks... and is a maladjusted phobic wreck!



I am old school. That's correct. I throw it out there, and you decide if it's worth something. Take what works for you and leave the rest. I'm giving you the method that I use.

However, I will say that CAG plucking disorders are complex. UNLESS the bird is already plucking (and I already said that under no circumstances do this with a plucker...) I seriously doubt this will be enough to cause it.

CAG's generally bite simply because they don't want to do something, PERIOD! The cause and effect there is "I am stubborn, and I don't wanna."

Mine is far more likely to pluck you, than ever pluck himself...

But this is where the can of worms thing kicks in... there are people who strongly disagree with the methods I teach. And they are just as entitled to their opinion, as I am to mine. So take it for what it's worth...

 

[Taw5106]

Birdman is that Tusk??? Gorgeous!

 

[Birdman666]

Birdman is that Tusk??? Gorgeous!

Yep!

Rachel and I raised that bird from an egg...

Incidentally, that photo was taken at the same time, and in the same tree as the Maggie photo I use as my avatar. Along with one of my all time favorite Sally photos.



And they call Eckies the "flying flowers..." She looks like one in this photo. Happiest flower on the tree!



Tusk and PeaPod. They are actually pretty dang close to the same size and weight, absent the long macaw tail.

Tusk is one of the Big 'uns. He's a "silver" gray. He's OVER 500 grams! He's a monster sized CAG!



The only thing Tusk ever plucks are leaves...

 

[Constantine]

i have found out that my big male CAG, of unsteady, highly territorial, extremely violent character, benefits a lot by being "reminded" of who is the boss in a regular basis...

afterwards, he shows respect, does NOT bite, steps up (reluctantly or not), and longs for cuddling during evening hours....

that doesnt mean that he is like that to everyone...only towards me....towards all others, he is the same b@st@rd bird...

 

[Anansi]

I am old school. That's correct. I throw it out there, and you decide if it's worth something. Take what works for you and leave the rest. I'm giving you the method that I use......
...this is where the can of worms thing kicks in... there are people who strongly disagree with the methods I teach. And they are just as entitled to their opinion, as I am to mine. So take it for what it's worth...

Amen. This is EXACTLY how advice given and received on this Forum should be regarded. This is an important discussion. But also a potentially volatile one. Everyone please remember this and keep any dissenting opinions civil and respectful. Thanks, all.

 

[Birdman666]

The preferred method.

What you want to do is persuade, but not take NO for an answer.

Charm them, bribe them, get them interested in something. Like that? Wanna see? Gotta step up then... No, step up nice, no biting...

Then make it a pleasant experience for them, so they want to do it again next time, and reward them when you put them back... and then build on it a little bit each day from there.

Which part of this advice allegedly triggers or induces biting or plucking disorders?!

And, if you're disputing the need to set boundaries with a parrot, I would argue that most of basic parrot training INVOLVES establishing boundaries.

1. Step up, 2. no biting, 3. no one's going to hurt you, 4. you're not going to hurt anyone else. THOSE are the very first boundaries you set with a bird!

Until you set those, you can't handle them.

The sooner you establish these, the sooner you can see real progress.

Best advice: Go at the bird's pace, and figure out what he responds to, and do that...

 

[Birdman666]

i have found out that my big male CAG, of unsteady, highly territorial, extremely violent character, benefits a lot by being "reminded" of who is the boss in a regular basis...

afterwards, he shows respect, does NOT bite, steps up (reluctantly or not), and longs for cuddling during evening hours....

that doesnt mean that he is like that to everyone...only towards me....towards all others, he is the same b@st@rd bird...

CAGS are stubborn and opinionated!

It's part of their charm, and also what makes them a pain in the... fingers... from time to time.

CAGS get held on their own terms, and will frequently balk when you impose your terms on them...

 

[Christinenc2000]

i have found out that my big male CAG, of unsteady, highly territorial, extremely violent character, benefits a lot by being "reminded" of who is the boss in a regular basis...

afterwards, he shows respect, does NOT bite, steps up (reluctantly or not), and longs for cuddling during evening hours....

that doesnt mean that he is like that to everyone...only towards me....towards all others, he is the same b@st@rd bird...

CAGS are stubborn and opinionated!

It's part of their charm, and also what makes them a pain in the... fingers... from time to time.

CAGS get held on their own terms, and will frequently balk when you impose your terms on them...

Kinda reminds me of my Boss :09:

 

[Birdman666]

Kinda reminds me of my Boss :09:

I wouldn't know. I've never attempted to impose my terms on my boss...

I have a child, and parrots to feed. And I've never been all that fond of peeing outdoors.

(He's old school too..)

 

[Christinenc2000]

Kinda reminds me of my Boss :09:

I wouldn't know. I've never attempted to impose my terms on my boss...

I have a child, and parrots to feed. And I've never been all that fond of peeing outdoors.

(He's old school too..)

LOL Yeah that is the one area I don't push with my boss but she is a great person. Checks in twice a week so see pictures on BB and ask questions. I refer her to the forums LOL She said to tell you hi and she wonders if Mr Towel will work on employees LOL You have a fan I think

 

[Birdman666]

Of course it does...

You roll the towel up real tight, and snap it with the tip end pointed at someone's butt!

 

[markallan]

I know this is an old post, but it was a great read, it really helped me understand.

 

[sfhlb57]

I know this is an old post, but it was a great read, it really helped me understand.

An old post yes, but it expresses so much common sense. As a new parrot owner I found this post both informative and very useful. It should be required reading for tyro owners like myself!

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