Busting the myths of gender preference

[Ira7]

Many claim their birds hate men, but does this include transvestites, or transsexuals in early transition? A bird certainly can’t smell the difference between male and female humans, so is it sight alone?

If so, again...would a man-hating bird hate a really butch woman?

Is it more body size and body language? Because certainly, we have people of both genders who go against the physical characteristic norms of their gender.

Or maybe self-fulfilling prophecy? Like, my Grey wasn’t fond of my wife, and she would tell her girlfriends that she didn’t like ladies. Hence, no interaction with her girlfriends for the bird to socially learn and adjust. (I wanted to bring some young ladies home myself to interact with her, but my wife wouldn’t let me because they were hookers.)

Now, I’ve been lucky with Archie, and although he’s nervous around some people, it’s not gender-based. Granted, he’s still young, and he’s experienced “fairly” heavy socialization with people outside the immediate family. But he (or she, don’t know yet) is just CAUTIOUS around certain people. It’s certainly not a dislike.

So what the hell is the SCIENCE behind gender preference?

And I make the distinction between this and one-person birds, which can be more of a mating trait, but again, who knows? Nature versus nurture? Many people claim one-person birds far before maturity OR puberty!

And is there a greater percentage of female birds who hate men, more male birds who hate men, etc.? Has anyone STUDIED this?

There has to be something which explains gender preference behavior, and so far, I haven’t read anything that even begins to.

 

[noodles123]

I think it all has to to with appearances, vocal pitch, demeanor, and past association, because Lord knows, they can't smell much...A bird that prefers someone with a higher pitch and "classic" female look (based on past positive experiences) may translate that positive association to similar sounding/looking/acting people. My bird loves people with beards because one of her first good experiences involved a guy who had one. That doesn't mean she hates those without, but if you have one, you are that much closer to the "inner circle" lol.


It's all about past experiences, in my opinion. Lots of times, if a man or woman is disliked by a bird (and not fully invested) they will not treat the bird well...or ignore it. Given 2 people who interact with a bird, if one treats it well and the other sucks, then the bird (by nature of classifying and survival) is likely to determine that people with X characteristics can be trusted, and the one without cannot--- thus generalizing these associations to the rest of their life experiences.

Now, those rules can be broken, but only by people who have the patience and empathy to do so.

 

[SailBoat]

There is no 'science' behind the 'statement' of gender preference! It is worst than Junk Science in which numbers are played with to force a predetermined results.

And, as my good friend has stated above, Parrots have extremely limited sense of smell. What they do have is an excellent memory and as they collect experiences over-time, that they can make judgements based on historical events. In addition, they rely heavily on reading our emotions and picking-up on variations not only within that one Human, but between Humans.

Our Amazons come to us: Old, Sick, and commonly Abused! And, there is never any history. We spend the first several months feeding them medications and along the way, begin the process of developing a relationship. Fundamentally, 'three levels or more down from zero as a starting point, plus a zero want to ever interact with another Human.

As they begin the slow process of gaining some level of trust of us, they just as commonly have a bit better relationship from their point of view for one of us over the other. But, from our side, we work to keep the interactions equal and the odd person out gets to provide the goodies until that evens out...

As my good friend commented on, historical references will draw them to some degree, but its not an assure lock! Our Julio loves his Girl Friend, but when it's just us guys, he is right in there with relationship development with me.

IMHO, the vast majority of this is the Fault of the Humans! To use one of my favorite points regarding interaction with Parrots: They see it from the Point, Its Always the Fault of the Human! It's Never the Fault of the Parrot. Humans Screw-Up the Relationship, not the Parrot.

It is very common for the loved Human to secretly enjoy being the favored person and will knowingly or unknowingly support the "only likes this sex over that sex!

 

[fiddlejen]

Many claim their birds hate men, but does this include transvestites, or transsexuals in early transition? A bird certainly can’t smell the difference between male and female humans, so is it sight alone?

If so, again...would a man-hating bird hate a really butch woman?

Is it more body size and body language? Because certainly, we have people of both genders who go against the physical characteristic norms of their gender.

Well obviously the fact that Some folks fall outside of typical gender norms, does not negate the fact that Most males are distinctly different from Most females, both visually and auditorially, which are the main senses used by birds. My own vocal range is rather wide and my birds respond differently to soprano vs bass pitch.

I mean, I have no opinion or experience with birds preferring one-gender only. And it's certainly believable that many such cases may be either owner-perpetuated or even just non-factual.

...BUT... given birds' exquisite sensitivity to even very subtle visual and auditory cues, and given the Non-subtle visual and auditory differences between Most men and women, it seems obvious birds can tell us apart just as easy as we can tell ourselves apart.

And easy to believe that some birds may indeed develop a real preference for one or other-- just as some people also do.

 

[Ira7]

Many claim their birds hate men, but does this include transvestites, or transsexuals in early transition? A bird certainly can’t smell the difference between male and female humans, so is it sight alone?

If so, again...would a man-hating bird hate a really butch woman?

Is it more body size and body language? Because certainly, we have people of both genders who go against the physical characteristic norms of their gender.

Well obviously the fact that Some folks fall outside of typical gender norms, does not negate the fact that Most males are distinctly different from Most females, both visually and auditorially, which are the main senses used by birds. My own vocal range is rather wide and my birds respond differently to soprano vs bass pitch.

I mean, I have no opinion or experience with birds preferring one-gender only. And it's certainly believable that many such cases may be either owner-perpetuated or even just non-factual.

...BUT... given birds' exquisite sensitivity to even very subtle visual and auditory cues, and given the Non-subtle visual and auditory differences between Most men and women, it seems obvious birds can tell us apart just as easy as we can tell ourselves apart.

And easy to believe that some birds may indeed develop a real preference for one or other-- just as some people also do.

But we can’t determine bird sex by looking at them.

 

[Ira7]

There is no 'science' behind the 'statement' of gender preference! It is worst than Junk Science in which numbers are played with to force a predetermined results.

And, as my good friend has stated above, Parrots have extremely limited sense of smell. What they do have is an excellent memory and as they collect experiences over-time, that they can make judgements based on historical events. In addition, they rely heavily on reading our emotions and picking-up on variations not only within that one Human, but between Humans.

Our Amazons come to us: Old, Sick, and commonly Abused! And, there is never any history. We spend the first several months feeding them medications and along the way, begin the process of developing a relationship. Fundamentally, 'three levels or more down from zero as a starting point, plus a zero want to ever interact with another Human.

As they begin the slow process of gaining some level of trust of us, they just as commonly have a bit better relationship from their point of view for one of us over the other. But, from our side, we work to keep the interactions equal and the odd person out gets to provide the goodies until that evens out...

As my good friend commented on, historical references will draw them to some degree, but its not an assure lock! Our Julio loves his Girl Friend, but when it's just us guys, he is right in there with relationship development with me.

IMHO, the vast majority of this is the Fault of the Humans! To use one of my favorite points regarding interaction with Parrots: They see it from the Point, Its Always the Fault of the Human! It's Never the Fault of the Parrot. Humans Screw-Up the Relationship, not the Parrot.

It is very common for the loved Human to secretly enjoy being the favored person and will knowingly or unknowingly support the "only likes this sex over that sex!

What does your “good friend” reference have to do with anything?

 

[noodles123]

There is no 'science' behind the 'statement' of gender preference! It is worst than Junk Science in which numbers are played with to force a predetermined results.

And, as my good friend has stated above, Parrots have extremely limited sense of smell. What they do have is an excellent memory and as they collect experiences over-time, that they can make judgements based on historical events. In addition, they rely heavily on reading our emotions and picking-up on variations not only within that one Human, but between Humans.

Our Amazons come to us: Old, Sick, and commonly Abused! And, there is never any history. We spend the first several months feeding them medications and along the way, begin the process of developing a relationship. Fundamentally, 'three levels or more down from zero as a starting point, plus a zero want to ever interact with another Human.

As they begin the slow process of gaining some level of trust of us, they just as commonly have a bit better relationship from their point of view for one of us over the other. But, from our side, we work to keep the interactions equal and the odd person out gets to provide the goodies until that evens out...

As my good friend commented on, historical references will draw them to some degree, but its not an assure lock! Our Julio loves his Girl Friend, but when it's just us guys, he is right in there with relationship development with me.

IMHO, the vast majority of this is the Fault of the Humans! To use one of my favorite points regarding interaction with Parrots: They see it from the Point, Its Always the Fault of the Human! It's Never the Fault of the Parrot. Humans Screw-Up the Relationship, not the Parrot.

It is very common for the loved Human to secretly enjoy being the favored person and will knowingly or unknowingly support the "only likes this sex over that sex!

What does your “good friend” reference have to do with anything?

What's up Ira? Sailboat was just referencing what I said in a friendly/good-natured/jovial way...nothing wrong with that. I wish I understood this whole situation way better than I do, because I feel like suddenly there is a massive rift that appeared overnight.

It's not that they know what our "sex" is, it is that they associate certain looks with familiar people who they either like or dislike (which they then generalize to other people), and those"looks" often follow social gender lines...Not always, of course, but they lump people into categories based on appearances in many respects, and then extend those generalizations towards those with similar or dissimilar features/traits/behaviors.

 

[wrench13]

There is of course no scientific basis for any of this, parrot studies usually concern either medical topics or behavioral (to show how smart they are). A study to prove or disprove this topic under discussion would be difficult I think. One would need first of all a parrot comfortable with both sexes, and then introduce quite a few other individuals that both look similar to the 'control' people and also those that look dissimilar. An even that might not be a scientific approach, as parrots see much more that we do. And you would need to take into account the parrots background. This would be very hard to get objective, reliable, repeatable data (the basis for any experiment).

I do know that in my family, Salty does best with me. I am tall, beardless, with red hair and mustache. I can handle him, scratch him, put harness on him, in short I am the favored person. My wife is short, round, with blonde hair, no mustache. She interacts with Salty daily, usually waking him up, and feeding him breakfast, doing cage maintenance, getting him out of his cage around noon and feeding him lunch. Salty lets her pick him up but he never lets her scratch him. She can run him thru his training session when I am away. He has never tried to bite her ( I've been bitten plenty of times). My oldest son is tall, brown hair with a big ZZ Top type beard. Salty loves him and regurgitates for him. He interacts with Salty well and is allowed to scratch him, but Salty will not do his training sessions with him. My youngest son is not fond of birds in general, but has never treated Salty badly, ever. He is short, brown hair, 4 day beard and very thin in stature. Salty hates him with a passion. When he comes over to visit, Salty immediately spreads his tail feathers ( with him its a sure sign that a bite is coming), eyes pinned, head lowered, wings quivering, stalking him back and forth, in short all the signs of a agitated Amazon.

So in this dynamic, would another brown headed bearded person get the same reaction as the oldest son? Salty is out with me pretty regularly and is introduced to lots of people. I have to say he is neutral to everyone; he has never had the same reaction my youngest elicits with any stranger regardless of appearance. I really dont know what this proves or disproves, I just know I can let strangers approach him closely without him going into Dr Death mode regardless of looks. The most I can say is that in my experience it is Nurture over Nature.

All of this is strictly IMHO only.

 

[riddick07]

I met one at the shelter that absolutely hated men. She would go from 0 to 60 the second she saw one. I’m not even sure how she knew half the time but she could be playing quietly on a stand or with a female volunteer & a man would walk in and she’d be attacking his face the next second. I’m guessing there’s some kind of abusive history to get that reaction but it’s the only time I saw where we all agreed it was highly unlikely she would ever tolerate a man ever & down right dangerous to even allow it. She was a sweetheart with woman though. Didn’t matter what a woman looked like she loved them.

I’ve seen plenty of ‘preference‘ for man or woman but it could change in a second if the right person walked in or gave it time. I’ve only seen that absolute no way in just one bird. So it’s probably an outlier. Birds see ultraviolet light & can see the difference between themselves, so maybe that’s how they tell? I’m not sure there’s any thing to see between human male & females in ultraviolet but I guess it’s possible.

 

[SailBoat]

There is no 'science' behind the 'statement' of gender preference! It is worst than Junk Science in which numbers are played with to force a predetermined results.

And, as my good friend has stated above, Parrots have extremely limited sense of smell. What they do have is an excellent memory and as they collect experiences over-time, that they can make judgements based on historical events. In addition, they rely heavily on reading our emotions and picking-up on variations not only within that one Human, but between Humans.

Our Amazons come to us: Old, Sick, and commonly Abused! And, there is never any history. We spend the first several months feeding them medications and along the way, begin the process of developing a relationship. Fundamentally, 'three levels or more down from zero as a starting point, plus a zero want to ever interact with another Human.

As they begin the slow process of gaining some level of trust of us, they just as commonly have a bit better relationship from their point of view for one of us over the other. But, from our side, we work to keep the interactions equal and the odd person out gets to provide the goodies until that evens out...

As my good friend commented on, historical references will draw them to some degree, but its not an assure lock! Our Julio loves his Girl Friend, but when it's just us guys, he is right in there with relationship development with me.

IMHO, the vast majority of this is the Fault of the Humans! To use one of my favorite points regarding interaction with Parrots: They see it from the Point, Its Always the Fault of the Human! It's Never the Fault of the Parrot. Humans Screw-Up the Relationship, not the Parrot.

It is very common for the loved Human to secretly enjoy being the favored person and will knowingly or unknowingly support the "only likes this sex over that sex!

What does your “good friend” reference have to do with anything?

It has to do with anything that I want it too. Hence, my choice to include it as support for the comments made by another in which I built upon...

 

[bigfellasdad]

Enzo (male italian name!) breaks the accepted rules I think, she is Female however she identifies as male, I can deduce this by her very deep 'hello'. She does not like women, she just attacks them.....every one she meets. But she is hugely better with males and of course totally bonded with me and my youngest son to a great extent.