BRAINSTORMING: Biting Parrots

[MonicaMc]

DiscoDuck, those are some great photos!!! I'll have to check out that thread soon!

 

[Anansi]

We have a safety gate at the top of our stairs and it’s one of his favorite perches.
Hubby screwed in an eye screw, so we can hang toys there for him. He likes to fly from the bedroom to the gate. But, once he’s there he can get territorial & possessive. Much to my chagrin, when I offer my hand to Step Up he lounges at me & tries to bite me. It’s bizarre to say the least. So, of course I don’t do that anymore. Ha. But, I’m puzzled by it.
I asked the Vet & she recommended offering him a treat. But, she didn’t answer my question as to why this behavior would happen. Of course his fave treat would get him to come without any incident.
Now, I tell him we’re going down & ask if he wants to join us. If not, I leave him there. But, the question remains, why does he do it in the first place?

...But, fluffing up his feathers and lounging. It's clearly over the top. Not necessary, IMHO.
I don't rule with an iron fist and his has a great deal of freedom.
Considering we have such a pleasant & positive relationship it just took me by surprise. I need to take Parrot Psychology 101 ... ha

Hey, Tami. Thought I'd give my perspective on the very valid question that you're asking, here. Specifically where you are pointing out: "...But, fluffing up his feathers and lounging. It's clearly over the top. Not necessary, IMHO.
I don't rule with an iron fist and his has a great deal of freedom.
Considering we have such a pleasant & positive relationship it just took me by surprise."

Thing is, this behavior (as described) is not actually a reflection of a problem with your and Levi's relationship. You're only feeling like it's "over the top" because you are making a mistake that we all make from time to time with our beloved fids. You are anthropomorphizing him. But though the comparison is often made between parrots and toddlers, it's important to remember that this comparison is a limited one. Almost purely a measure of cognitive capacity. In truth, birds see things VERY differently than we do. And their reactions often stem from entirely different causes than ours do.

For example, take my ekkie, Jolly. He has a powerful hardwired instinct to protect his food that is actually quite hilarious in practice. As background: he is literally the most gentle parrot I've ever encountered. He has never bitten or nipped. Not once. Not anyone. Add to that the fact that I am undeniably his person. He LOVES me.

So at every mealtime, we have a process. I get out the serving of chop, heat it up under very hot water, and then serve it out into the bowls and place them on the counter. Then I get Jolly, carry him into the kitchen and place him on the weight scale. Once I've done so, he steps back up onto my hand and looks eagerly over at the counter where he knows the food is waiting. Once I grab it, he becomes so overcome with joy that he reaches up, unbidden, for a kiss. Every time. And then nuzzles lovingly against my cheek for the entire walk over to his cage. Once there, he hops off my hand/shoulder to the cage and does an eager dance as I remove the old bowl and put in the new one. As soon as that's in, he hops back onto my hand, reaches up for yet another kiss, and then jumps happily from my hand to the perch by the food bowl to begin eating.

Cute, right?

Yeah, until the door is almost closed. For some reason, that's the point when his food protective impulse kicks in and he puts on this aggressive display where he even strikes threateningly at the bars! Straight Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde transformation in the blink of an eye! Hahaha!

Now here's where he differs completely from a human child. This behavior has nothing to do with how he feels about me. Not even in the slightest. it's hardwired. A survival mechanism. Could it be suppressed through training? Sure. But why would I? Though as a funny aside, I've slightly redirected the same hardwired behavior in Maya. She also displays once the cage closes, but while I never tried to train it out of her, I developed a trust game with her where I say "Beak five" and rest my thumb against the bars of her cage. She then reaches over, in full threat display, lunges to strike, and then pulls short at the last second to deliver a gentle mouthing. It's to the point now that she enjoys giving the beak five and looks forward to it before she'll begin eating.

Why is this significant? Because it highlights the fact that our interactions with them are completely outside of what they were "programmed" for in nature. She loves me and has no desire to hurt me. She even enjoys giving the beak five. Yet she can't suppress her hardwired compulsion to put on her threat display. It seems a silly little exercise, but at the core of it is the heart of what it takes to have a successful relationship with a parrot. Namely, we have to learn to work around their instincts. (Which you seem to have instinctively understood, as your posts give me the distinct impression that you do not attempt to rule Levi through domination, but rather that you seek his cooperation.)

Okay. I've gone on longer than I'd originally intended. But the long and short of it is this. You shouldn't take Levi's hardwired response to you approaching something that he has laid claim to as any kind of negative disposition toward you or as an indication, one way or the other, of the status of your relationship with him. Know what I mean? End of the day, he's just a bird doing what birds do.

(Important note. If I'd read Maya incorrectly and wrongly anticipated how she would react to the placement of my thumb, the strike that followed would've been totally on me. Bites are avoided by reading bird body language and anticipating instinctive reactions. So a misread on my part would never be a fault on hers.)

 

[DiscoDuck]

Anansi! Fantastic post! WOW that is 401 college education stuff. IMHO Posts of this nature need to go uh.. In a book! Or. maybe just sticky it..

It defines, identifies, suggests possible solutions and results.

This is over my head... however your post is the epitome of the scientific method?

 

[Anansi]

Thank you! I just find the hows and whys of avian behavior fascinating.

 

[DiscoDuck]

well put. I'll add to my own endeavors in this area.. while I am convinced of certain behavioral conditions that I am experiencing. My interaction to convey to others will be limited to my own personality and that of my boy..

I noticed tonight that he is grabbing and or breaking the skin ever so slightly in an interaction with people he nor I have interacted with to any depth..

The thought is continuing to occur, do they pick up on these little nuances?

In other words..

A lady I spoke with in length tonight has met Rudy and I several times, however the conversation was longer, sorta more personal. does a/he parrot pick up on a behavior that is something out our normal human interaction?

 

[Anansi]

I definitely think birds pick up on a lot of our body language cues. In fact, they are far more sensitive to body language than we are. One of the things that has always struck me as I observed my ekkies together is how much of the communication between them is completely nonverbal. Jolly will be happily hanging out on her tree stand and then notice something in her stance or body movement and just fly away from her area. Just matter-of-fact. No fanfare. He just picks up on whatever micro-movements or whatever she's giving off to indicate that it's time to leave.

As an aside, this is the level of hyper-sensitivity that birds are used to while dealing with one another. So by the time we get chomped on, thinking that the bird bit us "out of nowhere", the bird is likely thinking to him or herself, "What the heck is wrong with you?!? Why don't you ever stop until I bite you?!?" It's also the reason that calmly and confidently approaching a bird for step up is less likely to get you bitten. Because a bird can read fearful body language... and it makes them nervous. All they see is that the person is anxious. Anxious in their prey-oriented minds can mean you are tensing to strike. So they respond in kind.

I said all that to say this: Yes, a parrot can definitely pick up on behavior that is outside of normal human interaction. And they might respond to said difference in any number of ways, depending on how they read it. If the person attempting to reach out to Rudy is a bit apprehensive, for instance, it could very well prompt him to nip. Or he might not yet be ready to allow that person to enter his space, and was "ignored" when he tried to express to that person (via body language) that he wasn't yet comfortable enough for them to get that close.

On the other hand, Rudy is what, around 3? He's just about to enter a period where some macaws get decidedly more difficult. Especially males. If I recall correctly, it can begin anywhere between 3 and 5 years old in a macaw. So that's a possibility as well.

 

[DiscoDuck]

Anansi.. You described in perfect detail what I have been suspecting in near perfect detail.. Amazing... I may as well go ahead and add some sorta funny anecdotal side notes.

uh... ok... one of things I tell people is regarding the intelligence level of these animals comparatively to others. That it is hard for me to describe, it is something that you have to experience first hand.

I suspect that my conversation crossed the line of what is a typical interaction with other humans. To be honest. I'm male, the person I was talking to (female) went to more of a personal level. Way more so, than is typical with the thousands Rudy and I have met previously. Mid way through the conversation, That's when I got my correction.. ROFL.. he was like...... Don't you even think about it! ....

I should have bit his beak and told him... go get your own girl!...

Now how the hey do I put that to the test? Oh wait .. Carry my mind around more in the gutter?

Yeah so... while I understand the adulthood nature and his growth, I feel I have limited myself. Maybe not... I will or want to continue to expand into new environments, (the concrete jungle this year) people and interactions.. One thing I don't do much of when we walk around, is like hour long time outs.. I just recently got one of the Aviator Yard perches, so setting it up in the park should be a breeze. This would be more of a duplication of what heredity likely already has instilled in him.. The equivalent of hanging out in a tree.

ah yep.. thats the message I got today.. "Dad, quit messing with the women.. us guys just wanna hang out somewhere"..

Any suggestions of any different things that we might try, would be great ones!. I know we are an unusual pair. I've got time and am really looking forward to continue to educate anyone who wants to listen....... and most do!!

Lastly, as Rudy enters into his adult years, I hope it will be interesting to see how this turns out and how we got there.

Thanks Anansi.. again another very solid in depth intuitive post .

SPOT ON!

 

[Anansi]

You're welcome! As for suggestions, two spring immediately to mind.

1) You obviously work very hard at keeping Rudy well socialized, which is great. All I'd suggest there is increased caution with his interactions with strangers. Given what you've observed lately, he's either going through a stage of testing boundaries or entering puberty. Either way, keep in mind that Rudy has a powerful beak. While he hasn't caused any serious damage thus far, you'll want to make the transition from people meeting him to being able to touch him far more gradual.

Fact is, puberty is a very unsettling time for pet birds. They don't know what's going on and often don't have any compatible potential mates around to help... figure things out. Raging hormones and impulses they don't understand often leave them in a significantly less than tolerant mood. Each bird handles this differently, but you should prepare for the possibility that he might be quicker to bite.

2) Next time you find yourself talking to a lovely lady and suspect it may go to "more of a personal level", you may want to keep her outside of his beak range... or find an acceptable date for him and go double. Lol! (Of course, if she becomes a regular presence their level of socialization can be worked on and ultimately deepened.)

 

[ChristaNL]

Thank you Anansi for bringing up hormones.


All my parrots go slightly (and sometimes major) of their rocker once it is full spring.


As you know I've only met my B&G macaw, Sunny, about 4 months ago.
She is 10 years old now- so no puberty issues, but she is over the top hormonal and pairbonding like crazy.
Beaking/ chewing/ half swallowing my fingers whenever possible and regurgitating al over (even my toes if she can get at them).



Since 2 weeks (give or take) she started the correction-biting: a fast peck whenever I do not go in the direction she wants me to or move fast enough to suit her.
(She is a plucker, so no- she can't get there by herself ...yet / I hope she will stop some day)
...

I am not a nice mummy: I've *never* laid an egg in my life and she is a fullgrown bird -> so it's a "no" and "back to the cage, no fun for you- you know better than to do that".


She has bitten me -of course- trying their boundries always happens (and I have caused her to be uncomfortable sometimes).
I just can't help tensing up (I do not enjoy pain) and usually that tells the birds they did something *really* upsetting.
(They notice *everything*)

Of course tensing up is alway the first way they themselves clearly anounce things are not right and flight or fight are coming up ..

so we are very clear something happened that requires some sort of (re)action.
(unintentionally of course, but it works out okay)
So...now the bird is *really* paying attention.
That is usually where I am not sure how *not* to react -> since I've already done so (tensed up), now all I can do is tell the bird "I am not afraid of you, I am not going to hurt you but I will tell you this was inappropriate -> and simply glare at them, move my face a tiny bit closer (Yes I am talking to you! With 3 parrots it helps to be specific) and give the bird a long dirty look before moving her away from me.
(Usually the cage because most my parrots are flighted, and I do not want to go into playing games where they come straight back to me anyway)
Then I move away, either to get the bandaids, a good cry (when it was a really painfull one) or just sit where I was before and ignore the bird for a couple of minutes.


==

Unfortunately for her - because of the sorry state her wings are in- she needs (wo)manhandling a lot. She gets fysiotherapie for the almost locked joints - there are no breaks (the parrotspecialist checked her out) but like what happens to us as wel - if you don't use a limb it soort of freezes (plastercasts anyone?) and she was in a cage that was way to small for her to be able to stretch and nobody knows exactly what happened to her wrist-joint (bite or fall?).
So there is a *lot* of not-natural-contact (wings stretching, manipulating etc.) which does not help her hormonal state at all.
Painrelief and restored mobility first, getting 'a divorce' aka normal social petting of just the head&beak&neck later....


So I'll be messing up my relationship with her for a little while longer/ sorry dear!
==


and yes ... always do something positive together afterwards!
Even just giving them a kind look and a little talk/ song/ whistle -> your posture will tell them all they need to know anyway; "it's allright again, no worries, we are good".


Sometimes it is hard not to remain scared - but as a human I can sort of resign myself to the fact that what I am about to ask of her can result in a bite ... and I understand why.
LOL and the moment I really "give up" (no more "what if") and go for it... out of the blue she will be fine with it! (no biting)

(Once again: bodylanguage is read and understood -> I relax - so does she)


No stress - no bites
sometimes it's that easy...

 

[ChristaNL]

whoops / so sorry, translation-issues ...

breaks => fractures
(english is my 3rd language, so I get in trouble sometimes)


So the wings are messed op, but not broken of have been broken as far as we could tell.

 

[EllenD]

I've just been reading through this entire thread, and there are some fantastic ideas being shared here about general parrot-behavior, and how we as humans misinterpret our own bird's actions much of the time. This isn't a rare thing, I believe that even the most-seasoned, experienced, educated, skilled parrot owners misinterpret their own bird's behaviors once in a while, and the main reason for this is that OUR BIRDS CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH (or whatever your native language might be)...We as human-beings are so used to other humans simply "telling us" what is wrong, what they want, what they need from us, etc., that we don't really HAVE TO analyze body language, vocal-sounds, etc. on a regular basis. So when our birds are actually trying to tell us something and we don't get-it, that's typically when they react to us in a way that WE PERCEIVE AS BEING NEGATIVE, while our birds are simply acting towards us and communicating with us in the same way they do with each other, and usually this is to simply get their point across and not to hurt us, it's not supposed to be perceived by us to be negative (remember, our birds believe that they are conveying what they want to us in a very direct way, and they don't understand why we aren't getting it)...

In my opinion, most of the time humans think first with emotion and second with logic and reasoning (the reason that we have "crimes of passion" as a legitimate legal defense in our justice system)...And while animals and birds certainly DO HAVE emotions and feelings and DO become extremely bonded with humans, they DO NOT think first with emotion at all, they think first with logic and reasoning...If they're hungry they eat, and they eat what is available, they don't think about what they "want" to eat and then analyze the situation, they simply eat (or they hunt/kill what is available and then they eat). This part of the human brain (the Frontal-Lobe) that innately puts our emotions first is exactly the part of the brain that most living creatures with brains lack...

When your bird is sitting on the baby-gate at the top of the stairs, and he "bites" you when you try to get him to step-up or come-off of the baby-gate, he's not actually "biting you" in the sense that you immediately (and emotionally) think that he is. I would feel the same way on first instinct, and I usually do, as does everyone..."Why did my bird just bite me? What did I do? That was mean of him, little brat..."...and of course there is what we are usually SECRETLY feeling inside when our birds bite us, yet we don't often talk about or admit to..."I can't believe he bit me. I love him so much. Doesn't he love me? He must not really love me, if he did he wouldn't bite me simply because I want him to step-up. Now my feelings are hurt."...And usually our feelings ARE HURT...again, this is because we put emotion first, and logic and reasoning second...

I can sit here, far-separated from you and your relationship with your bird, not even knowing you or your bird, or anything about you guys at all except the very basics that you've given us, and I the FIRST THING I THOUGHT OF WHEN I READ YOUR POST ABOUT THE BABY-GATE INCIDENT WAS "Well, obviously her bird has adopted that baby-gate as his own territory, he even has toys hanging off of it, and he's on it all the time, every day, and now that baby-gate is his. So her bird wasn't "biting" her at all, not the way she's thinking he was, he was just giving her a "warning" that "This is my baby-gate, my territory that I love, with my toys on it, and you can't just be putting your hands over here in MY safe territory, regardless of why you're putting your hands over here, same as putting your hands in my cage to get me out, that's my place too!"

That being said, if one of my birds had done exactly the same thing as your bird does while sitting on their own "baby gates", lol, my very first thoughts would be "Hey! What the hell did you do that for? I'm your mamma, don't you love your mamma anymore? What is wrong with you? Now you've hurt my feelings again for NO REASON other than you are being a mean bird...a jerk-bird...I don't love you anymore either!" LOL...

 

[Anansi]

Thank you Anansi for bringing up hormones.


All my parrots go slightly (and sometimes major) of their rocker once it is full spring...

...Since 2 weeks (give or take) she started the correction-biting: a fast peck whenever I do not go in the direction she wants me to or move fast enough to suit her.
(She is a plucker, so no- she can't get there by herself ...yet / I hope she will stop some day)
...

...She has bitten me -of course- trying their boundries always happens (and I have caused her to be uncomfortable sometimes).
I just can't help tensing up(I do not enjoy pain) and usually that tells the birds they did something *really* upsetting.
(They notice *everything*)
Of course tensing up is alway the first way they themselves clearly anounce things are not right and flight or fight are coming up ..

so we are very clear something happened that requires some sort of (re)action.
(unintentionally of course, but it works out okay)
So...now the bird is *really* paying attention.
That is usually where I am not sure how *not* to react -> since I've already done so (tensed up), now all I can do is tell the bird "I am not afraid of you, I am not going to hurt you but I will tell you this was inappropriate -> and simply glare at them, move my face a tiny bit closer (Yes I am talking to you! With 3 parrots it helps to be specific) and give the bird a long dirty look before moving her away from me.
(Usually the cage because most my parrots are flighted, and I do not want to go into playing games where they come straight back to me anyway)
Then I move away, either to get the bandaids, a good cry (when it was a really painfull one) or just sit where I was before and ignore the bird for a couple of minutes.

If I'm reading you correctly here, you're asking (in the sections I've put in bold print) how you could go about not reacting to being bitten by your bird. Apparently you've heard the very popular myth that the best way to react to being bitten is to have no reaction at all. But this is simply untrue. Of course you shouldn't go into full blown hysterics or screaming, as such a display could trigger more biting, but you should definitely reach over and remove the offending beak from your flesh while saying "No" in a firm yet even voice. The example I always use is this: If a 1 year old decided one day that it would be fun to just wind up and smack you full in the face, would you just sit there and quietly take it? Or would you correct the child's behavior by making it clear that such an action is unacceptable? Most people would choose the second course of action. Why? Because the 1 year old doesn't know any better... and he/she won't know any better until you teach him/her better.

Why would it be any different for a bird?

Boundaries need to be set. They need to understand what actions are acceptable. Personally, I focus on the bite pressure training aspect over the no biting aspect. Basically, this means that I train my birds not only to to refrain from doing any painful bites, but to understand what constitutes an acceptable amount of pressure. In other words, I course-correct even for a beaking that might not be painful, but that I deem too rough. This way, they understand that they can gently convey a message with their beaks that will be heeded and well received by me. And it also places a bit of a buffer zone between beaking and painful bite. Less bandaids that way.

So you may be wondering why I was saying that tensing could be a problem, earlier. Well, tensing in anticipation of a bite is the issue. Once the bite has happened, a subdued reaction is fine. But if you tense beforehand, you might be causing the bite. Why? Because that bird might be coming your way with the intention of climbing up onto your hand, and simply opening that beak to grab onto one of your fingers for balance. But once you tense, or flinch, it doesn't occur to your bird that her beak frightened you. She simply reads that you have tensed for conflict and threatened her balance when she was approaching with no ill-intent. Almost akin to you reaching out to shake someone's hand and seeing that person draw back a fist as though to strike. See what I mean?

(Once again: bodylanguage is read and understood -> I relax - so does she)


No stress - no bites
sometimes it's that easy...

I LOVE what you said, there! So true. Sometimes it really is that easy. The concept, anyway. Putting it into practice can be tough, though. Basically, it's a matter of training ourselves.

whoops / so sorry, translation-issues ...

breaks => fractures
(english is my 3rd language, so I get in trouble sometimes)

Your third language?!? Most impressive! And here I am still working on my second. Feeling like a bit of a slacker, now. Lol!

 

[Anansi]

I've just been reading through this entire thread, and there are some fantastic ideas being shared here about general parrot-behavior, and how we as humans misinterpret our own bird's actions much of the time. This isn't a rare thing, I believe that even the most-seasoned, experienced, educated, skilled parrot owners misinterpret their own bird's behaviors once in a while, and the main reason for this is that OUR BIRDS CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH (or whatever your native language might be)...We as human-beings are so used to other humans simply "telling us" what is wrong, what they want, what they need from us, etc., that we don't really HAVE TO analyze body language, vocal-sounds, etc. on a regular basis. So when our birds are actually trying to tell us something and we don't get-it, that's typically when they react to us in a way that WE PERCEIVE AS BEING NEGATIVE, while our birds are simply acting towards us and communicating with us in the same way they do with each other, and usually this is to simply get their point across and not to hurt us, it's not supposed to be perceived by us to be negative (remember, our birds believe that they are conveying what they want to us in a very direct way, and they don't understand why we aren't getting it)...

In my opinion, most of the time humans think first with emotion and second with logic and reasoning (the reason that we have "crimes of passion" as a legitimate legal defense in our justice system)...And while animals and birds certainly DO HAVE emotions and feelings and DO become extremely bonded with humans, they DO NOT think first with emotion at all, they think first with logic and reasoning...If they're hungry they eat, and they eat what is available, they don't think about what they "want" to eat and then analyze the situation, they simply eat (or they hunt/kill what is available and then they eat). This part of the human brain (the Frontal-Lobe) that innately puts our emotions first is exactly the part of the brain that most living creatures with brains lack...

Ah, Ellen! Excellent post! This is exactly why this thread is one of my absolute favorites. We gain so much insight into the behaviors of our birds once we take the time to stop viewing them as little feathered people! I love the point that you've made here, about the progression of thought in people (emotion, then logic and reasoning) as opposed to birds (logic and reasoning first). Although I'd just throw in the fact that their logic is firmly based on the foundation of their instincts. But once that distinction is made, your point captures beautifully the "language barrier" that separates a parront from his/her bird.

..."Why did my bird just bite me? What did I do? That was mean of him, little brat..."...and of course there is what we are usually SECRETLY feeling inside when our birds bite us, yet we don't often talk about or admit to..."I can't believe he bit me. I love him so much. Doesn't he love me? He must not really love me, if he did he wouldn't bite me simply because I want him to step-up. Now my feelings are hurt."...And usually our feelings ARE HURT...again, this is because we put emotion first, and logic and reasoning second...

Again, excellent. I have this conversation quite often with my sons. Not that they are being bitten. Jolly does not bite and I haven't had the courage to try them with Maya since my last botched attempt around 2 or 3 years ago (tried wrapping my older son's hand in thick layers of vet wrap to protect him from her bite so that he could have her step up. Of course, I didn't anticipate that said wrap would trigger her bite and that her Ginsu beak would slice through it like confetti! Sorry, Aidan. ) But Jolly doesn't always respond to them as readily as he always does to me, and sometimes it hurts their feelings (Aidan is 10 and Ryan is 7). So I often have to explain that it just isn't the same as with people.

I've also had this conversation with my sister, who was bitten by her husband's bird. But it's one thing recognizing this as an abstract concept. Quite another actually putting it into practice.

 

[ChristaNL]

Hmmm, I can't thank you guys/galls enough.


It really helps to brainstorm about why and where we go wrong.


One of my closest frieds *really* got himself into trouble with Japie (the eldest african grey).

He is really a catperson (and awfully good with them) but could not help himself and tensend up, started moving a bit more abrubt as a result... and Japie (who is a real sweatheart and usually can be trusted with anyone) actually FLEW at him from across the room, crashed on his neck and bit him hard and deep enough to really need a bandaid!


It took some time for them to be okay again (actually it's been two years and a lot of supervised interaction and positive reenforcement for both of them) - but today, out of the blue, he bought Japie a toy.
So I asume the human got over it



(It is funny how a macaw in the house makes the greys seem small and harmless :60: to almost everyone.)


We still do not know it the bite was really meant (attack) or that Japie overshot and just pulled the emergency-brake...


He hadn't flown for about 10 years (could just as easily been 20) and was still (re)learning his skills.
(He still is- but that is another story altogether)


They always say "hindsight is 20-20" ... maybe not in this case




=


I've since then learned that divebombing is Japies favorite mode of attack.
*surprise* *bam*

Still not sure why he does it - but he has knocked the macaw of the table/ of her perch a couple of times ...
(Appie is too smart to be caught by him and will fly off is she sees him coming.)


Weeks will pass without incident- then... still no idea why ... he'll start again.


But only the other parrots, be hasn't done it to a human in years.

 

[Tami2]

@Tami2 - It's honestly great the way you work with Levi!

Thank you so much, I’m doing my best. :heart:

 

[Tami2]

We have a safety gate at the top of our stairs and it’s one of his favorite perches.
Hubby screwed in an eye screw, so we can hang toys there for him. He likes to fly from the bedroom to the gate. But, once he’s there he can get territorial & possessive. Much to my chagrin, when I offer my hand to Step Up he lounges at me & tries to bite me. It’s bizarre to say the least. So, of course I don’t do that anymore. Ha. But, I’m puzzled by it.
I asked the Vet & she recommended offering him a treat. But, she didn’t answer my question as to why this behavior would happen. Of course his fave treat would get him to come without any incident.
Now, I tell him we’re going down & ask if he wants to join us. If not, I leave him there. But, the question remains, why does he do it in the first place?

...But, fluffing up his feathers and lounging. It's clearly over the top. Not necessary, IMHO.
I don't rule with an iron fist and his has a great deal of freedom.
Considering we have such a pleasant & positive relationship it just took me by surprise. I need to take Parrot Psychology 101 ... ha

Hey, Tami. Thought I'd give my perspective on the very valid question that you're asking, here. Specifically where you are pointing out: "...But, fluffing up his feathers and lounging. It's clearly over the top. Not necessary, IMHO.
I don't rule with an iron fist and his has a great deal of freedom.
Considering we have such a pleasant & positive relationship it just took me by surprise."

Thing is, this behavior (as described) is not actually a reflection of a problem with your and Levi's relationship. You're only feeling like it's "over the top" because you are making a mistake that we all make from time to time with our beloved fids. You are anthropomorphizing him. But though the comparison is often made between parrots and toddlers, it's important to remember that this comparison is a limited one. Almost purely a measure of cognitive capacity. In truth, birds see things VERY differently than we do. And their reactions often stem from entirely different causes than ours do.

For example, take my ekkie, Jolly. He has a powerful hardwired instinct to protect his food that is actually quite hilarious in practice. As background: he is literally the most gentle parrot I've ever encountered. He has never bitten or nipped. Not once. Not anyone. Add to that the fact that I am undeniably his person. He LOVES me.

So at every mealtime, we have a process. I get out the serving of chop, heat it up under very hot water, and then serve it out into the bowls and place them on the counter. Then I get Jolly, carry him into the kitchen and place him on the weight scale. Once I've done so, he steps back up onto my hand and looks eagerly over at the counter where he knows the food is waiting. Once I grab it, he becomes so overcome with joy that he reaches up, unbidden, for a kiss. Every time. And then nuzzles lovingly against my cheek for the entire walk over to his cage. Once there, he hops off my hand/shoulder to the cage and does an eager dance as I remove the old bowl and put in the new one. As soon as that's in, he hops back onto my hand, reaches up for yet another kiss, and then jumps happily from my hand to the perch by the food bowl to begin eating.

Cute, right?

Yeah, until the door is almost closed. For some reason, that's the point when his food protective impulse kicks in and he puts on this aggressive display where he even strikes threateningly at the bars! Straight Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde transformation in the blink of an eye! Hahaha!

Now here's where he differs completely from a human child. This behavior has nothing to do with how he feels about me. Not even in the slightest. it's hardwired. A survival mechanism. Could it be suppressed through training? Sure. But why would I? Though as a funny aside, I've slightly redirected the same hardwired behavior in Maya. She also displays once the cage closes, but while I never tried to train it out of her, I developed a trust game with her where I say "Beak five" and rest my thumb against the bars of her cage. She then reaches over, in full threat display, lunges to strike, and then pulls short at the last second to deliver a gentle mouthing. It's to the point now that she enjoys giving the beak five and looks forward to it before she'll begin eating.

Why is this significant? Because it highlights the fact that our interactions with them are completely outside of what they were "programmed" for in nature. She loves me and has no desire to hurt me. She even enjoys giving the beak five. Yet she can't suppress her hardwired compulsion to put on her threat display. It seems a silly little exercise, but at the core of it is the heart of what it takes to have a successful relationship with a parrot. Namely, we have to learn to work around their instincts. (Which you seem to have instinctively understood, as your posts give me the distinct impression that you do not attempt to rule Levi through domination, but rather that you seek his cooperation.)

Okay. I've gone on longer than I'd originally intended. But the long and short of it is this. You shouldn't take Levi's hardwired response to you approaching something that he has laid claim to as any kind of negative disposition toward you or as an indication, one way or the other, of the status of your relationship with him. Know what I mean? End of the day, he's just a bird doing what birds do.

(Important note. If I'd read Maya incorrectly and wrongly anticipated how she would react to the placement of my thumb, the strike that followed would've been totally on me. Bites are avoided by reading bird body language and anticipating instinctive reactions. So a misread on my part would never be a fault on hers.)

Wow Stephen, I believe you hit the nail on the head.
“You are anthropomorphizing him.” That is exactly the mistake I’m making and thank you for pointing that out. That makes so much sense.
Your thorough response has enlightened me and this will make all the difference I’m sure.
Much appreciate my Parrot Psych lesson :smile049:

 

[Anansi]

I'm so glad you found this helpful, Tami. It really is so easy to start looking at them as little people, especially with how intelligent they are. It's something I always consciously guard against, myself.

 

[Brittany0208]

Having had Java for almost 10 months, I have quickly learned his 'I'm going to bite' warnings: since he isn't that mobile, I notice he opens his mouth, follows the hand or whatever he doesn't like, and then screams all while lunging. Sometimes, when he doesn't want me to pet him, he'll just give me a nip. He's never screamed at me aggressively like he does with everyone else, but he will push my hand away with his beak or gradually bite harder if I ignore his warnings.

I believe this is all fear-based since he never had human contact until recently, so there have been times when I persist just to let him know that I mean no harm, and when I lightly touch his head, he realizes that I'm not going to grab him or harm him, then he'll relax and start beak grinding or cleaning himself. But with everyone else, he still lunges and screams, even if they offer food as a peace offering.

 

[Flboy]

My JoJo lived in a rescue for a full year, being groped daily by little kids that were in there constantly!
He hated everyone! When my daughter and I walked in there, and he jumped right up on us we had no idea just how special of an event that was! It still took months for him to get used to hands!