BFA is smaller than my OWA

[Snabb133]

Hello,

I just wanted to know if this is normal? Or is it because Kiki my BFA is just 6 months old? I started a thread before about if amazons liked headscratches, but we later came on the topic about my BFA being a little smaller than usual, and looking a bit unusual. You can see the pictures of her in my Gallery of Kiki. Feel free to check my other parrots too. Back to the main thing, Do you think that she is just making her look small or is she just a unique type that came from a line of smaller Amazons? Please let me know what you think of her. And I also don't know if she is a Pure Xanthopteryx or a Blue front, or a mix between the two. This is very interesting to me and i'd really appreciate some good info. :32: :32:

I'm still loving her as she is an amazing parrot so far, but I just want to know as much as possible about her. I hope you understand.

 

[Starwing]

Hi and welcome to the forums and congratulations with Kiki!
She looks perfectly healthy to me! She does look a bit smaller than my own BFA, but that might very well be an age difference. Seeing as you are already referring to Kiki as "her", I am guessing you have had her gender checked by an avian vet? Besides of the young age of Kiki right now, and that she still has a lot of growing to do, I've been told that although the adult size of hens does not differ from that of males in amazon parrots, the gross "body mass" might and adult male parrots might be built a tad heavier.

All in all, I understand like no other that it's always nice to have someone else confirm that your dearest companion is looking just perfectly healthy, and I have made quite the inquiry or two of my own on these very forums concerning my Kobus the BFA. Thankfully, you've decided to join a very helpful and friendly community!

I can't wait to see what she'll look like in a year from now!

 

[Snabb133]

Hi and welcome to the forums and congratulations with Kiki!
She looks perfectly healthy to me! She does look a bit smaller than my own BFA, but that might very well be an age difference. Seeing as you are already referring to Kiki as "her", I am guessing you have had her gender checked by an avian vet? Besides of the young age of Kiki right now, and that she still has a lot of growing to do, I've been told that although the adult size of hens does not differ from that of males in amazon parrots, the gross "body mass" might and adult male parrots might be built a tad heavier.

All in all, I understand like no other that it's always nice to have someone else confirm that your dearest companion is looking just perfectly healthy, and I have made quite the inquiry or two of my own on these very forums concerning my Kobus the BFA. Thankfully, you've decided to join a very helpful and friendly community!

I can't wait to see what she'll look like in a year from now!

Thank you very much for that amazing and kind comment. Made my day!

Yes, I've heard that male Amazons tend to be a tad bit bulkier than female amazons. Kiki has been DNA sexed and is confirmed to be a Female BFA. I'm thinking it's an age thing because she is still looking like a baby BFA, and she makes her self look small, it seems. But what I don't 100% know is if she is a pure Xanthopteryx, or a mix between the blue front and the Xantho. It would be nice to know for sure, but I guess it wont fully show until her first molt.

The real question though is why she is so quiet at the moment. I've only heard some chirps, a few shrill screams in the morning and night. and that's it. I thought they could make more types of sounds/noises. But I guess she will do it later on as i've only had her for 2 months. I've spent loads and loads of time with her, training and bonding, and so far it's been an amazing positive process which i'm really happy for. The pictures on my gallery shows it. And your opinion/thoughts really made me happy for her! Thank you! :32:

This community Rocks!

 

[Dopey]

I've had my BFA since October 19th. He is finally getting a little louder. For a long time he just squeaked. Now it's more of a squawk.

 

[henpecked]

Welcome to the forum. I'll try and address your first question. Size,,,,, yes your BFA might seem a bit small. I see she appears a bit smaller but she mostly a "Chaco" BFA which is a bit larger than the nominal BFA . Being only 6moths old means she should gain about 10percent at a healthy adult weight. Of course early nutrition plays an important part in the overall scheme of things. You can't overcome being "stunted" in the delevolmental stages of life. It happens. Especially in the wild, "Survival of the fittest", however in the pet trade those babies survive.
I would suggest a weekly weigh session. Make step up on a digital kitchen scale a game. Comparing grams is much better way to assess health/size in zons. I wouldn't stress over size compared to other species. Other factors would also include things like activity level and diet. I have a 500 gram hen nape who is a bit on the small size but she's 45 yrs old and the light of my life.

 

[RavensGryf]

Welcome to the forum. I'll try and address your first question. Size,,,,, yes your BFA might seem a bit small. I see she appears a bit smaller but she mostly a "Chaco" BFA which is a bit larger than the nominal BFA . Being only 6moths old means she should gain about 10percent at a healthy adult weight. Of course early nutrition plays an important part in the overall scheme of things. You can't overcome being "stunted" in the delevolmental stages of life. It happens. Especially in the wild, "Survival of the fittest", however in the pet trade those babies survive.
I would suggest a weekly weigh session. Make step up on a digital kitchen scale a game. Comparing grams is much better way to assess health/size in zons. I wouldn't stress over size compared to other species. Other factors would also include things like activity level and diet. I have a 500 gram hen nape who is a bit on the small size but she's 45 yrs old and the light of my life.

Wouldn't individual genetics come into play too? I mean after all, for example, people of the same ethnicity can vary greatly in frame size, having nothing to do with their health and vitality. So, I'm thinking perhaps the same can hold true with bird species, dog breeds, (kangaroos... and everything else) right?

 

[Snabb133]

Welcome to the forum. I'll try and address your first question. Size,,,,, yes your BFA might seem a bit small. I see she appears a bit smaller but she mostly a "Chaco" BFA which is a bit larger than the nominal BFA . Being only 6moths old means she should gain about 10percent at a healthy adult weight. Of course early nutrition plays an important part in the overall scheme of things. You can't overcome being "stunted" in the delevolmental stages of life. It happens. Especially in the wild, "Survival of the fittest", however in the pet trade those babies survive.
I would suggest a weekly weigh session. Make step up on a digital kitchen scale a game. Comparing grams is much better way to assess health/size in zons. I wouldn't stress over size compared to other species. Other factors would also include things like activity level and diet. I have a 500 gram hen nape who is a bit on the small size but she's 45 yrs old and the light of my life.

Great answer! Exactly the type of information that I wanted! So it's leaning toward a Chaco Blue front now, hmm interesting. She seems to have become a bit larger in size since I got her, But I don't know maybe thats a placebo. Or because she has become more used to living here. I weighed her today and she weighed in at 419 grams. Which I think is perfectly fine. right?

How did you come to the conclusion that she might be a Chaco Blue front? It's very interesting now. She does look quite unique.

Thank you!

 

[Birdman666]

Joanie Doss is something of a zon guru. This is how she describes it:

Blue Front Amazons

My Pecker-bird was a yellow wing. She was one of the bigger ones. She was also very, very fat when I got her. (As Round as her food dish...)

 

[Snabb133]

Joanie Doss is something of a zon guru. This is how she describes it:

Blue Front Amazons

My Pecker-bird was a yellow wing. She was one of the bigger ones. She was also very, very fat when I got her. (As Round as her food dish...)

So basically Kiki is either a cross (intermediate) between the blue front and the Xanthopteryx, or a Chaco Blue front Xanthopteryx. Which one would you say fits her the most according to the looks and the small details? Also I've noticed that Kiki has a more beige with black type of nose. I've not seen a single picture of a Xanthopteryx or blue front ever that has a similar looking nose, at all. All had a completely black one. Another interesting factor. :32:

 

[JerseyWendy]

Someone (like YOU) would actually have the bird 'in hand' to 'try' and differentiate the sub-species.

Here are some great links for you. Perhaps you can try and figure out what sub-species Kiki is.

Blue-fronted Amazon (Amazona aestiva) | Parrot Encyclopedia

Blue-fronted Amazon, Amazona aestiva Blue Front Amazon Parrots

Blue-Fronted Amazon Birds

Lexicon of Parrots

 

[Kiwibird]

I really think she's a mix personally. To my eye, she shows traits of both subspecies. Keep in mind, parrots are no more than a few generations out of the wild, they aren't like purebred dogs or horses that can have their lineage definitively traced. I'm sure the BFA subspecies 'intermixed' in the wild to some degree, so the likelihood she had wild caught parents or grandparents means even if the region those birds came from was known, their exact genetic makeup is still unknown and may have a mix of both.

 

[Snabb133]

I really think she's a mix personally. To my eye, she shows traits of both subspecies. Keep in mind, parrots are no more than a few generations out of the wild, they aren't like purebred dogs or horses that can have their lineage definitively traced. I'm sure the BFA subspecies 'intermixed' in the wild to some degree, so the likelihood she had wild caught parents or grandparents means even if the region those birds came from was known, their exact genetic makeup is still unknown and may have a mix of both.

Someone (like YOU) would actually have the bird 'in hand' to 'try' and differentiate the sub-species.

Here are some great links for you. Perhaps you can try and figure out what sub-species Kiki is.

Blue-fronted Amazon (Amazona aestiva) | Parrot Encyclopedia

Blue-fronted Amazon, Amazona aestiva Blue Front Amazon Parrots

Blue-Fronted Amazon Birds

Lexicon of Parrots

Thank you very much for Your help and viewpoints. I'm really sure now what she is. She is definitely a Mix between the Xanthopteryx and Aestiva. So I'll call Kiki a ''hybrid'' as I can't seem to find another word that fits better. Suggestions? But all in all this is finally solved, and I could'nt have been sure of it without Your help. Which is why this forum ROCKS! Highly Appreciated! :32: :32:

I'll come around again when or if I have further questions in the future. I Hope I haven't been annoying to You guys. But this was very interesting for me. And now im fully satisfied and happy, thanks to You. :32: :32:

 

[Kiwibird]

I'd just call her a blue front amazon. I doubt you'll find yourself needing to get THAT specific very often.

 

[henpecked]

Very true about having the bird in hand. Thanks MsWendy i should have mentioned that. Your local AV would be your best choice for a good opinion.

 

[Snabb133]

EDIT: I measured Kiki and Kiwi Today, and I was very wrong. Kiki Measured 38.4 CM from tail to head, and Kiwi measured exactly 33 cm from tail to head. The difference between them is in lenght, the body mass is about the same. Though.. Kiwi still has a broader and bigger beak/head and eyes, I guess it's normal.