Benjamin nailed me good...

[Carabella]

Tonight we had friends for dinner. We spent a lot of time in our sunroom where Benjamin's cage is. This is our normal sanctuary, where hubby and I spend most of our time. Our main TV time is here, my bonding time with Benj is here, this is where he knows he's safe. He was great, chirping, purring and engaging.
So, after they left, around 10, I spent time talking and singing to him and after a few minutes I offered him his stick. He came right out and seemed happy. I laid my right hand casually on the stick which is my usual invitation and gauge of his feelings. If he nuzzles, he's fine, if he's aloof, he's not interested.
He sauntered over and just latched on. He scissored my index finger so hard he drew blood and even dropping my hand had no effect. He was royally pissed! Why?
So, now I'm sitting here crying like my heart is broken, my husband is pissed because I even attempted to handle him as I always do, but this is also the guy who hasn't handled him in 32 years because he bit his lip. I'm bereft, but I'm not ready to give up.
Do I even know this bird? Tonight I feel like I read him totally wrong.

 

[thekarens]

Does he have a normal bed time? I don't have a zon, but mine get very nippy if I keep them up past their bedtime and 10 is way past it for them.

 

[Betrisher]

Dominic often nips after visitors have gone. I think he gets a bit het up and then needs an outlet. Or something... I wouldn't worry too much. I reckon Benjamin was just a bit overexcited and overwrought by all the comings and goings. He'll be fine tomorrow, I bet!

 

[strudel]

I'm sorry. I wouldn't take it personally, I'm sure it was something "birdy" and not directed at you to be mean.

(Did you shake hands with your visitors? Maybe you "smelt funny")

 

[Christinenc2000]

Does he have a normal bed time? I don't have a zon, but mine get very nippy if I keep them up past their bedtime and 10 is way past it for them.

I agree. After sunset mine gets irritated if I come to close. He is ready to settle down. Even if he is not sleeping that is quiet time for him.

 

[Ann333]

Does he have a normal bed time? I don't have a zon, but mine get very nippy if I keep them up past their bedtime and 10 is way past it for them.

I agree. After sunset mine gets irritated if I come to close. He is ready to settle down. Even if he is not sleeping that is quiet time for him.

This is true for my birdie too. He's a rude little guy late at night, he just wants to be in his cage and play or eat. This is his alone time.

 

[Minimaker]

Does he have a normal bed time? I don't have a zon, but mine get very nippy if I keep them up past their bedtime and 10 is way past it for them.

I agree. After sunset mine gets irritated if I come to close. He is ready to settle down. Even if he is not sleeping that is quiet time for him.

This is true for my birdie too. He's a rude little guy late at night, he just wants to be in his cage and play or eat. This is his alone time.

Taz gets grumpy in the evening, as though he's winding down and needs to rest. He's way more bitey then too. He's sweet in the morning after I get him out of his cage, but come evening I better put him in and leave him alone or my fingers will suffer for it at some point. I think they get overstimulated and tired from so much human noise/interaction and at some point need to be alone for awhile with peace and quiet.

 

[miloslave]

Lol, when the sun sets mine are done for the day. Then they do not want to know anything about anything. Even my sweet little Milo turns into a little monster then.

Don't stress about this too much, remember that sometimes it is one step forward, 2 steps back. Also remember how far you have already come with a bird that has not been handled in ages. On the bigger scheme of things this is a small setback. Just keep trying. Slow steps, and don't get discouraged!

 

[Birdman666]

Don't take it personally, it could mean lots of things:

1. For example, jealousy. I wanted to come out hours ago. Now it's too late. You spend all night with those people, and NOW you want attention from me...

2. Could be he was tired and didn't want to come out. I will, but I know if I bite you, I'm going back in my cage... so guess who's gettin' bit! (Oh yes they do!)

3. This bird has not been handled much, which means he IS NOT tame. NOT TAME birds can, and will, bite... often for no reason other than NOT TAME. He just may not recall his manners...

4. Mine lets me know when she does not want to be picked up this way, the difference being that she is bite pressure trained. I get pinched, not a blood draw. Yours has not learned to control his bite pressure. So he could have just been saying I don't want to... (again, not tame, so he doesn't know his manners.)

5. They have mood swings during breeding season. (i.e. NOW!) It's not personal, it just happens.

 

[ImmunoGoblin]

I'm so sorry! That would make me sad too. But I agree with everyone else, don't let it get you down too much. Tater (DYH) is a total jerk early in the morning and late at night. He is definitely more volatile at those times. I get frustrated sometimes because he doesn't let me scritch and play rough with him like he does with my partner. I'm like "ACCEPT MY LOVE!" I have to keep re-setting my expectations and remembering that for a male DYH, I'm doing pretty well in that i can handle him regularly with confidence just for step-ups and riding around on my shoulder.

 

[mh434]

I recently did something that REALLY irked Sammy (my YNA 'Zon) - I put him in a travel cage & left him with a sitter (extremely savvy bird lady). When he came back, all seemed fine - until I got near him, and he went after me. Drew blood immediately, latching on & sawing away on my arm. That went on for over a week, and I lost blood every time I got near him! I did learn that, whenever he got pissy at me, if I just turned and walked away, he'd get a little less grumpy the next time I got near him. Eventually, one day, he climbed up on my arm as though nothing had ever happened, and was (and has stayed) more affectionate than ever before.

Bear in mind that I'm the ONLY one Sammy will let near him!

The point is that YNA 'Zons can feel slighted easily (when I come home from work, I have to say hi to Sammy BEFORE I greet the dogs, my wife, etc., or I'm in trouble!), and they hold a grudge! They will come out of it, once they feel you've been properly punished, though. Take heart, try to be understanding and patient, and he'll get over it...

 

[Carabella]

Wow... All your responses make perfect sense. You're all my bird gurus.

This morning I came down and Benjamin fell all over himself for scratchies.

I was feeling overly confident last night and he was more overwrought than he looked. It was a recipe for disaster.

Birdman, you're 100% right. He's not tame at all. I told my husband this morning that he didn't do Benj any favors 32 years ago by not continuing to handle him when he was bitten so badly.

This also leads me to the question of once a bird has clamped on and won't stop trying to literally scissor your finger off what methods do you use to get him off? I gritted my teeth and didn't yell (I'm sure everyone knows how hard that is!), I said "no bite" and dropped my hand, but he held on like he was on a roller coaster. I tried to roll him back and forth, but he just increased the bite pressure.

 

[Birdman666]

This is one of my favorite Sally Blanchard articles on this topic:

http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-beh...ues-aggression/think-your-bird-hates-you.aspx

Well, personally, your best defense to that one would be to anticipate it, and not let him latch on. As you learn to read him better, you'll know what he's going to do before he does... Amazons, in my opinion, are one of the easiest birds to read because they telegraph what they are going to do with their body language.

Once he does, if you do anything that causes him to lose his balance, then what ever he is holding onto will only get chomped down on harder as a way of steadying himself...

What I do when a bird latches on, and it's only happened a couple of times in 15+ years, is to use my thumb and forefinger of the other hand on the lower mandible, and squeeze it just enough for the bird to let go...

I wouldn't expect to make huge progress on the "touchie-feelie" stuff with a not tame hot 3 during breeding season. The time to really focus on the taming and training is once breeding season ends. Right now, if you can just get him used to being stick handled, and out away from the cage, and on a set "daily interaction" routine. If you can do that, you've made progress...

Once breeding season is over, then they become easier to handle.

I forget... did you ever try picking him up straight from the cage with a towel wrapped around your arm?!

 

[Birdman666]

The point is that YNA 'Zons can feel slighted easily (when I come home from work, I have to say hi to Sammy BEFORE I greet the dogs, my wife, etc., or I'm in trouble!)

THAT is not unique to Napes... My Red Lored is very much the same way. She's one of my original birds, and my flock leader... She very much believes that her position in the flock means she should go first. First one greeted when you walk in the door, first one picked up, first one fed...

If she isn't first, she's been known to "shun" me the rest of the night... as in turn your back and ignore you! The "silent treatment." Give her her favorite treat, she just drops it, climbs to the highest point on her playstand, with her back to you, and ignores you...

It used to bug the hell out of my girlfriend that I said hello to the bird before her, but Sally was pissey all night if I didn't... (and my GF was pissey all night if I did.)

I figured a grown woman would understand that... Uuummmm... notsomuch!

 

[Birdman666]

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my other post...

Amazons are also notorious for displacement biting.

If there is something (or someone) close by that upsets the bird, he's liable to bite YOU, because he can't bite that other thing...

The trigger is THE THING. And if he sees it, and you are too close to THE THING. He will bite the crap outta you 99 times out of 100.

Was there a displacement trigger nearby when this happened?!

 

[Carabella]

This is one of my favorite Sally Blanchard articles on this topic:

Your Pet Bird Doesn't Hate You

Well, personally, your best defense to that one would be to anticipate it, and not let him latch on. As you learn to read him better, you'll know what he's going to do before he does... Amazons, in my opinion, are one of the easiest birds to read because they telegraph what they are going to do with their body language.

Once he does, if you do anything that causes him to lose his balance, then what ever he is holding onto will only get chomped down on harder as a way of steadying himself...

What I do when a bird latches on, and it's only happened a couple of times in 15+ years, is to use my thumb and forefinger of the other hand on the lower mandible, and squeeze it just enough for the bird to let go...

I wouldn't expect to make huge progress on the "touchie-feelie" stuff with a not tame hot 3 during breeding season. The time to really focus on the taming and training is once breeding season ends. Right now, if you can just get him used to being stick handled, and out away from the cage, and on a set "daily interaction" routine. If you can do that, you've made progress...

Once breeding season is over, then they become easier to handle.

I forget... did you ever try picking him up straight from the cage with a towel wrapped around your arm?!

How do you know breeding season is over? I swear he's hormonal 365 days a year!

I've towelled him several times in the past, but only if he was on the floor. I've tried gloves (oven mitts) to utter failure. He hated them and they're no protection against a pissed off bird.

I'll read up on towelling, but would you agree it might be better to start after breeding season?

 

[Birdman666]

How do you know breeding season is over? I swear he's hormonal 365 days a year!

That's not hormones... that's the "not tame" factor.

YNA breeding season tends to be late January/early February through Late June... (Yeah, hot 3 really means longer breeding season.)

So, somewhere around the 4th of July pencil in "Time to tame the savage bird."

In the meantime, when in doubt assume he WILL bite, and act (protect yourself) accordingly.

 

[Birdman666]

I've never seen oven mits work. It has the opposite affect. Big scarey thing coming at me. I don't know what it is, but I'm gonna defend my nest!

What I have done, however, is to wrap the towel around my arm, giving them no skin to grab ahold of, and stepped them up onto my arm without the stick, using the towel for protection. If he bites the towel he goes to the floor, and best of all, it doesn't hurt!

 

[Carabella]

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my other post...

Amazons are also notorious for displacement biting.

If there is something (or someone) close by that upsets the bird, he's liable to bite YOU, because he can't bite that other thing...

The trigger is THE THING. And if he sees it, and you are too close to THE THING. He will bite the crap outta you 99 times out of 100.

Was there a displacement trigger nearby when this happened?!

His cage is the only thing I can think of. His wanting to be left alone to go back to it, me being too oblivious to figure that out. I was thinking quiet bonding time, he's thinking uh-uh, not so much. :/
It was quiet, my husband and our two dogs were in the kitchen, the lights were dimmed. He came out and stepped up on his stick just fine. I sat in my chair holding the stick with my left hand on my knee and just rested my right hand lightly about 8 inches from him. He hunkered down and swayed, walked over and just when I thought he'd just nuzzle, he chomped down.

 

[Birdman666]

Okay, I can think of a couple of scenarios for that one:

(1) he was tired, and grouchy, and didn't really want to be there.

(2) he was in the mood to chew on something, and your hand was just there. He was chomping on it, the way he would a tree branch (Believe it or not, it happens with zons.) See: Not tame, didn't know not to do that, above.

I'm guessing it's one of those two.