Behaviorist

[Minzer84]

So, just got home from work, thought I would give you a cliff notes version of my 2 hour behavior appointment...I think the doctor knows NOTHING about birds, as he looked stuff up online, printed it out, and read it to me. Also, he would then come up with ideas on what to do in response to Iggy's behavior, then read one of the articles, which would totally contradict what he just said, and then change his mind to match the article. He prescribed Prozac for Iggy, to get him through "mating season" (which he says lasts through the summer?), which I still don't know how I feel about...

His overall solutions are: clicker training, Prozac, more stimulation, having a time out cage, creating a bridge when he misbehaves (screaming = I make a novel sound and then leave the room until he stops), covering his playgym and making it into a treat, making his cage exciting at night so he'll want to go into it, not covering his cage at night, and using a stick to pick him up.

I dunno, some of them sound like good ideas, and I will try them, but I really feel like this guy knows tons about cats and dogs but nothing about birds... he has an Amazon on a seed diet who he allows to drink coffee...I don't know, also I was supposed to get my student discount, but instead got charged the full $329, for a guy who printed crap off of the internet, which I could have done myself Not prepared for that.

I guess that's enough complaining for now, just thought I would update all of you.

 

[TexDot33]

*COUGH* *COUGH* quack! *COUGH* *COUGH*

Ya know, I feel really badly for you, you were so looking forward to this guy and he turns out to know nothing about anything ...

Some of the advice is sound ... "time-outs" for misbehavior, ignoring him when he screams ... but seriously, PROZAC for birdies? C'mon now ... did you happen to mention to this guy that you have tried a lot of these techniques?

*cracking knuckles* You want I should take care of this guy for you boss?

 

[Minzer84]

Yea, I'm pretty disappointed, but I guess that's life. I have the prozac, but I haven't figured out how I feel about it...I'm against drugging an animal to make it be nice, but I'm also against getting mauled by my bird every time I look at him. I'll have from now till the time I get back from Utah to think about it, I'm just so torn.

I did mention that I've done a lot of these things, but again, he was just reading me articles, so I guess it didn't matter.

 

[Redballoon]

I am not sure about the health system in your country, but if you get the Prozac prescribed for yourself it will be much cheaper to buy. To buy a months supply of Prozac for my dog is $86.50 a month, So I just got a prescription for myself and its only 6 bux a month for the same stuff. Humans are subsidised by the Govt in Oztralia, but animal arent. Its the same stuff, So on that premise I have told the doctor that chopper the dog is also having some erectilte Dysfuntion problems so I can viagra at the same rate.... poor dog.

I am sorry you got a dud behaviour guy. I bet he had your money spent before you left the office. Common sense seems to be the thing that will get you there in the end. I hope the bird can be patient enough till you figure out what makes him tick. I know it will be worth the effort.

 

[pheobus]

Minzer I feel bad about what this guy turned out to be because you were expecting real results from him, I think we all were. I don't know what to say, I 'm mad after reading what he advised you and the money he demanded of course! Why giving medicine to a healthy organism? If I were in your shoes I wouldn't give prozac and I think that he was just going for the money.. Let's listen to what the others will say today who probably are more experts than me. Don't worry we'll come up with something at the end.. :33:

 

[NicoleN]

Well one thing I would definitely do is tell someone that he is NOT an avian behaviorist so they can fix that issue right away. Maybe you can prevent this guy from screwing over someone else at least.

Probably just try out all of the techniques and see what might help.

 

[darkchi]

If I were you I wouldnt pay the guy either... .agrue it
You told him you tried thoses thing and he provided services that you could do your self. Well I guess that is up to you, but I wouldnt pay it at all. If you paid someone to fix your house and they came sat around drank coffee all day went home and sent you the bill, would you pay it? If you did you would be short a lot of money and still have a broken house... or in your case broken birdie.

And as for the drugs... I say stick with the duck tape. :30:

 

[Redballoon]

If she jax up the best she can expect is more of the "same" help for her money.

Once your cash is in the hands of a "health proffessional",....It aint coming home.
Ring him up and tell him to google the word "fraud" coz were on our way over.

 

[TexDot33]

"lets see, lead pipe - check ... metal knuckles - check ... baseball bats ... um, well ... ok, since I have about 1/2 dozen for the season I can spare one - check ... 1 pi$$ed off /macaw - check ... Minzer, you grab Iggy, make sure he's hormonal and lets pay this QUACK a visit!!"

 

[Peta]

OMG, I'm mad as hell here, I just can't believe this guy is calling himself a behaviourist. Right now I don't even know what to say, I'm stuck for words that are suitable to write here.

If you haven't paid this jerk yet then DON'T he hasn't done anything for you that you couldn't have done yourself, or anyone of us for that matter. I'll come back to this when I calm down a little bit.

 

[Peta]

I took a look at the other post that mentions this Nicolas Dodman (sorry but I just can't bring my self to call him the D.r word) fella, it sounds to me like he is one of what we call over here a telly doctor, look all lovely but don't have a clue what they are talking about, he was probably given a script to learn before he went on the tv.

If he wasn't a bird behaviourist then he shouldn't have even said he would see you, he should instead have given you the name of another behaviourist. Usually these people will be looking at you and the bird not the putor screen.

His Solutions:- Clicker training, well yeah thats great, and it works wonders with mine, but first you need to have the confidence to either offer the bird treats food or head scritches, he hasn't come up with anyway for you to get that close to Iggy with your fingers yet. Also Iggy needs to understand what the clicker means for it to take any effect.
Creating a Bridge, again another great way of doing things but again, the same would apply as the clicker training.

Hey I just worked it out, you fill him up with the prozac then do the work on him. The only problem I can see with that is, do you keep him dosed up on th prozac or let him come out of his drug enduced calmness, in which case I would run for your life.

and using a stick to pick him up.

This just had me in stitches, what did he think you were gonna offer him your fingers

Some of these ideas of his sounds great, and I really hope they work but he just didn't seem to look at what you were saying to him. The Prozac worries me, I would phone an avian vet up and ask them what they think before even attempting to give it to him.

I am so sorry that you have had to go through this I was really hoping that you would have a great behaviourist who could offer you some solid reason why Iggy has become this way. I'm sorry to go ranting on, but I was just so mad.

 

[karen]

How infuriating is that...U have so much more knowledge and empathy ..he should be paying u for tips.
I would challenge him if I was u.
Prozac..jings in humans it can excaserbate fellings of anxiety initially making people really quite high. Im have seen women being treated for PMT become aggressive..Im sure Red will have a comment to make about that
All other material I read said cover or move to quite room and ensure 12..14 hours sleep a night. Especially during breeding season.
Go with ur gut Minzer I have every faith in u.

 

[Minzer84]

Thanks guys. Starting with the good news, I called up his secretary today who quoted me the original 40% discount price, and she said that she would talk to the doctor and get back to me. Hours later she called back and said that she would fix it with accounting and refund me the 40%...so I'll be paying the $192 instead of $320 something. I still don't think it was worth almost $200, but I'll take what I can get, I already paid, and he did spend a lot of time with me, whether or not it was worth anything. (I wish I had your balls, Chi, and tell him he's not getting money, lol)

I didn't cover Iggy last night, and he seemed ok with it...I'm kinda wondering whether or not that's something I want to do though, I'll have to research it a little more on my own (for free!) and decide. I haven't given him any drugs yet, I'm really struggling with that one as well...I just don't know how I feel about it and so many people have said it's a bad idea. It would only be until the supposed breeding season was over (end of summer according to him)...he kept telling me about a study with parrots and prozac and how only one died of unrelated hypocalcemia, and the rest were fine. So I don't know, I'll take my 2 weeks in Utah to decide I suppose. A lot of people have mentioned, as Red did, that I should just take it myself and the whole problem would be solved

I am pretty upset that he made himself seem like someone who understood avian behavior, and clearly does not, but I think that's past the point now. He never labeled himself an avian behaviorist, and his books are on dog behavior, but I figured that he understood behavior of animals, including birds, as he led me to believe. You live and learn I suppose. Although in my first e-mail to him, I did ask if he knew any one who could help if he couldn't, and he seemed like he was confident enough. I think he's interested in birds, but kind of used me as a learning case.

Thank you all for backing me up, and routing for Iggy and me all along, I think I'm going to try to teach him new tricks and stimulate his mind and give him something to focus on and see if that releases some pent up energy that may turn into aggression...and pick and choose other things that may work from my "experience" with this guy. If I need any backup with this guy with metal knuckles and the like, I'll let you know, I know that the forum would be a force to be reckoned with

 

[Christy]

I'm glad that you got at least some of your money back Minzer. I felt so bad when I read the post about the experience knowing you were so excited about it. Iggy should appreciate all this hard work!

 

[Peta]

I think he's interested in birds, but kind of used me as a learning case.

I think theres the problem, he's INTERESTED in birds, ya know I just kept thinking about this and each and everyone of us here are interested in birds, but how many of us would even consider seeing someone as a behaviourist. I know I wouldn't Still makes me angry to think of what he's put you both through.

I think I'm going to try to teach him new tricks and stimulate his mind

I think thats a brilliant idea, let us know how you both get on with this.

We are with you all the way, and certainly rooting for Iggy.

 

[darkchi]

(I wish I had your balls, Chi, and tell him he's not getting money, lol)

Nah, not me. I am a last min chicken :39:
I would send my mommy to do it for me... she is evil LOL

 

[Eclectica]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the so-called bird expert! My best bet would be that you consult with a good zon breeder, one that knows his birds and specialize in them, and try to locate your local bird club. You can usually get that also from a good breeder that is with a parrot club, there is alot of people who own these birds that can give great advice for free, or direct you to a real bird specialist. Just my two cents.

 

[Minzer84]

Yea, I'll have to look more into it when I get home from my next trip, which starts tomorrow, and goes through July 3rd...then I'll try to find something around here...it doesn't seem like there are many breeders or bird clubs around here though.

Anyway, I'm going to Utah (houseboat on Lake Powell) for the next 12 days, I would kind of rather stay at home with the babies, but oh well. Chi, make sure you keep Tex in line so he doesn't feel neglected. Peta, try to keep everyone's spirits high in my absence, I know how difficult it will be

See you all again in 12 days! :heart:

 

[TexDot33]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with the so-called bird expert! My best bet would be that you consult with a good zon breeder, one that knows his birds and specialize in them, and try to locate your local bird club. You can usually get that also from a good breeder that is with a parrot club, there is alot of people who own these birds that can give great advice for free, or direct you to a real bird specialist. Just my two cents.

What great advice, why didn't you post that sooner?!?!?! Better question - why didn't we think of that too?!

... Chi, make sure you keep Tex in line ...

HA! Better women than she have tried and failed there has really only been one who can keep me in line!

 

[Eclectica]

I googled, i dont know in what region you are, but these people can maybe tell you where the nearest bird club is in your area.

www.parrotpages.com/clubs/massCage.htm - Massachusetts Cage Bird Club.

www.netpets.com/birds/birdclub/regclubG.html - Also a few on there.

Cant seem to find any breeders on the Net for you but i'm sure your local avian magazine will have alot of breeders and maybe a club or two.