Bad Seeds! And a vet visit!

[noodles123]

Do you use a bird probiotic? I put my U2 on Benebac (1/4 tsp up to 2x daily)---your bird is smaller so it would need less, but good bacteria can help out-compete the bad and it also keeps yeast at bay.

 

[Laurasea]

Do you use a bird probiotic? I put my U2 on Benebac (1/4 tsp up to 2x daily)---your bird is smaller so it would need less, but good bacteria can help out-compete the bad and it also keeps yeast at bay.

No I haven't before, I've read some on it...benebac like the dog one? Or is there a bird one? Where do you get yours noodles?

 

[Scott]

I would echo the notion of visiting a different vet. You should never walk away with a feeling of emptiness and uncertainty. The vet was either having a bad day or is detached and uncaring.

 

[LaManuka]

We are not amused with that new vet that’s for sure!

 

[ChristaNL]

I am so sorry you had to deal with a new (and not improved) CAV and a carsick bird as well (they always look SO miserable when that happens).

Did you just do a vent/cloaca-swab or also one from the skin (front of backside)?
(or was it throat?) I always get confused -it seems to differ per vet.
(They always go for the rear end here ).

I hope everyone is settling down again and maybe even start to feel better.

 

[Laurasea]

Well I can't stop crying.... Her cultures all came back negative. But Ta-dah is Definitely sick... Vet is thinking aspergillosis from bad food. But need to spend another 300 or more for sending a serology out to Miami for Aspergillosis, and blood work, informed treatment is long and expensive. I'm dealing with my own medical disability and limited income . I'm already nit paying bills to have paid for first vet visit... I'm overwhelmed am going to try a different deal with this and figure out the

 

[LaManuka]

Oh Laurasea I’m so very sorry to hear this but where there’s life there’s still hope! Does your vet offer a plan where you could pay by the month?

I don’t know anything else constructive that I can say right now, but I fully understand your heartache. Ta-dah is such a joy and I pray that you can find a way through all of this. Your forum flock stands with you

 

[noodles123]

I get a powdered form from the vet "Bene Bac Bird Powder 2oz" is what it says on the prescription bottle sticker----I do up to 1/4 tsp 2x daily...You would need less. It is about $20 and it lasts me a few months!

 

[noodles123]

SOOO sorry
I hope the vet is wrong, but a lot of times, if it is that, it means that their immune system was lower for other reasons (the mold that causes it is literally EVERYWHERE in the environment)...

 

[Laurasea]

We are going to do around of doxy first, then see... originally the vet didn't think she was sick, I asked for cultures. Her exam was normal, gram stain normal, throat, cloacal and fecal culture normal. She is eating, pooping Normally, but taking naps and when napping appears to have slight tail bob....she is not sleeping at night till I go to sleep at ten or eleven because vshe begs to come out. She stated that when I got the quakers as she seems to want one on one when they ate asleep. I've tried covering her and having one on one during the day..so I don't know if naps are because of this??? We get up here at six thirty, do she had only been getting six and half or seven hours sleep. The dogs wake us at 430 often as some outside critters are causing them to freak. We have owls that can outside window and armadillos that make a bunch if noise digging and in the bushes...lordy I'm tired all the time...I don't know if I'm seeing a tail Bob because it's there ..or because I'm so afraid from the bad seeds....she had not lost weight she is never fluffed, after flying I don't see tail bobbing, I only see it when she is sleeping....and she didn't used to sleep during the day...

 

[noodles123]

That is not enough sleep for a bird to have a strong immune system. 10-14 is the range I see most. Can you get an air purifier (non-ozone/non-ionizing)---that will help clean the air and it will produce white-noise...YOU DO NOT WANT THE IONIZING/OZONE PRODUCERS...
Mine is a Veva with a hepa filter. I love it and it is cheaper than many---purchased off of amazon.
Also, do you have a cage cover? Some birds are prone to night-frights (which can be dangerous) but you may want to research that.
In terms of sleep for my bird, I take calls outside and I use headphones when watching TV in the evening.....I KNOW she needs sleep, so I work around it to the best of my ability----she is a different bird when sleep falls under 10 hours...SERIOUSLY.



How is your humidity and do you use something like F10 SC (yellow, NOT green) when cleaning? If you don't I would start...Not your fault, but this does kill things on a level similar to Bleach (without the harmful effects)---It is avian safe and VERY cheap when diluted...I do 2 ML to 17 oz of water and that is pretty dang good at killing stuff---much more concentrated and you are looking at sterilizing surgical equipment (actual use). The bottle it comes in is tiny, but it is mighty (makes a TON)...
You might ask your vet about nebulizing with it --DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME--- but vets have historically used it to nebulize and control aspergillosis in birds. AGAIN----THIS IS NOT A DIY PROJECT!!!!!!!!! BUT, it has been done with success by professionals.


In terms of humidity, air that is too dry can cause issues and air that is too wet can promote mold. Look up the recommended humidity levels for your species and buy a cheapo thermometer/humidity reader at Wal-mart/Tesco/whatever you have (mine was under $4.00 and it works). From there, consider getting a dehumidifier or a humidifier depending on the levels..With a humidifier, you MUST clean it religiously, as the water can harbor bacteria. I would only use distilled water and I would clean it daily with F10 SC (not the green kind).

 

[Laurasea]

Noodles I will do all you suggest. I know shes not getting enough sleep and I'm trying to get her too... She lives spending time with me at night, before the quakers we slept in so it evened out, but now they start screaming around sixish ... It very dry in my house, very humid outside. I just don't know what to think....but we will bstsrt the doxy, then depending, and heaven help me find a way all the further testing... So please add her to your prayers if you pray, or positive thoughts if you don't..

 

[noodles123]

I will of course!!! I hate that you are going through this!

If you do the humidifier, keep it at least 10 feet from the air purifier, as they will counteract your efforts if used too closely.
Make sure your humidifier is teflon free (or at the very least, that you never let it run out). I got mine in the baby aisle at Wal-mart...It is a cool mist one, but the mist is produced by a heating element. When it gets dry here, I run it all day and then I refill at night--play with it on a weekend to ensure that it does not run dry while you are out.



Get some f10 sc off of the internet (yellow) and a 1 ml medicine syringe from the pharmacy (mine have all been free)---Mix this up in a chemically resistant spray bottle---you can google dilution ratios depending on your needs. HONESTLY, it is cheaper than any other cleaner I have used, but it will cost roughly $20 for the tiny bottle of concentrate-- just know that it will last a long time....I did the math and it is a TON cheaper than gallon jugs of Windex (which is not bird-safe).
I really hope things get easier!!! Ask the vet about the probiotic too and work on getting SLEEP for the bird first and foremost--that is huge!

 

[EllenD]

Okay, wait a minute..you said her breath/beak smells "yeasty"? Did this vet do a crop-flush and then a culture of the flush? And the chorhexidine spray is simply Hibiclens, where exactly are you supposed to spray it? This vet did a real number on you and your bird...

If your bird does in-fact have a yeast infection (presumably in his crop due to the smell, that's a very common sign of a yeast infection in the crop, which usually isn't picked-up by a fecal culture or even a throat culture), giving him Doxycycline will make the yeast infection 100 times worse and probably kill him. Why did the vet prescribe the Doxy specifically? Did they actually find a positive bacterial culture somewhere that it will treat? Again, never give an antibiotic on a "just in-case" basis or on a "guess", as if it's actually a fungal infection (yeasty smell) the antibiotic will only kill what healthy bacteria he has remaining throughout his GI Tract and allow the yeast to go crazy...

I would go out and buy a good Probiotic right now, whether he has a yeast infection or not, if you're giving her an antibiotic, as they tend to cause a secondary fungal infection anyway, and if he already has a yeast infection, the Doxycycline is a really bad idea...

Yes, Benebac is the same for dogs, cats, birds, etc. Or, you can go to any Petco and buy a bottle of powdered Qwiko Avian Probiotic for $10 that you sprinkle on his food once a day, but if he's not eating his food then the Benebac is better because you can give it to him directly by-mouth, which I think is better in this case anyway...

And as far as Aspergilliosis, is he coughing, wheezing, is his breathing raspy, etc.? If not, and a throat culture was negative, then I doubt it's Aspergilliosis; did they do an x-ray to look at his lungs?

The yeasty-smell is a tip-off, that only occurs when it's inside of their crops and they're constantly breathing the smell out of their beaks...If this is the case, he needs both a Probtiotic and an Anti-Fungal; I'd say if he still has that "yeasty smell" coming from his mouth/beak, that's your culprit, as that can't be anything else...

 

[EllenD]

I forgot something too...If the vet is truly worried about Aspergilliosis or some other respiratory/lung disease/infection, giving the bird oral antibiotics is very inefficient, and Nebulization gets the meds right down into the lung tissue, and works extremely quickly, so you'd know very fast whether or not that's the issue...however, if this is only a guess and he's not having any coughing, wheezing, raspy breathing, etc., then I'm not sure why they're thinking it's Aspergilliosis, as it's extremely symptomatic...

 

[Laurasea]

EllenD thank you. I was worried about yeast her featheres smell like yeast not sure if her breath. Firstly they told me yeast doesn't show up on a gram stain which is an out right lie ! Vet agreed she smelled like yeast and had me spraying her with dilute chlorhexidine three times a week. I said if feathers have yeast and she pretty s her featheres doesn't she probably have yeast in her body. Vet said nope, no yeast on culture. Her only symptoms are sleeping more, slight tail bob when sleeping....and smelling yeasty..I wanted anti fungal but was told nope no sign of yeast. Except she smells of yeast!!!!!!!

 

[Scott]

You mention Ta-dah's vet is certified avian. I would be perplexed by the diagnosis and seriously consider a second opinion. An ethical vet would understand and transfer imaging and lab results as needed.

 

[EllenD]

Okay this is horrible...first of all, you shouldn't EVER spray Chlorhexidine all over your bird's body or any other living creature's body, as it is well-known to cause blindness if it gets in the eyes, deafness if it gets in the ears, and severe damage to any mucous-membranes it comes in contact with!!! It's Hibiclens, if you're familiar. It's used as a great wound disinfectant and protective barrier from microbes during surgery (like Betadine used to be), but it's extremely dangerous when it comes in-contact with any mucous membranes, the eyes, or the ears...So there's no way you should be "spraying" it all over your bird's body...You can Google this yourself to see what I'm talking about...

Secondly...Why did this vet prescribe the Doxy? Did he get a positive gram-stain/culture for a bacterial infection? If not, why did he prescribe an Antibiotic at all? If it's "just in case" or whatever, then I'd stop, as again, if your bird smells yeasty, he most likely has a yeast infection and antibiotics can make it much worse. You need to find another CAV and get the test results/records sent to them, and go from there. By the way, a yeast/fungal infection will show-up on a gram-stain under a microscope, but only if the culture/swab was taken from the source of the infection. So if your Vet did the gram-stain from a fecal sample, throat sample, etc., but the yeast infection is in his crop, then he wouldn't have seen it...Also, sometimes if the yeast/fungi is in the early stages, it has to be allowed to grow, so it wouldn't show-up on a gram stain, you have to plate it and grow it...However, if your bird already smells like yeast (sour smell, can't mistake it), then it's not in the early stages...

In the meantime, please get some Benebac or Avian Probiotics and start giving them to your bird daily, as they will help to treat a yeast/fungal infection, as well as to protect him from the antibiotics making a fungal infection worse...

 

[Laurasea]

EllenD I thank you. All for members who responded I thank you all. This CAV has me so mad. I don't know why doxycycline was prescribed, it definitely seems like oh well try this
When I would like to treat the yeast.
Ugh I'm still so very worried and stressed and frantic to make sure Ta-dah us ok. I have stated the probiotics, and the doxy, will stop the spray. I turn off all lights save a nightlight and cover her cage. TV on mute. Back to sitting with her in the sun. Ta-dah is improving mostly. Her energy has skyrocketed! She is eating fantastic. Tail bobbing slightly more???? I've seen it be worse, but now she is on gaurd like why ate looking at me all the time! Putting the house on dark lock down per Noodles, and probiotics per Noodles And EllenD, started feeding Harrison pellets which everyone ate as if they were candy on the very first offer,! It's hard to read the main ingredients and be happy tho milliet sunflower seeds and peanuts beeing the main ingredients in the pellets! I know they add the proper balance of vitamin and minerals to that ... anyway they eat it do it's not wasted at all , eat their veggies great and get healthy seed mix. I think Ta-dah will kick this, either from the sleep the meds or the probiotics. When I don't see anymore tail bobbing is when I will wait being a ball of tension. I thank everyone who is helping and any how will help! It's good to have the group mind!!!!!

 

[Scott]

Seems Ta-dah has turned the corner, hopefully improvement will continue!