Baby Amazon not walking after nail trim - please help

[n1cktm]

Hi everyone:

Just for some background we recently brought home a new Amazon baby that is currently 7 weeks old and has been doing great. She was very perk, upbeat, and has a great personality. About a week ago or so we noticed she was having a dry sneeze with no discharge and decided to take her to an avian vet.

It turns out that she was fine and the sneezing might be due to her fledging and dust created by the breaking of the sheaths of her newly growing feathers. During the visit we also had her nails trimmed as it was hard for my wife to handle her. The baby did not respond well to the nail trim while at the clinic.

When we brought the baby home we noticed that she did not want to stand at all and would fall limp on the floor of her container and lay on her stomach. She would still eat when we hand feed but with a diminished appetite.

The next day after feeding her and putting her back in the container we saw that she tried to walk but was very wobbly with her legs. It's been 30hours after the nail trim and our girl is having trouble walking. She is able to stand up which is a huge improvement from yesterday but she cannot walk without falling over. Also when we take her out she clenches her claws and does not always release when being put down. Before she would always grab on to our fingers when being taken out. Her appetite is diminished but is still eating. Before she would love to walk and explore but now she is having problems balancing and cannot walk without falling over and using her beak and neck to pick herself up.

If anyone has advice we would really appreciate it as we are worried sick.

Do we take her to the vet tomorrow? Is there anything we can do?

Thanks so much!

 

[Echo]

Can you look at her feet and nails? Did they file or cut her nails? How short? Do you have a picture?

 

[n1cktm]

Hi Echo, thanks for responding!

They clipped and filed her nails, I am not sure how short they did it as this is our first baby Amazon. Here are some pictures to look at let me know if these are helpful or I can try to take some others.

 

[Echo]

The nails seem to be fine. You said she didn't respond well to the nail filing, how so? I know that sometimes if they get too close to the quick in the nail and the bird bleeds, it can be painful for the bird for a while.

However, your bird is not weaned and this is your first bird? Do you hand feed properly?

 

[henpecked]

The first thing that comes to mind,,, you need a new avian vet. Why clip a 7wk old other than to bill you for something!!! That's just wrong. I raise amazons and i'm amazed. Where are you located? It sounds like she'll be fine. Has she flegded yet? You say "her container" , she should be perching by now. I'd move to a cage or something that has perches. BTW awful dark feet for a DYH , how about a pic of her beak and cere.
PS forgive me, welcome to the forum. loads of good info here about amazons, hope to see you around.

 

[Echo]

Henpecked is right about the filing. I raise Conures and don't clip their nails until they are older (10-12 weeks). It's better for the baby to have nails to help in perching too.

 

[n1cktm]

Echo, Henpecked-thanks so much for responding!

This is my first bird yes. My mother in law has a DYH and a Blue fronted Amazon so I had the opportunity to take this baby. I admit that the timing was not perfect as my mother in law was not checking the nest regularly for some reason and the baby was around 3 weeks old when we pulled her.

I had a few breeders show us how they hand feed and have watched some videos but before this incident the baby was doing AMAZING. She was eating more and more every day, was very inquisitive, and exploring/walking a lot.

I'm located in Atlanta.

I have the baby in a large tupperware container with holes drilled across the top (off the bat I am thinking its 12-15in ft wide, 2in long, 12-15 in height. I am estimating the baby is around 7 weeks old but hard to be precise as we do not know her age as my mother in law does not know exactly when she was born.

Prior to this incident happening I was getting ready to introduce a perch into the container as she was perching very well on my finger and always wanting to climb to greater heights when we had her out feeding.

She still has blood feathers with sheaths around them and there is a lot of feather dust as they are still in the process of breaking open.

I know the situation is not ideal as I thought there would be more time to prepare and read up on the species instead of being surprised one day that a baby bird was born but we have been trying to do our best with getting up to speed. We have been very diligent making sure she is eating every 6-8h as the crop empties.

Prior to the vet clipping her nails, she was doing great and maturing fast but this feels like the first day we pulled her from the nest and it looks like a setback as she is no longer walking the way she was. She now no longer has a tendency to get out and explore when we take her out and when she sits on top of my wife's lap she does not hang on with her nails and we have to keep a hand on her to keep her from falling over.

IS there anything we need to do as she is still not currently walking but really trying to walk, falling beak first or sideways and picking herself back up with her beak. She also clenches her claws even when being put down on a flat surface. Eventually she will unclench them.

I will get some pictures of her for you guys tomorrow.

Do I need to see another vet or is there anything else we can do?

Thanks so much for the feedback, we are really losing sleep over this.

P.S. as for "not responding well to the nail trim"-she was screaming and wriggling a lot. The 'assistant; trimmed her nails instead of the vet...which really angers me when I think back to it. I was really against any trimming or filing whatsoever but it was really hard for my wife to handle her as she had put some holes into my wife's hand..When asking the local avian petstore where the woman claims to have been raising amazons/parrots for 20+ years and currently has a bunch of babies she is hand feeding + feedback from the avian vet I gave in and thought that might be fine since they know better than I do, being a first time owner. Definitely the worse decision I have ever made.

Is it a concern that the baby is eating less and not walking/falling so often. How long does something like this take to resolve?

PPS - Do I need to go back to a different vet?

 

[Echo]

She really shouldn't be in a container with holes across the top firstly but a cage with low perches. The container doesn't have good ventilation.

The fact that you have noticed such a change in her behavior and food intake warrant a Vet visit yes.

 

[Echo]

Ps thanks for the pictures, she's beautiful!

 

[henpecked]

Thanks for the pics. I can see the BFA x DYH now. The first few pics had me wondering ??? I'd think the nail clip should get less painful in a couple of days. She should be happier perching and taking some of the pressure off the nails. I could see where a flat surface might be painful. At 7wks they should start to fledge(learn to fly) usually at this point there is some "slow down" in weigh gain, this is an aid to flight. She should be ;flapping"around and active. Do you wiegh her? Get a digital kitchen scale and weigh her every AM before feeding. This will help you discover any health issues before it gets to be trouble. Loads of good threads in this section.

 

[Merlee]

Welcome to the forum.

This is a great place for advice, but did you know there is a parrot club in Atlanta? I have not joined yet because of the distance. There are a few recommended avian vets there and wondered which one did this? At some point I may have to find one there and would like to be prepared for disagreements regarding pet care. Lol. I have come to learn to speak up when I do not agree with something even when I feel intimidated because the vet staff are suppose to know it all.

I feel bad for your little one. There was no reason for the nail clip at this age. When your baby recovers, look into some coarse textured perches so this can be avoided in the future. Since you live in Atlanta, you can get a lot of your bird supplies at the monthly bird fairs which will save some money.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Welcome to the forum.

What a SWEET baby Amazon you've got there.

The more pictures the merrier, I could look at Amazons for hours.

You can NEVER go wrong with henpecked's advice.

 

[n1cktm]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Henpecked: initially I was told to keep her in a container and use a low setting heating pad on one side until she is fully feathered. She still has some grey baby feathers on her back so I thought I had a bit more time. I wish I really found these forums sooner.
What size cage should I be looking to move her into? Can you please provide some dimensions/suggestions? She is also making use of the side with the heating pad, will she be able to regulate her temperature ok?

She is fledging and flapping her wings a lot, especially when she is out.
What I am worried about that she is eating with less energy/enthusiasm. She would eat much quicker and larger portions before the nail trim.

The vet weighed her at 355g and we weighed about 30h later and she was about. 350g. Do amazons have less of an appetite as the fledge?

Also what material do you recommend for perches, can something from petco work on short notice? With her falling over a bit I was worried that she might get hurt in a rage as she is having difficulty walking and doesn't hold on to us with her claws when we take her out to feed like she used to. I've also noticed her putting of her fingers under the other two when standing. Also she used to stretch her wings standing up but now does it while laying down.

Merlee thanks for the tip. Do you have any additional info about the parrot club in Atlanta and where the monthly fairs are held? This was an avian vet in lawrenceville, we live about 20mi out of Atlanta.

I really can't believe this happened, I really hope she can make a full recovery.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Merlee]

I like the concrete or lava rock perches myself, but my birds are adults. When your baby is older and can perch really well, I suggest the plastic ones that are textured like sand on the sides and smooth on top. Parrot feet can get sores from using textured perches, but they do work great. I examine feet often and rotate different perches as needed. It beats toweling and everybody stressing out over nail trims.

You can get the perches at any pet store. Just be sure to get something that is size appropriate. I suggested bird fairs because you can save a lot of money in the long run and are offered more choices in bird supplies, especially cages and pelleted food.

 

[henpecked]

Yes they seem to eat a bit less when fledging, their weight doesn't increase during that 3-4 day period either. You really need to weigh in AM before their 1st feeding to get accurate data. I hate to recommend a temporary cage but you could move her to an adult size cage if you have one. I'd keep the perches low in the cage for now. I use a "ferret" looking cage for the unweaned,fledged zon babies at my house, but the important thing is to give her some perches. You could use plain dowels from the hardware store at this point and time, maybe 1" dia would be good. I use natural pershes made from dragonwood but i have tons of that local here. I'm sure the handling she recieved from the vet tech might have traumatized her a bit. Hopefully your good loving will fix that in short order.I'd keep handling her and see what works for you.

PS as an after thought, do you think she might have been injured with the rough handling? Maybe call the vet you took her to and explain the issues you now have. If i were that vet, i'd say bring her back in and let's have a look. Of course i'd be right there at all times and voicing any concerns i might have.

 

[n1cktm]

Before seeing the vet, the receptionist came in to weigh her and she seemed like she did not know what the heck she was doing. The baby was already scared to be handled by a stranger plus when she took her out she just didn't handle her right and our girl started flapping her wings a lot against the container we brought her in. The vet saw her right after though and looked at everything. I didn't see any blood or bruises on her but that first day she just layed on her stomach and legs stretched out and didn't want to get up which is not the same position she normally lays in with her feet under her. The next day she did start trying to walk but keeps falling down. I think she is worried to just pick up her foot and then put it back down, she kinda picks up her foot leans forward and then ends up falling.

Do you think the appetite issues are due to the trauma or the fledging? She was flapping her wings for at least a week but was still eating hungrily and with evergy. Now it takes us much longer to feed her and she does not seem to be very interested in the food and eats with less enthusiasm.

At what point should we be really worried? How much weight is it ok for her to drop?

As for the adult cage is that the best case scenario? There is one I had in mind but it would take several days to get it as I have to order or? Would it be more beneficial for her to get out of the container tonight as I can buy a cage after work. I don't mind spending some extra money if it helps her recover, I just want her to get through this.

Also do you think she can regulate her body temperature just fine now and doesn't need the heating pad any longer? The other thing I am worried about is she might get hurt in a cage as she tends to fall when walking and the cage will have a harder surface than the container, we have her on a sheet with a towel at the very bottom.

Is the falling/forgetting how to walk due to the trauma or do her nails just hurt? I did not see any bleeding when they clipped them. She now uses her neck, beak, and wings very often to steady herself and aid her walking. She can stand by herself now which is a huge improvement from day1 but she can't walk from the standing position without wobbling or falling.

Thanks again henpecked, really appreciate your time and encouragement.

 

[Echo]

They also eat less when they are ready for more solid food and less formula. Are you only feeding formula? Someone who breed Amazons will be able to help you more on this.

Yes there is a concern for injury if put in an adult cage and she can't use her feet properly. You can also screw perches through the plastic container barely above the bottom towel and see if she tries and succeed in perching first. I would get a weaning cage first until she has mastered the perching and keep the perches really low. You can also put a towel at the bottom of the cage, cover it with paper towels/newspaper and change daily to keep clean. A cage will also make her practice her climbing abilities and exercise her feet. For obvious reasons, don't get a tall weaning cage.

Hard to say if the problem is the feet or something else. I would really see a different Avian Vet to rule out any serious problems.

And seeing her picture, she doesn't need a heating pad anymore.

 

[Merlee]

You asked about the inability to walk. Is there a pattern? Certain foot? OMG, I would be in such a snit about this and worrying if something was broken due to the incompetence of staff. I would have called the vet's office and voiced everything you have said here.

My husband and I just trimmed our bird's nails yesterday so I know how tough it is to do the job without getting bitten. Please call the vet's office to see what can be done. It is responsible for any injuries due to incompetent staff. Please keep us informed.

 

[Pajarita]

I think she might have twisted something (ankle? Tarsus?) because her nails don't look that short to me and they are pointy so she should have enough traction there to perch and walk normally. Is it possible that the technician stretched out her legs too much or bent them and caused some type of sprain? Because her hesitation to walk and her falling down could be from pain... Have you phoned the vet and told him what happened to her right after you took her there? I would. And I would ask for a bit of metacam (anti-inflammatory and pain killer), too. But I would not take her there again. Birds nails can get a bit sharp but that's the way it is with birds because they do need them for a firm grip on the perch.

 

[henpecked]

The nail clip should not effect her walking, especially if they didn't clip them too close and no blood is visible. I'm worried about injury or splay leg due to not perching. The way you describe her not laying natural ,worries me. like Echo suggested , at least screw a perch to her "container" , she should be perching at the point and time she is fledging. The weaning (eating on her own) should not be for at least 5-6 wks away. When they do fledge it's not uncommon for them to lose a few grams, 10% at most (in your case 34-35 grams).They will also not eat as much at one time due to their crop shrinking ( makes it hard to fly with that huge crop full, they need to follow mom and dad around to be fed and learn how to eat). Yes she should be fine without the heating pad, but i wouldn't get her wet or in a draft. The exception might be if she was injured or sick. then the heat pad would be needed.I really feel you should contact the vet and explain the issue , it's not normal, somethings wrong.I can understand not wanting to go back to the first one but at least contact another and see what they think you should do. I'm not a vet, and don't want to mislead you, when in doubt get a vet's opinion. I don't know if i answered all your questions but don't be afraid of asking again . We want it to work out almost as bad as you do.We love our zons and know how you feel.