Apartment first parrot: Pionus or Poicephalus?

[Draker]

Hi all, sorry for my english, but I'm from Italy, where there aren't anymore a lot of active parrot forum, so I will make my question here
I'm finally near buying my first hand raised parrot. I've never owned a bird, I live in a city, in an apartment with my parents. I'm a university student so the house is empty some hours a day. I've been documenting for a parrot for two years, a middle-zise one, and I think that a Pionus or a Poicephalus would be good for me, as their known to be docile, not too noisy (relatively for a parrot) and suited ad first-parrots.

But I'm having troubles on choosing the right species. I know that personality is really important in any parrot, so let's try to make specie's generalization or based on experiences.
Based on breeders' availability, I came close to this species:
-Meyer's Parrot: it seems the most "cute and cuddly". It's the littlest of the list, a thing that may make him the most suited for apartment and most accepted by my parents. I liked his personality traits I read on internet: even tempered, docile, playful, cuddly, and likes human contact. But he has a downside... I like its shape but it's poorly coloured, it's not the tipical beautyful and colored parrot, and this doesn't convince me at 100%.
-Senegal ha the same "pros" of the Meyer but in addition he's more colorful. But I haven't found a breeder yet and I'll probably need to wait till their breeding season in winter.
-Pionus: they're known to be so docile I fear they're even too much... I explain: documenting on the internet the idea I made about Pionus (hoping to be denied) is that they are lazy, not so intrested or curios but mainly indipendent and "on their business", and they don't like contact or being held. In addition somebody says Pis have a musky odour not everyone likes.
Among the Pis I'm thinking about(it's a matter of color and dimension):
-White capped Pionus: I know it's the smallest Pionus and that's good, but again I'm not 100% convinced by it's look and colors.
-Blue Headed Pionus: maybe my favored, I love their colors. On the other hand it's the biggest one of the list, and so maybe the less manageable in apartment.
-Lovebirds: my parents are on the side of "starting with a lovebird", because it's really small and so more manageable and easy for apartments. I'm full of doubts about lovebirds: on the internet I read they're really time demanding, suffer from solitude and more noisy... essentially: are lovebirds good for apartments and for beginners? Do their little size make them less demanding than other parrots? I don't like them very much because I would have liked a parrot more... "parrot".
-No to cockatiel: I don't like them.

In conclusion: I like Pionus more because of their colors, Meyer is smaller and more maneageable for apartment, I like Blue headed more than White Capped but BH is even bigger..:
- In order to make a decision based on personality (generalizing species) what are the differences in behaviour between Pionus and Meyer? I would like a parrot that is cuddle and likes contact, but also quite independent while alone.
- How should I take the final decision: based on the parrot I like esthetically, or on the specie's personality, or size and "apartment suited" (does the differences in size between these 3 tipes of parrot create difference in their cares?)

P.S. I know that be based on parrot's look and colors may seems superficial, but I know too that it will live with me for a long time, so I want to be 100% sure of my decision

 

[ZephyrFly]

Just some things to consider (as I do not own or have ever owned any of your named bird species), ANY parrot regardless of size needs attention and care. You should be able to give a lovebird the same amount of time as you'd give a blue headed pionus. And honestly that should be at the bare minimal of 1-2 hours a day (more at weekends/whenever available).
The only major factor that changes with the size of a parrot is the size of the cage they spend their day and night in. You should try and aim to the biggest space you can allow for you and your buget.
Personally I see nothing wrong in perfering some birds over other in looks, but as you seem to know, you may find all the birds you like the look of don't match with the generalised species characteristics. Not all Meyers will be cuddly, not all lovebirds are quiet or easy, not all parrots suit apartments not even the species that are meant to.

I leave the rest to people that know those species better but I hope you get what I'm pointing out.

 

[Draker]

Just some things to consider (as I do not own or have ever owned any of your named bird species), ANY parrot regardless of size needs attention and care. You should be able to give a lovebird the same amount of time as you'd give a blue headed pionus. And honestly that should be at the bare minimal of 1-2 hours a day (more at weekends/whenever available).
The only major factor that changes with the size of a parrot is the size of the cage they spend their day and night in. You should try and aim to the biggest space you can allow for you and your buget.
Personally I see nothing wrong in perfering some birds over other in looks, but as you seem to know, you may find all the birds you like the look of don't match with the generalised species characteristics. Not all Meyers will be cuddly, not all lovebirds are quiet or easy, not all parrots suit apartments not even the species that are meant to.

I leave the rest to people that know those species better but I hope you get what I'm pointing out.

Yes, I know that all parrots needs attention, even the smallest one. But I thought that smaller parrots can be less "demanding" because of smaller cage, more manageability in apartment, smaller excrement, weaker bite, less destructiveness, or are this characteristics relevant only when there's a bigger difference in parrots' size and not of just 4/6 cm?
Are you saying me that, except for a slightly bigger cage, there aren't really difference of manage in the size range of parrots from a meyer to a blue headed pionus?

 

[itzjbean]

Hello and welcome!! It's great that you're reaching out first before purchasing your bird! It seems you have done a lot of thinking about this. Birds are great!!

That being said, I have no experience with either species you're interested in, but if you're looking for a less demanding bird, less waste, less harsh of a bite, and forgiving of mistakes, go for a budgie or a cockatiel. They are relatively quiet as well (mine are, anyways), though they do, like many birds, chirp the most in the morning and at evening times.

Was there a reason you don't like cockatiels? I love them!

 

[coopedup]

I too have been researching, but for a second bird, so my requirements are a bit different.
We live in condos as well so noise and space are concerns, here's where I am on the birds you've posted. Lovebird--one person bird, not great for a family situation but they are cute. My next door neighbor has one--it bites everyone but her chosen person. If your family (current and future) are a concern, weight your research toward compatibility with people/birds/pets. There are never any guarantees, each bird is unique, but the general profile is a good guide.

Pionus. Yes, the blues are striking but I ruled them out early on in my research, dont remember why but probably because they are known to be less interactive than I want.

Meyers. They were my pick over a senegal. I prefer the Sennie size, but the Meyers is reputed to have a more even temperment, especially around other birds. Senegals can be very bird-aggressive. Since this is a lifetime commitment for you, consider if you think you'll have a second bird, or how you would manage two who dont get along.

My top two picks, also Poi's, were Brown-necked parrot and Jardines parrots. They lack color and flash but they make up for it in personality. For what it's worth, appearance and talking ability are not even on my requirements list. Choosing a bird on superficial characteristics and not based on overall fit with your home and lifestyle is shooting yourself in the foot. Its like dating a pretty girl with a rotten personality---how long is that going to last? You want "marriage" material, not a hot date. My current bird is an Eclectus, known to talk well and be very flashy but the reality is that my boy is a plucker and usually half bald, has no tail, and he's not said a word to me in the year Ive had him----and I wouldnt trade him for anything! Best of luck in your search.

 

[greytness]

Don't believe that because a bird is small it will be fine in a smaller cage. On the contrary. My Meyers is very active little bird, and uses every square inch of her cage. She even hover flies inside it. Any smaller and I think she'd become stressed. Always go with the largest cage that you can find and afford.

Both Meyers and Pois are on the quiet side and are very good choices for apartment living.

 

[Kiwibird]

I have no experience with poi's or pi's, but I did adopt my amazon when I was 19. While I never went to college I did used to work a full time job before I got married and moved out of state. Never had issues with him in regards to living in a small apartment, being left alone during the day nor with adapting to various life circumstances, including moving numerous times and long road trips with him. He does happen to be a rather quiet and not excessively messy individual. Proper training has further curbed unwanted behaviors, such as excessively loud vocalizations, biting, destructive habits and he is potty trained to only go in his areas (you wouldn't not housebreak a indoor dog or cat. Parrots too can be taught!). Though, even the best trained parrot is, at best, still only a few generations out of the wild and will never *quite* be a domesticated house pet like a dog or cat. They are undomesticated animals and will always have a touch of "wild" still in them.

When I worked full time, I went straight home every night. I couldn't do anything social until he was asleep because while he adapted to being alone all day, he still needed my attention at night (also needed to be cleaned, toys made, food prepped etc...). That's a major something to consider as a university student- you WILL need to sacrifice some aspects of your social life to give a proper amount of attention to your parrot after/between classes as well as provide other care needs such as a fresh foods based diet (time to prep!) and toys (to keep occupied during the day when you aren't there, and parrots destroy/grow tired of toys quickly). When you get a job, if/when you ever have roommates, move in with a partner, marry or have children, your parrot will still need the same level of care as always. And in every life decision, these long lived creatures must be considered- Will that new rental allow birds? Does my new S/O get along with the bird? How can the bird cohabitant peacefully with a new baby human? What if you need to move a long ways away? Even things you might not think about like "I can't buy these non-stick pans, ever, because they'll kill my bird" or "does this curling iron have teflon, better contact the manufacturer because if it does, it can kill my bird". That brings up another point- your living space will need bird proofing to be safe for your bird, regardless of species. You have to learn bird safe habits, like always putting toilet seat lids down, never opening windows or doors or having fans on when the bird is out and locking the bird up when cooking.... Smaller birds, due to small size, need even more precautions than bigger birds (getting stuck in small spaces, drowning in a big cup of water or soda, getting stepped or sat on etc...). It's kind of like bringing home a naughty attention starved toddler, only a parrot will never mature past the mental age of 2 and will need and rely on your constant care, patience, understanding and love for the next 20-60+ years (depending on species).

P.S. Amazons also make that "musty" scent when happy. I sniff my bird when he does because it smells so nice. Sound strange? Get a bird who makes the smell and you'll soon be a bird huffer too There's a bunch of us out there who like the smell of our birds. In fact, I've never heard of anyone who didn't like that musty happy scent!

 

[Draker]

Ok, thank you for all the answers! I will reply with a bit of order:

Hello and welcome!! It's great that you're reaching out first before purchasing your bird! It seems you have done a lot of thinking about this. Birds are great!!

That being said, I have no experience with either species you're interested in, but if you're looking for a less demanding bird, less waste, less harsh of a bite, and forgiving of mistakes, go for a budgie or a cockatiel. They are relatively quiet as well (mine are, anyways), though they do, like many birds, chirp the most in the morning and at evening times.

Was there a reason you don't like cockatiels? I love them!

Thank you! I've been informing and documenting for a looong time, and now I feel the need and the time to make the next step
Well cockatiels are so sweet but I don't like cockatiels because... I don't like them, their colors and their appearance. I know this can seem superficial, but they don't convince me esthetically... they're not the parrot I imagined I would have owned

I too have been researching, but for a second bird, so my requirements are a bit different.
We live in condos as well so noise and space are concerns, here's where I am on the birds you've posted. Lovebird--one person bird, not great for a family situation but they are cute. My next door neighbor has one--it bites everyone but her chosen person. If your family (current and future) are a concern, weight your research toward compatibility with people/birds/pets. There are never any guarantees, each bird is unique, but the general profile is a good guide.
Looks like we have similar requests so a confrontation may be useful. Now I live with my parents, in the future who knows, so yes family is a concern as I don't want a one person bird but a bird than can interact with family members, friends and so on... So all Lovebirds are one person? Maybe your neighbor didn't properly socialized him when Young... Is this the only "cons" of a Lovebird?

Pionus. Yes, the blues are striking but I ruled them out early on in my research, dont remember why but probably because they are known to be less interactive than I want.

Exactly, this is my big doubt about Pionus: how interactive are they? Are they interactive ore they just spend all the time daydreaming? (because a parrot is for definition playful and funny). How did you get to the conclusion they're not interactive?

Meyers. They were my pick over a senegal. I prefer the Sennie size, but the Meyers is reputed to have a more even temperment, especially around other birds. Senegals can be very bird-aggressive. Since this is a lifetime commitment for you, consider if you think you'll have a second bird, or how you would manage two who dont get along.
I will consider this too. What do you think about my toughts on Meyer's lack of colours and flash? Is it a stupid doubt?

My top two picks, also Poi's, were Brown-necked parrot and Jardines parrots. They lack color and flash but they make up for it in personality. For what it's worth, appearance and talking ability are not even on my requirements list. Choosing a bird on superficial characteristics and not based on overall fit with your home and lifestyle is shooting yourself in the foot. Its like dating a pretty girl with a rotten personality---how long is that going to last? You want "marriage" material, not a hot date. My current bird is an Eclectus, known to talk well and be very flashy but the reality is that my boy is a plucker and usually half bald, has no tail, and he's not said a word to me in the year Ive had him----and I wouldnt trade him for anything! Best of luck in your search.
I LOVE Jardine, they are so beautyful (how can you say they aren't flashy?) and they would be on my list but I have some concerns on them: the breeder said they're expensive, they're bigger than the other Pois (how does jardine's size compare with a Pionus size?) and their beak looks huge and powerful for their size, doesn't it? I can't find enough material on jardines, can you tell me about their personality and why you like it?
For your observation, as I said, I know that being based on parrot's look and colors may seems superficial, but I know too that it will live with me for a long time, so I want to be 100% sure of my decision, and so after realizing that Pionus and Pois are the best to fit me, I want to choose among these the best specie in general personality and in look as I can like it.

Don't believe that because a bird is small it will be fine in a smaller cage. On the contrary. My Meyers is very active little bird, and uses every square inch of her cage. She even hover flies inside it. Any smaller and I think she'd become stressed. Always go with the largest cage that you can find and afford.

Both Meyers and Pois are on the quiet side and are very good choices for apartment living.
Please can you share with me more about your meyers' activity level, why you chose a meyers and the good and the bad of yours?
Looks like you know more about Pis and Pois and apartment living so if you want to share...

I have no experience with poi's or pi's, but I did adopt my amazon when I was 19. While I never went to college I did used to work a full time job before I got married and moved out of state. Never had issues with him in regards to living in a small apartment, being left alone during the day nor with adapting to various life circumstances, including moving numerous times and long road trips with him. He does happen to be a rather quiet and not excessively messy individual. Proper training has further curbed unwanted behaviors, such as excessively loud vocalizations, biting, destructive habits and he is potty trained to only go in his areas (you wouldn't not housebreak a indoor dog or cat. Parrots too can be taught!). Though, even the best trained parrot is, at best, still only a few generations out of the wild and will never *quite* be a domesticated house pet like a dog or cat. They are undomesticated animals and will always have a touch of "wild" still in them.

When I worked full time, I went straight home every night. I couldn't do anything social until he was asleep because while he adapted to being alone all day, he still needed my attention at night (also needed to be cleaned, toys made, food prepped etc...). That's a major something to consider as a university student- you WILL need to sacrifice some aspects of your social life to give a proper amount of attention to your parrot after/between classes as well as provide other care needs such as a fresh foods based diet (time to prep!) and toys (to keep occupied during the day when you aren't there, and parrots destroy/grow tired of toys quickly). When you get a job, if/when you ever have roommates, move in with a partner, marry or have children, your parrot will still need the same level of care as always. And in every life decision, these long lived creatures must be considered- Will that new rental allow birds? Does my new S/O get along with the bird? How can the bird cohabitant peacefully with a new baby human? What if you need to move a long ways away? Even things you might not think about like "I can't buy these non-stick pans, ever, because they'll kill my bird" or "does this curling iron have teflon, better contact the manufacturer because if it does, it can kill my bird". That brings up another point- your living space will need bird proofing to be safe for your bird, regardless of species. You have to learn bird safe habits, like always putting toilet seat lids down, never opening windows or doors or having fans on when the bird is out and locking the bird up when cooking.... Smaller birds, due to small size, need even more precautions than bigger birds (getting stuck in small spaces, drowning in a big cup of water or soda, getting stepped or sat on etc...). It's kind of like bringing home a naughty attention starved toddler, only a parrot will never mature past the mental age of 2 and will need and rely on your constant care, patience, understanding and love for the next 20-60+ years (depending on species).



P.S. Amazons also make that "musty" scent when happy. I sniff my bird when he does because it smells so nice. Sound strange? Get a bird who makes the smell and you'll soon be a bird huffer too There's a bunch of us out there who like the smell of our birds. In fact, I've never heard of anyone who didn't like that musty happy scent!

So amazons and pionus makes this scent only when excited and that's not a permanent odour? Is it strong? Well... I read of somebody ho really hate it ahah

I know that parrots are a life commitment and that they will change my life for long, but I don't want to believe that having a parrot will totally destroy my social life or my life in general, I don't think that all parrots owners (and people who owns demanding parrots such as cockatoos or macaws) doesn't have a life anymore... Am I wrong, maybe is it because after university, in a range of some years, when I'll work, I won't know exactly know how I would live?
On the other side, the biggest passion in my life are animals (birds among my fav) but I've never been allowed to have one... since now. And now I feel like the need to have an animal, for my passion, this makes me really want to share my life with an animal to create a unique and special bond with, and I think that special bond with a bird is unique and great. It have been a lot since I'm doing research for this..

 

[Draker]

Up up up up!

 

[Draker]

Up!
I want to add to my list another parrot, the last seen, the Caique:
- I really love their colors and like caiques (both black and yellow ones). Probably they are my favourite among all the other choices. The breeder said one Caique is quiet, they're playful and a bit more active than meyer or pionus, but still suited to my condition of "first parrot for an inexperienced owner which can live in an apartment". On the other hand I've gathered some controversial information over the internet on Caiques. Somewhere I read they're good for me(quiet, good as first parrot), somewhere else I read they're noisy, and most of all that their personality is problematic, with episode of aggression and not really mellow. So, as I have no experience my only source of informations are the breeder and the internet. The former says they're good, the latter gives me controversial information. How are Caiques and what should I do?

 

[RavensGryf]

I've never had a Caique, but I can tell you about experience with 2 Poicephalus (one for going on 23 years) and have experience with 2 different Pionus.

To first answer your questions about Pionus - how they compare to Jardine's size, the smallest Pionus specie (white capped) is a little bigger than most Lesser Jardines. Pionus range in size between approx 200-300 grams like the size of the very smallest Amazons.

Pionus are related to Amazons, and also have that musty odor. I don't like the smell, but it is only puffed out of the nares upon some sort of strong emotion such as excitement, fear, anger, etc. otherwise they just smell like any other parrot at other times.

As far as being "lazy" or "not interactive", it's not that bad... it just means they aren't hyper or all over the place like some higher energy birds are. They are far from lethargic though. My Pionus is funny, playful, loves toys, and social when he wants to be. They have about the same likelihood of being cuddly or not as an Amazon for example. I think his lack of being hyper makes him easier to handle and keep than some higher energy species that are smaller.

Pionus, at least the ones I've had, are not near as loud or noisy as you'd expect from a bird of their size. Raven would rather make noises and mimick than use his natural calls
____________

Then there's the Poicephalus genus. I LOVE Pois. They are about the only genus as a whole that can be both hands on cuddly and bonded to you AND not mind being independent when they have to be. They're super soft to touch (especially the gray colored species such as Meyer's, and my Red Bellied and Ruppell's). They have a softer voice than other species, and their loud call can be described as a whistle rather than a squawk. Poicephalus are known to easily become one person birds, and they do have an attitude. A real temper beyond what I've seen in other species. Also despite their body size being similar in size to a larger sun or maybe a nanday conure, their beaks (and especially males) are proportionately large, and they have an extremely strong bite. That is about their only down side they I could see. Overall easy. My two Poicephalus are very different individuals, and the smaller one is more active and a handful.

I hope that helps a little. Both genuses are going to be (generally speaking) less vocal than a Caique.

Really, I've found that whether or not a bird is a "handful" or not depends not as much on the size, but it's activity level and tendency to be mischievous or not. I've even had large birds in an apartment before. It all depends on the individual how suitable they are.

 

[coopedup]

If you want flashy and charming...try an Eclectus