Angry Bird (No, not the app)

[stevekip]

We have a 5-year old Queen of Bavaria (Golden) Conure named Milo, who we got from a breeder just after he had been weened. A DNA-sexed male, my wife has been his favorite since the day we brought him home.

When he was younger he was friendly to everyone. For his first two years we had a Labradoodle who he seemed to enjoy however, the dog passed away. He also used to sit on our housekeeper's shoulder as she vacuumed. About 1-1/2 years ago we brought home and finished hand weaning a White Bellied Caique and the two became fast friends. However since our dog passed away, the Golden has become very territorial. He still loved my wife and he was good with me, but he began to dislike ever other human.

When Milo was about three, we noticed that his lower beak would grow out malformed. It required us taking him to our awesome avian vet, Dr. Joel Murphy, who would anesthetize Milo so he wouldn't get stressed as Dr. Murphy used a Dremel tool to re-shape Milo's beak. We would need to have this done about every six weeks and at $150.00 a pop, got a bit pricey.

Recently we met a young man who trimmed wings and nails and actually was able to lightly shape Milo's beak without issue. When it came time to have Milo's beak done again this past Monday, we had the man come to the house to again shape Milo's beak.

While I wasn't home, my wife assisted the groomer. This did not go well at all, which brings me to my question.

Since Monday, Milo has been extremely vicious to my wife, biting her on the face and hands, getting down on the floor and going after her feet. While my wife is strong-willed, this will become a major problem if Milo's aggressive behavior toward her doesn't stop.

We called Dr. Murphy, who said that bird's have VERY long memories (Milo doesn't apparently remember all the love and attention my wife gave him for the first 5 years). He suggested just having her slowly give him his favorite treats in the hopes that eventually he will earn back her trust.

We are fearful however, that if Milo DOESN'T correct his behavior, we would have to consider re-homing him, which is just making us sick thinking about the prospect of that.

Looking for any suggestions please!

 

[LaManuka]

There’s very few things that make one more heartsick than the thought of having to rehome a bird because you feel like you’ve run out of options. It’s worth discussing with your vet because some clinics offer behavioural/training classes which may assist you in understanding why the bird is doing what he’s doing and what you can do to manage the situation. It’s as much about training you as it is about training the bird - my vet clinic offers them and I think I’m gonna need it!

There’s a wealth of knowledge and insight which will no doubt come your way from the members here. Rehoming your bird may result in worsening behaviour in his next home (and potentially the next and the next etc etc....) and as difficult as things may be I’m sure you wouldn’t want that for him. I only have experience with a cranky hormonal green cheek conure so it may not be relevant in this case but I understand the intense emotional aspects involved and you have my sympathy!

I hope you all get some help soon and thank you for reaching out, the people here are the best!

 

[noodles123]

I know that you are probably just frustrated, but I have to say,

If you re-home him over this, then your bird joins the statistics of birds whose owners couldn't handle them for what they are (yes, your bird reached sexual maturity years ago, but this type of preference shifting is not uncommon and birds are not domesticated- they are literally wild animals that we try to force into a mould).....It just makes me sad to hear that after some rough patches, re-homing is an immediate (or even distant) possibility..I am assuming you researched before purchasing a bird (and therefore knew that aggression etc are not uncommon at some point or another).

You wouldn't return a problematic child, so I would say that the same logic should apply here. YOU CHOSE THIS--YOUR BIRD DID NOT ASK TO BE RAISED IN A HOME WITH PEOPLE.

If you re-home, your bird will struggle even more (because whether he is showing it or not right now, YOU ARE His FLOCK!), so you will basically be adding on additional trauma/ behaviors and passing on a problem that you (unintentionally) created (NOT DUE TO LACK OF LOVE, BUT DUE TO LACK OF KNOWLEDGE). When you made the choice to adopt, you must have considered that things would not always be smooth-sailing, and just as you wish that your bird remembered the good times with your wife, you must remember the good times with your bird...

How often have you screwed up in your lifetime, and how often were you forgiven by your parents/wife etc?...keeping in mind that you have the cognitive capacity of an adult human and your bird is more like a perpetual human toddler with autism.

Instead of blaming your bird, consider that your knowledge and you/your wife's behavior (however good your intentions) may be the root of the problem. Birds are super complicated, so you aren't the first to feel confused...

First, stop taking the behavior personally. I know this is easier said than done, but just because your bird is mad, doesn't mean she will always hate your wife. I just spent the week getting bitten my my 10 year old umbrella cockatoo because she was mad at me for leaving town for 3 days (even though I left her in an identical cage, with people she likes (my parents) in a semi-familiar setting (their house)). She never bites, but all week long she has been super bratty with me (biting etc). My bird is annoyed and it will take time for her to process. I know for a fact she still likes me! She just is processing the situation (how dare I abandon her etc etc). Today, I was home all day and she was happy as a clam, but that is because my absence is what was upsetting her to begin with. BIRD TIME IS SLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWW...

Birds' love is not unconditional and that is one of the cool (but difficult) things about them.

ESSENTIAL QUESTIONS:

How has your wife interacted with the bird historically?
Did they sit together with lots of pillows or blankets? Did they snuggle? Did she pet him like a cat?
Have you looked into ABA (Applied Behavior Analysis) and ABC charting?
How often does your bird get exposed to other people?
When trimming your bird's beak in the past, who was present?
How does your wife get along with the other bird?
How many times has your bird been conscious during the trimming?
Has it been done at your house before (and if so, was the room/location the same)?

There is just SOOOO much going on here that could be upsetting your bird and I hope your are as sympathetic as possible, given all of the human variables....

The most simple possibility (I REITERATE, POSSIBILITY) is that your bird feels betrayed by your wife. Dremeling breaks is really not a good idea. It can (but not always) also be painful to the bird and it causes dust to go airborne which can lead to medical complications in birds. Hand-filing is better and less risky.

That having been said, imagine if someone you trusted put you through a bit of seemingly arbitrary hell (like, holding your hand to a flame or SERIOUSLY scaring the crap out of you for no apparent reason). You probably would be fearful around them too. Remember, your bird doesn't know WHY your wife did what she did (the bird just knows that someone trusted assisted in a traumatizing and potentially painful event). Your bird doesn't understand that his beak was too long. He just (probably) is now associating her(your wife) with the fact that she let some scary person come into their home, helped the scary person hold him (bird) down and didn't protect him (bird) from what very well could have been a painful experience (regardless of the pain, it was certainly terrifying for your bird). Your bird sounds like he really trusted your wife a lot, which likely makes the "wound" sting even worse.

Again, this is the most simple possibility, but there could be layers of issues all intermingling simultaneously.

SIDE NOTE: Why is his beak malformed? What testing has your vet done and what cause was attributed to these abnormalities?

I strongly suggest you determine the motivation (function) behind the bird's behavior. Once you determine the root of the behavior, you will be able to ensure that your behavior/reactions are not inadvertently reinforcing the aggression. To determine the function of a behavior, you can chart behavior using an ABC chart. Here is a link to a reply in which I wrote more details about ABA and ABC charts. ( SEE BELOW):

http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/77273-there-something-wrong-my-conure.html
The reply with the data about ABC charting is my second response to the OP in that thread (near the bottom).

YOU CAN WORK THROUGH THIS BUT YOU NEED TIME AND KNOWLEDGE OF BEHAVIOR---ABA WORKS!!!
My intention was not to be rude or mean within the first part of this post...I just wanted to make sure you understood what is at stake here.

 

[Laurasea]

I agree with Noodles. Your bird felt betrayed by your wife. Happy content birds grind their lower mandible, you usually hear this at night when they are going to sleep. It is rare that it needs grinding. I would start back at the basics , what food are you feeding, how much time out of the cage, does your bird get sunlight exposure outside, not through glass? What kind if perches abd chewable iteans does the bird have? Go back to trust building with Milo, because he feels very hurt and is smart enough to feel his human let him down in his own territory. I would be telling him what a prince he is, and bribing him with all his favorite treats.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Great input above.

May I share my tale? Bits and pieces of it may apply to you...


May I add some thoughts about expectations? I hope I don't sound preach-y. I also want to make it clear that I completely support all the great advice on training!
My bird is "difficult", and so I have expressed these thoughts so often that I made a cut-and-paste (below). Apologies to those of you who've heard it a zillion times!

My bird is pretty awful. He's a fun mimic and a real character, but...
Even after all these years, I sometimes find myself putting myself or my bird down... stuff like...
I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH THIS OR THAT.
WHY CAN'T HE BE SWEET AND NICE, LIKE THOSE OTHER BIRDS?
PEOPLE NEVER UNDERSTAND WHY I PUT UP WITH THIS.
Stuff like that.

Since he's fully flighted, the ONLY way I get him into the cage is to toss a chile pepper in and he flaps in after it. So food reward is a necessity for me. Time-out doesn't exist in the Rb's kingdom.
But the Rb is a parrot... in his particular case, one generation out of the wild.
I do all the right things, as much/well as I can, but in the end, I just LOVE my bird.

Some parrots are SO SWEET, some are NOT. I'm a bit JEALOUS of those successes.

I have lessened my psychological and physical wounds over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I gave in... and a lot of that has involved compromise. I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. Some will say I have let him get away with too much, and that's a fair criticism, but, well... I'm okay with it. I don't do stuff that makes him mad... I don't touch others when he's out; I rarely try to get him to step up onto my hand first. Hand-held perch first, then hand. In some ways, I'm disappointed/embarassed at having such a little monster for a pet, but he is what he is. I ALWAYS wear my hair down when he's on my shoulder, so all he can bite is hair. Really, I don't involve hands much... he doesn't like them. He seems to think the real ME is my head, perched on a weird moveable tree with questionable appendages.

Consequently, I have a Tazmanian Devil on my hands. I love him. I have no complaints, really. He's HIMSELF. And I'm MYSELF. And the result... check my Signature for videos. etc., if you like.
BUT THERE'S LOTS OF GOOD TRAINING ADVICE HERE... DO READ AND LEARN AND DO YOUR BEST!
Over the years, I have sometimes been very embarassed/downhearted/sad about having a pet that was so... out of my control. But it is my choice to indulge and adore him.

Finally, I accepted that I have an amazing half-wild being who shares my life! It's magic enough for me!

Parrot-owners usually wind up determining their own personal comfort level with various behaviors, and it's okay to be okay with that.

My main thought... keeping this bird, making it work, LETTING it work... has been among the greatest triumphs of my life. I kept him. No re-homes. I saved him from all that.

Yeah, he has spent more time in the cage than I'd wish. He can't seem to keep human friends other than yours truly. Everybody pretty much hates him.

But as much as it has cost me. I wouldn't change a thing.

I understand it may not be possible, but... I hope and pray you can keep the bird.

It's late and I have to crash, but I'll be back. I hope I've been reasonably coherent.

Thank you for posting, and caring, and reading.

P.S.
QoB Conures have always been my DREAM bird, as many here will know.

 

[noodles123]

GaleriaGila, I feel like I need to raise a toast to that post. WELL SAID.
There are many things that can change (given proper responses to behavior) but birds DO have personalities.. You summed it up beautifully!

 

[LaManuka]

Amen:smile015:

 

[Inger]

I never tire of reading your story, Gail. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GaleriaGila]

You're all very good and kind.

I hope we can help this angry bird, in all his imperfections, to keep an indulgent home.

We are all blessed to be able to address these situations.

I hope we help.

Maybe I chose my phrase poorly. Keeping the Rb hasn't been so much a great triumph as it has been a precious, sweet little victory among life's huge challenges.

Steve, I'd hold your hand if I could.

 

[Scott]

Wonderful advice above, have nothing practical to add, except.....

I'm assuming Milo will learn to at least tolerate your wife. However, in the future she ought not assist the groomer. This seems to be a case of displacement anger to the one person involved who is a constant.

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm lucky... my mitred conure requires beak trims as well. He got his beak injured in 2006, if I remember correctly, when he was 12 years old. He's 24 now and I've had him for nearly 12 years. I've been trimming his beak by myself ever since I got him. Only *ONCE* did I take him to the vet for it... and regretted it! Not that the vet did a bad job at all! But rather, we were both more stressed out by the vet doing it than me just doing it at home... because he sits in my lap, no restraint other than his head, while I trim his beak down. Not something I could recommend for anyone else.


I do have to agree with the others... Milo has associated the fear and distrust of the experience of getting his beak groomed with your wife so he has lost that trust. He might get over it in a few days, or a few weeks. Likewise, he may never get over it unless you go back to square one and treat him like a neglected, rehomed bird.... despite the fact that he isn't one.



One thing that may help is to put Milo in a low traffic area of the house, then set up a couple of cups or bags of his favorite treats on both sides of the cage - but about 5-10 feet away. Have a treat cup at the front of his cage, preferably a metal one. This way, any time someone goes to walk past the cage, they can pick up one of his favorite treats - attempt to walk by the cage without stressing him out, drop treat into cup, and keep going. This can help to teach him to look forward to people coming to his cage again.

During this time, you don't really want to let him out, either. Keep him cages.

Once he's fine with humans around his cage, then start working on target training through the cage bars. Learn to teach the behavior in such a way that you can get the desired behavior (targeting his beak towards a target stick - can be anything! Does not need to touch it!) without getting bit. If you can't give him a treat directly by hand, that's okay! Offer it by spoon or drop into a treat cup! Get him targeting all around the inside of his cage before you even attempt to let him out of the cage and continue target training through the cage door and around the outside of the cage.



I would also recommend looking through this thread - starting with the video in the first link #8. It's a free video - you can donate/pay to watch or use a coupon code to watch for free.

http://www.parrotforums.com/training/72250-free-training-resources.html

 

[ChristaNL]

Apart from all the other great advice...

is has only been a few days since your bird had a traumatic experience ..
how about the old-fasioned "just give it time".

No idea what went wrong, so maybe the bird had a painfull beak/feet now and is just taking it out on "anyone" -> so it is not even personall.
May he is not just attacking your wife but asking her for help, and frustrated and in pain will bite her as a last resort in trying to make himself heard.

If something went wrong that way- why isn't he on some kind of painrelief meds?

(NO idea what happened exactly- you did not tell us, so I am guessing)
When Sunny came back from the CAV she was hurting a bit- we all knew that would happen after examining her wingmobility to the max while she was knocked out, so instead of being off ballance for a few days afterwards (as the greys were) she has been acting like she hated me for at least a fortnight. But at least I know why


Most birds when in pain or other discomfort (even not enough sleep) will not be themselves and act out. That has absolutely *nothing* to do with the interaction with humans (like or dislike).

So look at the bird as a whole first, humans and relationships second - what actually *is* wrong/ going on here?
(If your wife feels guilty she will change her ways - the way she looks at the bird, moves etc. that also might unsettle the bird ...)


BTW- hugses for the humans involved as well, maybe they need a bit of healing-time too.



(sorry if I am nagging, but with only half a backstory, it is not easy to guess correctly)

 

[Anansi]

Excellent advice given in this thread! Monica and Christa's takes resonate most closely with how I see it. There are a lot of unknowns, here. Milo may simply be in a less than charitable mood after his experience, a mood that could wind up fading after a few more days or even weeks. It's early days yet to say for certain.

But in the meantime, the approach suggested by your vet, and more deeply expounded upon by Monica in post #11, would be the way to go. Bribery goes a long way with parrots. As does involving them in interactive activities such as target training. Don't give up. This need not be a permanent alteration of his relationship with your wife. Just be consistent with his training, and patient with his progress.

Here are 2 links I tend to give when it comes to biters. Take a peek and see if anything there works for you:
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/63988-bite-pressure-training.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

Hope it all works out. Please keep us updated, and don't hesitate to come back with any questions you might have. It's clear you and your wife love Milo. Given the relationship as you've described it that existed before the event, I don't doubt that you can get things back to where they were... or at least to a point from which you can work toward an acceptable situation.