Am I in over my head?

[Synoma]

Hello, thank you all so much. I have learned a lot already from these forums. I did have a few questions I didn't find answers to.

Little background
I took in 2 Lilac crowned amazons from a friend who couldn't keep them 2 weeks ago. They are a pair. My only background in parrots has been a little pionus I got 3 years ago after his owner passed away. He is very different than the amazons from what I have been reading.

So I had a few questions. They are very, very frisky. Quite often. Lol, and seem to be exhibitionists about it. They have been tearing stuff up near the corner also so I attached a nestbox yesterday just in case. I read that they are endangered so didn't want any eggs to be broken. She has been in it most of the day and he seems to be guarding it. I really don't want to mess anything up. Since I have no clue about any of this should I let her hatch her eggs if she lays them? Will she take care of the babies herself or is there anything I should do to help? I am really second guessing putting up the nestbox. I would hate to make a serious mistake. Should I take the box back down?

 

[Flboy]

Hi, what part of the world are you in?

 

[SailBoat]

Stop! Remove the Nest Box! The Amazons maybe ready for the results, you are NOT!

You need to separate the two Amazons ASAP! Yesterday would have been nice!

What is your want for these two Amazons?

 

[Synoma]

I am in the southwest US.
I cannot seperate them, they have been together 17 years and will not be ok seperated. I can definatly remove the nest box. What if she lays an egg? Should I give it to a parrot breeder? I just want to give them a home and take care of them.

 

[Synoma]

Will it ever be a good idea to let them sit on eggs? Everything I am reading says it is very important to help conserve the species. They have successfully hatched and raised babies before from what I understand. I was thinking if they ever did hatch any I would want to contact conservation groups to donate and help save them. It seems a shame to throw away eggs when they need help.

Also, why should I seperate them? They have never been apart. I would think that would cause them to be very very stressed out. Since they are already dealing with the stress of the move I don't think I should but want to understand why it is recommended.

They have settled in perfectly so far and love it here. They are very tame but I have not tried to pick them up yet. I am waiting until we know each other more and the hormonal season passes.

 

[SailBoat]

They maybe able to hatch and provide support to their chick(s). Note the word maybe! In the wild, these two would act as a team to gather what they need to support their chicks. But they are not in wild are they! They need to be supplied, do you know what they need? What if they leave the eggs, do you have the equipment to support those eggs? They will likely need help raises the chicks, do you know what is need and how to support them all?

Based on the above! At this point, you do not have the knowledge base to support this pair! Therefore, they cannot be allow to be together! Hence, separating is required. Now, you can set the cages next to each other, but you cannot allow them to mate!

The Good of the Species! That holds zero water based on the above! Without a knowledgeable Human, the chicks will likely die! Can you live with yourself if that happens!

Yes, it is nice to think about providing them to a group that will reintroduce them into their natural range. Before you let your pair mate, would it not be a good idea to first find such a group. To my limited understanding, I am not aware of a USA based group that is taking chicks from the USA to those natural ranges.

FYI: North American Amazons are all long past a natural Hormonal Season! If your Pair are Hormonal, they need to be brought out of that state. Get them into a dark, quiet place for 12 to 14 hours every night for the next month or two!

 

[Synoma]

You are right, it is better to wait. I don't know enough yet to take the chance.
I do supply them a great diet. They get pellets in the morning. Maintenance pellets now but when I got the nest box I got excited and ordered the breeder variety. At lunch they get fruits and veggies (corn on cob, green beans, peas, watermellon, apple, orange. Raw or cooked. At dinner they get whatever we have that they can eat. Lentils, rices, pasta, veggies etc. Before bed I give them a little seed/nut treat. They have pellets available at all times. They have cuttlebone and this multivitamin block thing. Lots of toys to tear up, branches etc. rotated.

I raise peafowl so have several different incubators and experience with different poultry eggs. 2 of the incubators are those little plastic dome ones that the lady I got them from said she used for parrot eggs. I do know they work on peafowl eggs. I have several types of brooders. I did raise some sparrow babies who's nest fell and my dog killed the parents. They still land next to us and say hi sometimes.

I love to learn new things so have been reading everything I can find about them. I also know a few people that used to raise parrot babies who seemed excited to give some advise if I need it.

Still unsure about seperating them. They have not been apart for 17 years though and have had no ill effects to date....

That's a good idea to research and contact any groups before making up my mind. I will get a cage cover to get them the 12-14 hours you recommend. Thank you for your help!

 

[LordTriggs]

You are right, it is better to wait. I don't know enough yet to take the chance.
I do supply them a great diet. They get pellets in the morning. Maintenance pellets now but when I got the nest box I got excited and ordered the breeder variety. At lunch they get fruits and veggies (corn on cob, green beans, peas, watermellon, apple, orange. Raw or cooked. At dinner they get whatever we have that they can eat. Lentils, rices, pasta, veggies etc. Before bed I give them a little seed/nut treat. They have pellets available at all times. They have cuttlebone and this multivitamin block thing. Lots of toys to tear up, branches etc. rotated.

I raise peafowl so have several different incubators and experience with different poultry eggs. 2 of the incubators are those little plastic dome ones that the lady I got them from said she used for parrot eggs. I do know they work on peafowl eggs. I have several types of brooders. I did raise some sparrow babies who's nest fell and my dog killed the parents. They still land next to us and say hi sometimes.

I love to learn new things so have been reading everything I can find about them. I also know a few people that used to raise parrot babies who seemed excited to give some advise if I need it.

Still unsure about seperating them. They have not been apart for 17 years though and have had no ill effects to date....

That's a good idea to research and contact any groups before making up my mind. I will get a cage cover to get them the 12-14 hours you recommend. Thank you for your help!

considering you're asking about these 2 means you are not ready for chicks. The reason they need to be separated is to stop babies hatching because then you have all of 3 choices. Sell them, keep them or kill them. Now I'm sure there are laws regarding exotic animals in the US. You're simply not ready to care for an entire family of amazons. Could you live with yourself killing newborn babies?

Put them in cages next to each other and let them have supervised time together (no sexy times!) unfortunately she's most likely already about to lay some fertile eggs. You'll need to get the parents away from the eggs for a few minutes and then one by one shake the eggs, quite vigorously. Then put them back and let mom sit on them until she gets bored of them. If you just remove them she will just lay more.

Please listen to the advice and separate them, you're only going to give yourself and your birds stress and heartache if you keep on

 

[Birdman666]

Well it sounds like they're a breeding pair, and if they're doing that, then they've already done the deed. There will be eggs in all likelihood.

And separating a bonded pair of amazons is going to cause significant emotional upset with these two. They are, after all, pair bond birds that have likely been breeding for awhile. I would disagree.

If it were me I'd expect chicks... and look for someone experienced with breeding issues to assist me.

Nothing wrong with parent raised chicks. But YES, you are in over your head, and you need help from someone who can show you hands on what to do.

 

[Synoma]

Thank you everyone for your help. I opted against seperating them. They are very much pair bonded. I got with a local breeder and talked to a few other local people experienced with amazons. For birds hatched and raised here it is thier normal breeding season. Slightly later but not by much. I guess it was probably triggered by a change in thier diet.

I got lots of advise, shared my setup and was advised to let my birds do thier thing. I have an incubator ready to go in case she does lay eggs and gets up after sitting them. In the case that that happens I will take them to a friend with experience. Same with if she is unable to care for the chicks. Brooder already ready to go, formula ordered, scale, etc. Lol, I was a little paranoid so arranged a backup for my backup to help me.

As far as legality in my state it is perfectly fine for owners to breed thier pet parrots. Commercial breeders need permits though.

I am going to hang out with a breeder later this week and learn how to do everything they can teach me. I did get some tips on things to add to thier diet to assure they have the proper nutrition but overall had a good diet setup.

I just hope this passes so I can start working with them to get them back and forth from the house to the nice aviary I have ready for them. I am sure I will prob have questions when that part comes.... I have been watching every video and reading every article and forum post that I can about everything amazon and parrot related. Tons of good ones from this forum. Especially helpful has been the body language thread.

Again thank you everybody.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Wow, you are in for interesting times. Disclaimer: I've never bred parrots and am just repeating things I read.

You know...the reason people say don't breed them is because we see so many posts from people wanting to know how to hand feed an abandoned baby. And it's not easy. Here are some possibilities. One, the female gets egg-bound and dies because the egg can't come out. Two, she lays eggs, and then they abandon them. Three, some chicks hatch and the parents pick them to death. Or they abandon them. Four, the parents raise the chicks and all is well.

So here's how you prepare: first you locate a good Avian (not regular) vet near you. Then you read up on egg binding and watch her carefully. Three you buy the incubator because when you need it is too late to order it, unless you can borrow one. Four, you find a correct formula mix to have a little on hand just in case, some small syringes and spoons, and a thermometer. If you do have to hand feed them - which will be every couple hours maybe - the formula must be exactly the right temperature. Too cold and it might ferment in the crop, too hot and it can actually burn a hole in the crop! If you heat formula in a microwave, you must be sure to stir it well and let it sit at least 30 seconds before you check the temp, microwaves can create local hot spots. Then you have to know how to feed them so you don't accidentally shove food down the air pipe. If the parents do a good job, make sure they have enough good diet and some extra calcium for mom starting right now. Go find the Harrisons Bird Food site, they will tell you exactly what kind of formula, pellets, etc to get and send it second day delivery. Fantastic info about parrot nutrition on their website also.

So you see there are many possible outcomes. Prepare for the worst case, and hope for the best. Oh, and usually scientist wouldn't reintroduce a domestically bred parrot/egg/chick to the wild because they could carry disease, have a polluted genome,or not be able to survive. That argument is often put forth by commercial breeders - preserving the species - but often they wind up breeding birds that had been unsuitable as companions and perpetuating an unfortunate gene pool.

Since you are doing so much research - there's something that would really help. If you copy the permalink for the best posts you find and send them to me or post them here...I'm putting up a website to connect people with good information and I could put those links up for others to use. If you find something useful on another site, tell me that also, I'll go look it up.

Good luck!

 

[Synoma]

The egg binding is what scares me the most. That's why I opted against just removing the eggs. She would just lay more which would cause a greater chance of eggbinding. I got her started on a calcium suppliment this morning and breeder pellets already ordered. My friend told me to weigh the babies everyday and take them from mom to bring to her house if they get distressed at all. I am also worried about them pecking the babies. They have successfully raised them before though thankfully so I hope will be ok. As far as feeding I will let mom do it or take them to one of 2 people I have lined up if any problems arise. I am also getting a lesson later this week in case I need to feed them before I get them to my backup and I already ordered formula to keep in case of emergencies. I already set up my incubator and cleaned up the brooder.

As far as the conservation part those are all great points. I think it's better to help increase the amount in aviculture than to send captive bred ones to the wild. I actually was refered to 2 people looking for possible pair bond mates for thier current LCA's earlier today.

I will give them plenty of daily interaction so they are good pets but will let mom do the early work of raising them until weening or shortly before so they have a better chance to be good parents.

I do need to give my vet a heads up, thanks for the reminder!

Ooh I'd love to help! I will start saving the most useful links. I am guessing you have the stickies already from here. Sailboat's was really helpful. My favorite vids on youtube are by user wingsnpaws. So helpful.

 

[StChelle]

That's awesome that you have support and that you are doing all the research to be as prepared as you can be. Good luck and keep us posted. Would love pics!