A rather unpleasant change of pace.

[blackhawk007]

So things had been going well with Ruthie for this first 7 days. I was mostly home all week with her while Jenna was at work. We have been trying to be as accommodating as possible and make this new transition as easy as we can for her. Now that the weekend is here Jenna has been around much more and they have been able to get some quality time in together. That is about when the problems started, though we are not sure if they are exactly related. Ruthie had started to lunge at me pretty hard a few times as I closed the door on her cage, but only to me. Then yesterday while on her tree stand she actually made hard contact with my hand 2 separate times when I reached towards her wing like I normally do. Now today I can't even look at her without her sticking up her wings and head feathers and making a very aggressive pose. The whole time this has been going on she would still step up for me and let me bring her around the house or to and from her tree. The last time I picked her up to go to the cage I did put on a heavy sleeve just in case, and she did take a shot at it. Then as I closed the door on the cage she pounded the heck out of the door with her beak as I closed it. If I even look at her I get the aggressive stance that is in the photo below. But when I take a closer at that time, I can see her actually shaking, fear maybe? I have been very clear that I will not get aggressive with her or punish her for any reason. I just try to go with the flow and try to keep a happy mood.

I'm am not sure what I could have done to change her like this. Especially after I have seen her handled by so many people on a few separate occasions. Again Jenna can touch her still but she will very rarely lunge at Jenna too. As some of you know, her tree is about 6 feet tall and is about 7 feet to the left of my desk. So when she is on it she does spend time higher than me, though not directly above me. Her old cage ceiling was about my chest level, and the one she is in now is over 6 feet tall. Do you think this is a factor? I have been ruling that out because Jenna is much shorter than me and Ruthie is still ok with her.

She has been eating well. She is loving the nuts and still tearing through the Zupreem pellets along with a few other varietys we have here. She has seen Teka on my hand from a distance and he constantly loves on me so I'm not sure if that can have an effect.

Do you have any corrective action for myself or do you think this is the natural progression into a new home. I am at a loss because she was so sweet and we really don't what to alter that.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Steve, I truly believe Ruthie is now testing you, to see what she can get away with. Even though I don't think she's 100% settled in yet, she probably feels comfortable enough to see how far she can go with her lunging and threatening postures.

Ripley's done that to me as well, and for me a firm "no" has worked. Also, when Ripley gets testy, I tell him "gentle", which he now knows. (Even though that doesn't ALWAYS work, he does get carried away at times.)

If Ruthie is on her Java tree, and doesn't want to be picked up, you could try getting her to step up from behind (backwards).

I should also tell you that Ripley actually got ballsier as more time elapsed. He's only been here for a month, and he and I both still have LOADS of learning to do.

On a sidenote, my Niko has his moments like Ruthie, too. But I am completely unafraid around him since I've had him long enough. Mind you "unafraid", NOT stupid. :54:

 

[plax]

Hi Steve... I mostly agree with Wendy, but I would add one thing. Ruthie may be establishing the first phase of an exclusive bond with Jenna. If that's the case, it would explain her aggressive posturing toward (and lunging at) you. It may be that she doesn't like the idea of sharing Jenna with you. Macaws can become quite jealous under certain circumstances, and they may even make attempts to punish their chosen human for a perceived act of 'cheating' on them for affections with another human. It's at least a possibility.

 

[blackhawk007]

Hi Steve... I mostly agree with Wendy, but I would add one thing. Ruthie may be establishing the first phase of an exclusive bond with Jenna. If that's the case, it would explain her aggressive posturing toward (and lunging at) you. It may be that she doesn't like the idea of sharing Jenna with you. Macaws can become quite jealous under certain circumstances, and they may even make attempts to punish their chosen human for a perceived act of 'cheating' on them for affections with another human. It's at least a possibility.

If this is the case what do you suggest? She we try one on one time for a few days? Decrease interaction for a bit maybe she will calm down? Its always the thing that you don't prepare for that happens.

 

[plax]

If this is the case what do you suggest? She we try one on one time for a few days? Decrease interaction for a bit maybe she will calm down? Its always the thing that you don't prepare for that happens.

Sure, try the one-on-one approach with her. See how that develops. She needs to realize that you are both going to be part of her life. Play games with her... show interest in her toys and play with them with her. Hand her treats often. Sing to her. Dance for/with her. Use baby talk a lot when communicating with her - they typically respond well to baby talk. When she does something aggressively undesirable, be consistently firm with appropriate responses such as "NO!" and "gentle" (or similar terms).

Keep in mind that she hasn't been with you very long and that she will go through some phases like this one before settling in completely. But I really think you and Jenna are doing an outstanding job so far!

 

[JJones1719]

Just to add my 2 cents.
Sorry you are going through this rough time with Ruthie.
Macaws can be a one person bird so it is possible that she has bonded with Jenna over you.

All is not lost if this is the case. Rather then see you in the same light as she sees Jenna, Ruthie must learn that both you and Jenna are the alfas.

I know i will hear a lot of feedback here but you have to remain in charge at all times, never giving an inch. Once a Macaws knows who the boss is in the relationship, the better off the Macaw and owner or owners are.

You must give time outs a try, they can be from the word in a firm voice (NO) to the removal off the Java tree and back in the cage for no longer then 5 min at a time, or if she bites or shows signs of aggression, then she must be placed into the cage and covered for no more then 5 min at a time.

After 5 min time outs, Macaws would have forgotten why they were given the time out in the first place.

The important this here after time outs, once the Macaw has calmed down and ready to join your world again, this is time for the rewards, give her treats for being good, reinforce the good behavior and let her know what is not excepted.

The sooner you perform these actions, the better off your relationship is.

Now for all of you that will have an issue with time outs, I would advise you that this works in most cases with Macaws. I am not advising in any way to harm a Macaw but sometimes hard love works. So if all fails, I have found with my own GW that he is the type of Macaw that needs me to be the alfa and we have a very strong bond with eachother because he does understand just how far he can push my buttons before I give him that time out.
Best of luck Joe

 

[JerseyWendy]

Now for all of you that will have an issue with time outs, I would advise you that this works in most cases with Macaws. I am not advising in any way to harm a Macaw but sometimes hard love works. So if all fails, I have found with my own GW that he is the type of Macaw that needs me to be the alfa and we have a very strong bond with eachother because he does understand just how far he can push my buttons before I give him that time out.

Joe is right! There are times Niko is REALLY wound up when it's time to come "OUT" of the cage. He tries nipping, and I give him some warnings, but when he persists, I simply tell him "fine, take a time out and stay in your cage." Minutes later he's calmed down and will peacefully step onto my hand on the second attempt.

The same applies when he gets carried away when we have cuddle sessions and/or play time together. He has landed a few good pinches, and I will first warn him, and then put him in his cage for a few minutes.

It truly does work.

 

[blackhawk007]

OK I have been taking the advice and have been putting it to good work. Today after I carried Ruthie to her tree I was able to approach her without issue and after an hour or so actually pet her again. After things seemed to be going well we finally had Jenna interact with her. We put all of the other animals up then had Jenna sit on the floor about 25 feet away. I set Ruthie on the floor and she took off running and jumped on Jenna's lap. She then shared quite a bit of food with Jenna. . Oh, she has stopped sharing food with me anymore, she now ONLY does this for Jenna. . I then sat on the ground about 10 feet from Jenna. Ruthie would walk my direction and then turn and run to Jenna's lap again. We did this for about half an hour. I then tried to get close and bring my hand near Ruthie. She was not having it at all. She went back too the same old aggressive posturing. I think we at least know one major trigger to try and avoid for a while. Ruthie will not let me interact with her while she is with her mate. The next time Ruthie got off Jenna's lap I had Jenna go to the bedroom and close the door. Ruthie ran around for a bit and then let me pick her up again. I consider this pretty good progress after such a challenging weekend.

The biggest issue now is that Jenna can't leave the room after a quality session like that or Ruthie will scream for Jenna. Its actually not that bad. Its just the first time we have heard Ruthie really make any noise that loud. A loud squawk every couple of minutes is very tolerable especially with a Mac. I dealt with it (by doing nothing) while Jenna was on the phone with her mom (who knows nothing of Ruthie). After a long break between squawks Jenna came out. Luckily Ruthie had her head under her wing and did not see it happen. She just looked up and Jenna was quietly on the couch. Ruthie looked for a sec and has been eating dinner ever since.


PS. Don't mind the tree. Its being converted from Amazon to Macaw.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Amazing progress again, Steve & JMarie!!! You both ought to be SO happy.

And I LOVE the pictures. 2 Eagle birds at the same time.

 

[plax]

Timeouts are one tool. But it's important to understand the cause of the behavior, and I believe you and Jenna have started to gain that understanding, Steve.

I really think you're on the right track. It's never a good idea to blindly utilize timeouts as a universal consequence because that would be merely addressing the symptom despite the causation. You can't quell certain inherent drives or urges by introducing a negative consequence. The most you will do is create opposing anxiety for the bird. From the bird's perspective it's a feeling of: "I can't help how I'm driven to feel, and when I act upon those feelings I am punished (ie, the timeouts) for the behaviors my urges compel."

I'm not saying timeouts are not a necessary tool at times - I use them myself in fact. What I'm saying is it's best to gain an understanding of what's actually occurring and incorporate a solution based upon that understanding. And I'm guessing that's precisely what you have in mind.

 

[cd4565]

Keep in mind it doesn't happen over night some times for months or even longer to understand and know how to react to your bird. It will happen just don't give up.

 

[WharfRat]

I have absolutely no issues using the time out method other than I don't use it enough. :54:

But as stated it is still early, my wife had a really hard time at first with Miri and it has improved immensely over time. It does take time and patience to move thru these things. I had issues putting Miri up for the night as well and have made remarkable progress with that. (Thank God!!!) I've gone from grabbing her beak to just holding my hand over her head and now it's progressed to when she sees my hand over her head she knows whats coming next! (my new move I haven't told anyone about yet) I have started bringing her to my chest and snuggling with her before putting her in her cage, it has made the transition from my arm to the cage MUCH MUCH easier with her and she gets that little "extra" at the end.

Now granted, I wouldn't try this if you were worried about getting bit, but it works very well for me since I implemented it.