Benefits (or not) of having wings clipped?

Ok, I know I have to have Percy's claws trimmed before he takes out his own eye but I'm less convinced about the wings. Here's the deal :
*Percy came to me with a bum wing (a badly healed break, but it doesn't bother him), so he's not a great flyer and will never be a candidate for free flight training. He was checked by a vet who said the wing is fine and won't affect his health or mobility.
He *does* however fly a bit and I am concerned that he may get hurt flying into things or worse, into my very playful pug puppy!
What are your thoughts? I don't want to put him through the stress of being manhandled for a wing clip if it is not essential.

There's no requirement to clip your bird. A lot of people prefer to keep their birds fully flighted even if they aren't going to be free flighted

Well, the benefits are not flying into things,

not flying off and getting lost if a door or window is open, or if you take him outside,

and of course, if they do go out flying, they become a part of the food chain for which they are ill prepared to protect themselves from predators...

and with a dangerous bird that is acting up (i.e. dive bombing/flying in your face), the increased ability to control him...

The disadvantages are that the bird can no longer fly around the room.

Whether or not to get yours clipped depends on how strong a flier he is... and how often he is outside, and how likely/far he is to fly off if he flies off.

Even recalled birds, can and do get lost.

Good lord, I can't risk him flapping through a door left open accidentally! And, like I said, he's not a strong flyer so he does sort of flap down sooner than I think he intends to - and THIS worries me because he could land in a dangerous place (too close to the puppy for example). I think I will try the clip once and see how it goes.

Honestly, Felix came to me clipped so short I was worried his flighties would never grow back....now when he does leap off things (and he does because he thinks he can fly) I am scared he's going to break a wing, a leg, a kiel, a rib...I'm scared the dogs instincts will kick in & she will try to pounce on him......he hits the ground so hard it makes me wince & I pray everyday for his flight feathers to come in as soon as possible. I live on the 16th floor of a condo tower & i have screens to protect the windows, Felix has his rodent ball that he goes in if needed...but mostly I am just extremely mindful of his whereabouts at all times..... I have grappled with this since getting Felix & the more I watch him crash cause that's whatbhe does....the more convinced I am to let his flighties grow in.....

It is very much a personal choice. I think it's important to evaluate your lifestyle & weigh the consequences of both in terms of what your, and your birds, needs are. It is definitely not an easy decision to make....

One advantage of unclipped wings is once they become skilled fliers they will fall and crash less. Or at least fall more gracefully.

Even birds with clipped wings can fly. Especially if they get outside and catch a breeze or gust of wind. My galah has her primaries clipped and she's pretty determined about not letting that stop her from flying. And she's becoming a pretty good flier, with clipped wings!

Birds with unclipped wings also have a better chance of escaping if they know how to fly. Teaching your bird to fly up from the floor, or down from a perch would teach them the skills for those maneuvers.

Even having a clipped bird, I still try to be diligent about windows and doors. With my previous bird, my amazon, I knew that he wasn't very confident with flying...I could walk with him outside on my shoulder and *know* that he would not fly away. (DO NOT TRY THAT AT HOME!!) but with my galah, she would need to wear a harness or be in a travel cage because she's VERY confident about flying and I do NOT want to lose her.

Clipping is a personal choice while taking into account the bird's personality, it's safety, your safety, etc.

If you are very worried about him flying near your puppy(for example), is it possible you can crate your puppy while your bird is out or put him outside?

that way your birds wings may strengthen given the chance to fly, and it will give you a chance to observe him. If for whatever reason it doesn't work out, then maybe clip them a wee bit....but the choice is entirely YOURS.

I do that with my dogs & cats when I have Willow out, given the chance any one of them would swallow her whole, safety is the utmost concern.

Jewelz said:

Hhe hits the ground so hard it makes me wince & I pray everyday for his flight feathers to come in as soon as possible. I live on the 16th floor of a condo tower & i have screens to protect the windows, Felix has his rodent ball that he goes in if needed...but mostly I am just extremely mindful of his whereabouts at all times..... I have grappled with this since getting Felix & the more I watch him crash cause that's whatbhe does....the more convinced I am to let his flighties grow in.....

Click to expand...

He's obviously clipped too short then, or too many feathers. They are supposed to be able to glide down to the floor. Not crash and burn... That is a very bad clip job!

getwozzy said:

One advantage of unclipped wings is once they become skilled fliers they will fall and crash less. Or at least fall more gracefully.

Click to expand...

My CAG scared the crap outta me awhile back. First of all, I didn't realize he was as flighted as he was, because inside he tends to waddle around on the floor rather than fly...

He was out in the tree, got spooked by some kids, and away he went up, up, up to the second story... and then BOOM! Straight and level into the side of my neighbor's house!

So, even flighted, he's not a very graceful bird.

The macaws and the amazons yeah, especially my RFM...

My CAG is so NOT!!!

Birdman you make a very good point. Not all flighted birds can be graceful and /or skilled fliers. It depends on the individual. I guess it depends on they're preferred method of getting around lol waddling vs flying.

Generally speaking, even though 3 of my birds are recalled, I keep them clipped. (Though for the most part there is no need.)

Reasons:

1. Recall is not fool proof, and my birds go outside almost every day.

2. I had a bird fly low coming back to me, and get hit by a car.

3. I had a bird fly to a neighbor's tree, and he was promptly eaten by an owl.

4. I had two birds get spooked indoors by a hawk outside on the balcony, and they flew into a closed window full speed ahead, hard enough to crack the glass and knock themselves silly.

5. I have lost my RFM twice. Fortunately I found her fairly quickly. That bird also flew to the top of a three story building and sat there with her foot up in the air squawking at me for close to two hours.

6. My Red Lored got too close to a wild bird's nest while free flying one day, and they massed and attacked her. She hid out at the top of a 50 foot tree. I had to climb the dang tree and get her down.

7. I lost my Lilac Crowned Amazon once.

8. I lost my CAG three times, twice overnight!

9. I have had several close friends who free flighted their birds, and then one day they just never came back... no one knows what happened to them. Hearbreaking every time!

10. If they ever did get out ad not get found, they'd either be sitting ducks for predators, or they'd starve to death, or die of thirst.

For these reasons, I generally keep mine clipped.

To each his own.

Oh boy MomToPercy A PUG PUPPY!! My very favorite thing in the world lol. How old - is it past the cockeyed phase? lol I've had pugs all my life and I have yet to see a pug puppy that hasn't stolen my heart. What color and what's the name? I sure woudn't mind seeing a picture posted My peach faced lovebird Nico used to land on one of my pugs, Diva, on her rather ample rump, and it was just so funny to see him holding on for dear life as she would waddle around.

About flight feathers, all of my birds have been flighted, mostly because I didn't have any idea of how to cut their flight feathers, and my understanding is that a lot of damage has been done to birds by incorrectly cutting them. I certainly see the benefits of clipping as Birdman points out. Since mine are small birds I handle it by putting them in large flight cages and letting them out only occassionally. If I had a larger parrot, well, then I'd have to wrestle with the cage/cageless situation.

OMG I just notice that I have a new tag - 'senior member' - how did that happen? lol

A big consideration for me is also what he'd look like. Because of his defect, the feathers on his one wing stand out a bit and if they're clipped, he might look rather odd. I will post a pic that shows his wing.
Thanks so much for all your insights. I agree that his safety is the most important consideration - I must protect him not only from flying away but also from crash landing

These type of threads always enrage me in some form, because I feel that people jump to clipping first as though it is the answer to everything.

Please don't read anything I say from here on in as a personal attack, it is not. This is probably going to turn into a long winded rant that is both addressing your situation - and similar. It's very frustrating, so please bare with me and apologies in advance.

Many people come on these (and other forums) preaching wing clipping as though it is the best thing you can do for your bird without taking into consideration the bird, the owner, the situation, etc.

I PERSONALLY, am generally for flighted birds. I agree with clipping, in some situations, but for many I feel that it is a cop out.

Clipped or not, you need to watch your puppy and your bird. If he's flighted - he still might not be fast enough to get away from your pug. If he's not, heck, he's just a flapping piece of lunch on the floor by this point.

Doors - when living with my parents, Merlin used to roost on top of a door, which my dad was fond of slamming shut out of habit. Every entrance to the room was "Merlins on door" so that people knew to leave it as it was - it's a constant awareness of where your bird is and what it's doing that needs to be had when there is a potential threat (people not being vigilant, windows/doors).

Windows - clipped or not, a bird can get out of a window, if it's left open. The key to this problem? Don't leave the window open! We have our windows 'locked' on a tiny opening for ventilation. If we need to have the windows wide open, the birds are caged, or put in another room - with everyone aware to not open the doors to that room because the birds are out!

Merlin was taught the difference between a window, mirror and wall asap. If you can put stickers on windows/mirrors, it often helps builds distinguish between what is space and what is wall. May not help if spooked - but again, clipped or not, a spooked bird will still fling itself into something.

Giving him the chance to fly, mean he will be able to build up his ability to fly - you can't expect a bird to be good at flying without having had the chance to do so!

Merlin got outside one day, but because he was flighted, he knew how to get around and circle the area to stay near Mummy. He flew and flew and flew – he had the stamina to do so too, because he is left flighted and exercised well. A clipped bird? Caught up in the wind thinking "what do I do?" and not knowing what to do with itself. Personally, I feel that clipping gives people an incredible false sense of security. Clipped birds will be swept away – and more owners end up losing clipped birds because they feel it's okay to take them outdoors with no harness/travel carrier, etc! It's absolute madness.

Honestly, all these "flighted birds arn't safe in homes because of XYZ reasons" are pure "I can't be bothered to watch my bird when it's not caged" excuses. You wouldn't chop a toddlers legs off so it's easier to know it's safe when needing to go to a different room etc (as much as it might be appealing when they're trying to get into everything!) you work around it, you be vigilant, you reduce risks and accept the new routine as a new part of life.

I do understand clipping, for a hundred and one reasons it is a good thing and if I saw one here, I'd tell you about I swear. But for every argument for clipping, there is one for against - and as being flighted is a natural part of life for a bird, I don't see why we shouldn't try to accommodate it as best as we possibly can, until all options are exhausted. Each situation is different and I don't judge those who do clip, I just don't think it should be the "go to" response for an issue.

This is not an attack on anyone who clips at all. Heck, I've considered it and would even clip Merlin at one point if it hadn't been for his bad leg. + currently, Charlie, for his flying attacks on Andrew. But for 'safety', I think vigilance is much more important than clipping, something that is more often skimmed over as clipping is thrust upon people as the best thing to do, despite vigilance being needed as priorities whether clipped or not. You need to look at each threat, your situation, your bird, and decide on what is best.

Accidents happen, flighted or not... can you be the responsible enough owner to ensure those windows are closed, the hobs are off, the dog is secure? If you feel you/your household can't accommodate that, fair enough, some can't and it's okay. But if you can with a bit of work, why not?

I think flighted would work for you here. Teach your pug the 'leave it' command, build up your birds ability (and confidence!) in flight and see how you go. It's a lot of training for human and bird involved. Many are used to leaving things lying around, doors open, etc. It's habits that need to change... again, flighted or not.

Sorry for the rant and if anyone took this personally. Feel free to PM me about it and we can talk things through. I am pro-flight, but I am not against clipping. Just the attitude that clipping is best, regardless of individual circumstances.

I learned long ago that this is a hot button issue with most bird owners, and a personal choice.

There are arguments to be made on both sides.

For years, I was in the don't clip, and free flight them camp. Then Py, got hit by the car, Demitre got eaten by an owl, and we had quite a number of other bad things that happened both to my birds, and to friends who free flighted their birds... which put me back in the keep them clipped camp. Where I stand to this day...

Either way, birds can and will get themselves into trouble from time to time.

Clipped or not.

To each his own on this issue.

I've done both. Mine are clipped.

getwozzy said:

Birdman you make a very good point. Not all flighted birds can be graceful and /or skilled fliers. It depends on the individual. I guess it depends on they're preferred method of getting around lol waddling vs flying.

Click to expand...

Well, CAGS are notoriously clumsy, and even though Tusk was allowed to fledge, and I briefly kept him flighted (until he kept flying off on me and not returning! He gets spooked and JUST GOES! MY OTHER ONES GET SPOOKED AND IMMEDIATELY DO A 180 AND FLY BACK TO ME... ) he really was never all that coordinated with it.

I mean he can hang upside down by a toe, and attack three toys at once, but he flies straight and level into a second story building...

My macs and my amazons on the other hand can get up and go...

<looks around....and then gets out in a hurry>

I ain't touching this one with a yardstick. :54:

Just please - everybody - PLEASE remain civil. We ALL know just how VERY controversial this topic is.

GROUPHUG before I exit!

On the basis that it's a decision to be made on the individual circumstances (which I agree with) and as the OP has titled the thread in a general way, could I also ask for some advice in this thread? (OP, if you want to concentrate only on Percy, let me know, and I'll start a new thread)

My galah lives outside. Her cage is out on the patio at the moment, when I sort out the ridgecapping, it'll be moved to just outside the patio and it'll have a shadesail over it. There's no safety door on it, there's one door only. She is tame, you can carry her about and she just sits there but occasionally she's had a bit of a fright and jumped down (she was heavily clipped, so incapable of flying off). I have a new (young) dog who is "chasey" (as opposed to my other dog and former dog who are/were not chasey at all) so I now put my thumb over her 'hand" and my hand on her back when I carry her inside so she doesn't jump off. She only tries to get away when something happens, she otherwise is calm and collected and sits there.

Her former "mum" recommended clipping, but not as short as she was (she was staying with friends and they didn't want her getting away). I've bought a harness but we are still working on "wings!" so she's never had it on.

Suggestions as to what to do? Clip, not clip, get a different cage with a safety door and harness her before carrying her anywhere (after training her, if I can, to accept the harness)?

I could not cope if she flew away and got lost. It sounds awful, but I'd rather she got "eaten" by the dog than having her go missing and never know what happened. (I know how bad that sounds, but I'm being honest)

I have to train this new dog. She's quite "good" for an untrained dog and I think she'll end up being pretty good, but she's got that "chasey" thing going on that can be controlled but it's "her" so it'll always be there. I don't want to deal with it by trying to isolate them from each other, I think exposure and training a better option there.

Please, advice?

strudel said:

On the basis that it's a decision to be made on the individual circumstances (which I agree with) and as the OP has titled the thread in a general way, could I also ask for some advice in this thread? (OP, if you want to concentrate only on Percy, let me know, and I'll start a new thread)

My galah lives outside. Her cage is out on the patio at the moment, when I sort out the ridgecapping, it'll be moved to just outside the patio and it'll have a shadesail over it. There's no safety door on it, there's one door only. She is tame, you can carry her about and she just sits there but occasionally she's had a bit of a fright and jumped down (she was heavily clipped, so incapable of flying off). I have a new (young) dog who is "chasey" (as opposed to my other dog and former dog who are/were not chasey at all) so I now put my thumb over her 'hand" and my hand on her back when I carry her inside so she doesn't jump off. She only tries to get away when something happens, she otherwise is calm and collected and sits there.

Her former "mum" recommended clipping, but not as short as she was (she was staying with friends and they didn't want her getting away). I've bought a harness but we are still working on "wings!" so she's never had it on.

Suggestions as to what to do? Clip, not clip, get a different cage with a safety door and harness her before carrying her anywhere (after training her, if I can, to accept the harness)?

I could not cope if she flew away and got lost. It sounds awful, but I'd rather she got "eaten" by the dog than having her go missing and never know what happened. (I know how bad that sounds, but I'm being honest)

I have to train this new dog. She's quite "good" for an untrained dog and I think she'll end up being pretty good, but she's got that "chasey" thing going on that can be controlled but it's "her" so it'll always be there. I don't want to deal with it by trying to isolate them from each other, I think exposure and training a better option there.

Please, advice?

Click to expand...

What breed of dog is it? I'd recommend getting an additional safety door - and a light clip. Right now it seems incredibly high risk with all the factors involved at the moment... so I'd use them "all" that you can asap. If she is clipped and spooks, you've got a better chance of grabbing before she manages to get lift and away. But I think some safety overhauling is needed

Birdman666 said:

Jewelz said:

Hhe hits the ground so hard it makes me wince & I pray everyday for his flight feathers to come in as soon as possible. I live on the 16th floor of a condo tower & i have screens to protect the windows, Felix has his rodent ball that he goes in if needed...but mostly I am just extremely mindful of his whereabouts at all times..... I have grappled with this since getting Felix & the more I watch him crash cause that's whatbhe does....the more convinced I am to let his flighties grow in.....

Click to expand...

He's obviously clipped too short then, or too many feathers. They are supposed to be able to glide down to the floor. Not crash and burn... That is a very bad clip job!

Click to expand...

I know my vet said the same thing.... He came to me clipped this short & I hope they grow in sooner than later....