Clipping their wings is unhealthy?

So Beatriz Cazeneuve said

Beatriz Cazeneuve said:

I noticed your birds are both clipped and leashed and I would beg you to do some research and reconsider these two antiquated practices. Clipping is now believed to be unhealthy for birds and leashing can be dangerous.

Click to expand...

I was against clipping his wings because I didn't want to take away his flying abilities but the Vet said we should clip his wings for training and for his own safety. So I did it and suprisingly it made him a better bird. For the most part he quit attacking us for no reason (he still does every once in a while but nothing like he was before) and of course now he can't fly to someone just to attack them (he's naughgty). But if he really wants to go somewhere he will work very hard to get there. In general though it really made him eaiser to deal with. Also I really like being able to take him outside (before it got cold). So if clipping and leashing are bad then how do you take them outside? He's not that well trained. The vet never said anything about it possibly being unhealthy for him and supposedly he is called the bird whisperer around the clinic. I don't know if he's that great (he didn't do that well with Tumbala) but I would think that in general he knows alot about parrots since that's his speciality. So is there a big debate on this? What is everone elses opinion?

I do believe that pet birds should be clipped. There are two reasons: 1. I refer to wing trims as "attitude adjustments". A bird that has been clipped and then allowed to fly seems to get a sense of freedom and attitude. We notice a big difference one the bird is trimmed; 2. A hand fed bird does not know how to survive in the wild. They have not been taught foraging and other important survival skills, and as a result, are unprepared out in the wild.
There are those that think it is cruel. I would rather have my birds clipped, then wonder where they are or if they are dead. We take our birds to restaurants, post office, craft fairs, plus their daily activities. In my opinion, keeping a bird clipped is the responsible thing to do. As far as leashes on the legs, even a clipped bird can be scared and take off and the leash can pull hard on the leg. In all my years, taking my birds out, clipped, I've never had a problem. There are harnesses, but should be done when the bird is young and done often. Let me know what you think.

I believe wing clipping is ok in your case, but in other cases such as to keep them from flying away, I do not believe in. both of my birds are fully flighted, and happy. birds were born to fly. that shouldn't be taken away from them.

As you can see there is a bit of a debate. But there is a big difference between debate and intelligent debate.

Countless birds remain fully flighted and are happy healthy and perfectly safe. Countless birds remain clipped and are also happy healthy and perfectly safe.

I'm getting rather tired of being political about some issues - thinking there is one answer and only one answer for every bird in every situation is absurd. And calling a perfectly safe procedure condoned by nearly every (if not EVERY) avian veterinarian in the nation 'antiquated and unhealthy' is just sheer arrogance and closed-mindedness.

There are certainly concerns for either option, and if those with some knowledge can get down off their high horse for long enough to share those concerns then others may be able to learn from them.

Some pro's and con's that come to my mind:
-A clipped bird cannot get into as much trouble, cannot 'escape' and find themselves in a dangerous environment, etc
-A clipped bird cannot ESCAPE dangerous environments

I'm sure there are plenty more, perhaps we can gather a listing of pro's and con's that way owners can make informed decisions on what would be appropriate for their bird in their home with their lifestyle.

For my view I'm fully supporting of clipping if the situation dictates, Auggie was clipped when I got him, but now he is fully flighted. I have, though, had to make sure every area he can fly to is safe, and it is harder to take him outside.

For 'leashing' there are many options. I personally would not do the ankle leash - their legs are very fragile. But flight suits or Aviator harnesses are wonderful (if you can get your bird used to them).

Auggie's Dad said:

Some pro's and con's that come to my mind:
-A clipped bird cannot get into as much trouble, cannot 'escape' and find themselves in a dangerous environment, etc
-A clipped bird cannot ESCAPE dangerous environments

Click to expand...

My biggest fear with clipping his wings was his ability to escape my 4 cats. But he was divebombing my cats for no reason and they were not happy. So I just don't leave the cats and the bird alone together...ever! If I need to leave the room and he is sitting on his cage I either make him come with me or he goes in his cage (but he usually want's to come with me). I would be willing to try a flight suit but I'm afraid to buy one only to find out he won't let me put it on him. I really want to be able to take him places with me and this is the only way I can see it happening (I was worried about using a leash on his ankle). We have been working on potty training so when we do finally get to go places together I don't have to worry about that.

I noticed in a video I watched of the Professor (I think that's his name...and I think redballoon posted it) that he was just out in the back yard by himself. I wondered if he was just really well trained or clipped...but if he's clipped then wouldn't you have to worry about other animals coming into the yard? He really looked like he was having fun in the back yard when he thought nobody was looking.

Anyway I guess there are pros and cons to everything and it depends on each birds personal situation. For the time being we are going to leave him clipped. Like I said...he's a better bird clipped.

Thanks for your opinions

I have a flight suit that I likely can give you. I would need to check with Bubba's real mom, but she's never used it and likely never will. Let me know. [email protected]

I think the bottom line is: after weighing all of the options, the bird owner must make a decision that reflects the best interest of THAT bird and it's environment.

None of my birds are clipped and I have never lost a single one or had a single one crash against a wall or a window or whatever. I don't do it because I think it's not right to handicap an animal for mere convenience and because they love to fly -and I am all about making them happy. But also because birds need to fly to stay physically healthy. This is for two reasons:

a) Exercise - nature did not provide any other exercise that works for birds except flying -she never figured people would put them in cages and/or clip their wings- and I think that the fact that no exercise = bad health is not in question as it applies to all animal species on earth, including humans.

b) Respiratory system - If they don't fly, their posterior air sacs do not inflate and deflate normally and, taking into consideration that their parabronchi are open ended, having a set of air sacs atrophied means that the respiratory cycle is not been fully completed. Atrophied organs are fertile ground for infections and we all know that respiratory infections are very, very common in pet birds and frequently fatal.

It is true that a lot (not all) of AVs recommend clipping and the two that I know who do told me (I specifically ask them) that they do it even though they know is unhealthy for the birds in the long term because they simply do not trust people to keep their birds safe in the short term. So their recommendation is actually based not on what is best for the parrot's health but on the inadequacies of most people as bird keepers. But, to tell you the truth, I don't put a lot of credence on vets' opinions when it comes to diet or behavior UNLESS these vets have had multiple birds for, at least, fifteen years because neither subject is part of their curriculum to get their degree so they could only learn them by living with parrots day in and day out.

Personally, I also think that clipping does something to their minds. I know that a lot of people will say that it makes them easier to manage and it is true that it does. Any type of handicapping has the same effect. Even feral animals allow people to handle them when they are handicapped. But there are other ways of achieving the same result. It's like breaking a horse, you have the Old West way where a horse is roped and kept immobile while the rider gets on top and rides it until the animal is exhausted. And you have the modern way of doing it which is taking the time to slolwy gain the horse's trust, teaching him how to respond to a bridle, getting him used to a blanket on his back first then the saddle, etc so, by the time the rider gets on the horse, the horse accepts him without a problem. It's the same thing with aggressive birds, you can subjugate them through fear (taking them to an unfamiliar darkened room, etc) force (toweling/forcing the bird to accept human touch) or handicapping (clipping) or you can let him figure out on its own that you are no threat and slowly gain his trust and love. It's a matter of choice of methods. I choose the last one and it has worked for me on birds on whom the other methods did not.

This does not mean that I have never clipped a bird. I have. One bird: a male senegal that had attacked two birds in two days in a row during last year's breeding season so I clipped him. And it worked. He stopped attacking the other birds. He also hid for days and days only coming out to eat and drink,stopped talking altogether (and he is a prodigious talker this little boy!) and took about a month for him to start climbing up the branches again so I promised myself I would never do it again because, even though he was a pain in the neck (he bit the heck out of me, too!), I did so admired his spunk! He molted two of the four clipped feathers in the fall, became flighted again and got his wonderful attitude back. And I cannot even begin to tell you how relieved and happy I was to see that I had not permanently damaged his self-esteem! I would have never forgiven myself if that had happened!

First of all...sandijones thank you for the offer of the flight suit. I sent you an E-mail from [email protected] (just incase you needed that info).

Second...Beatriz Cazeneuve thank you for your very insiteful opinion. I would like to let him fly again although to be honest he didn't do much flying anyway. Only to get where he wanted to be and then he would stay there. He still does. I'm actually suprised at how far he can get. My biggest fear is the cats. He would just fly off my shoulder for no reason and fly right at the cat...get as close as he can and then turn and fly back to me. My fear is that eventually they will stop being afraid of him and smack him out of the sky and possibly bite him. I have to make him stop doing that first. We need to really train him. But if I can get my hands on a flight suit and he can stop suicide bombing then I will happily let his feathers grow back. I do want him to be happy but I need him to be safe too. Hopefully we can accomplish both.

LOL - I don't know how you will train him to stop diving at the cats... I don't think I could accomplish that, to tell you the truth. But then, I don't specifically train my birds to do anything whatsoever, what they learn, they learn on their own through the mere repetition of the words immediately prior or after the behavior. But you are 100% right in worrying because, as you say, even if the cats just bat him out of sheer annoyance and not meaning to hurt him, cats are highly infectious animals and some of them are carriers of the cat scratch fever bacteria in their claws and believe me when I tell you that you don't want the bird to catch it! For one thing, I would imagine it would simply kill the bird and, for another, even if it didn't, it's terribly, terribly painful! Personally, I would not have the bird out where the cats are.

This is the most civilised arguement on this subject I have ever seen on a forum. Well done to all involved for expressing your views and respecting other views.

All my big birds are clipped. I would love them to be unclipped, but its just not practical for me.
I drool when when I see those free flight videos on youtube, but its a dream only for me.
My birds live like this, and I dont appologise for it.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSewdUeRmsA]YouTube - spingday[/ame]

Red...WOW what a cool area you have for them. Looks like they are happy parrots. I would love to have an area like that (or even half that) for Tumbala. I would deffinately have to get a couple more birds then!

I've just decided that it depends on the situation and for mine this is better. Maybe someday that will change but for now he's going to stay clipped. Although I have to admit that I miss his the beautiful feathers that were clipped. They are so pretty when he's in flight.

You are right, that is a really nice aviary. I too have my birds clipped, since we go with justwingingit to restaurants, craft shows, etc. I tried using the harness on my macaw when he was younger, and it worked great, but I didn't keep up with it and now he will have nothing to do with it. I also do wildlife rescue and we are always getting calls from people whose birds got out the front door, or they were in the yard with them and the birds were not clipped and got spooked by hawks or other animals and flew off. We have also found birds that way. Because of these kinds of instances, I prefer to keep mine clipped.

Wing Clipping Techniques have been developed by a wide number of individuals around the world, this article is a summary of the better points which should be taken into consideration prior to clipping.
When the wings are clipped, proper restraint should be applied. The bird's chest must not be restricted, because it cannot breathe. The head , both feet, and opposite wing should be well restrained for the bird's safety. This is best performed by your assistant who can gently wrap the bird in a towel and hold it by the neck, stomach down. Carefully extricate one wing so you are looking down on the top, this wing should be held at the base of the humerus, and not by the feathers, as injury could occur if the bird should flap this held wing.
Wing clipping is not for the inexperienced, and is best carried out by a trained avian veterinarian, many will be prepared to give hands on experience.

I chose to have Puffin's wings clipped for a couple of reasons

1. I was not only very new to owning a parrot but aside from a budgie when I was 10 and an avairy bred King Parrot, I was very new to being around birds.

2. I have 3 cats who have never been around a bird in their home.

3. I was told by the breeder ( rightly or wrongly) that it was best to have him clipped for at least the first year to give him time to really bond to me. She said if I did right by him that after a year I could decide to no longer clip him as he would be so bonded to me that he would not want to leave me.

4.I wanted a bird that I could take to work with me and I could not trust that doors would not be accidently left open. I also wanted my bird to be able to come out for lunch, go to cafes and be a true companion and until I became a more confident bird owner, I owed it to him to keep him safe.

This really is a good clipping debate...intelligent and unemotional.

With our 2 birds - Max the Alexandrine was clipped when we got him and "always" had been. He's "very" clipped and all of his attempts to fly are really just a semi-controlled fall. Once he gets new flight fleathers, we are going to see how he does as fully flighted.

Jade, our red front macaw, is fully flighted and unless it becomes unsafe for her, she always will be.

The breeder we got Jade from has 6 macaws that she free-flies - 5 red fronts and a scarlet. She's never lost a free-flying bird, although they may stay in a tree a bit longer than she would prefer they did. It's the coolest thing to see them all fly around her house.

In the end, we have to make the best decisions for our birds - based on research and valid information.

we have a huge cage for the birds 8 x8 x8
home maid . we let them fly in the cage and have been working on a jungle room in the sun room .
i cannot let my birds out in winter since we use the wood stove and it scares me to think of what can happen.
My birds have been clipped in the past and now they are not as they have room.