Any ideas for quelling Miss Rosetta?

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

Sigh. Things are progressing with Rosetta, but I wish they would progress just a teensy bit faster. So far, it's been two steps forward, one step back. This is where we're at right now.

Pros

She seems to have stopped flying into peoples' faces (although that could be because I've stopped allowing the family access to her when she's out-of-cage).

She's *marginally* quieter, but still bellows for a good half-hour each morning and evening.

I tried target training and *that* seems to have struck a positive note. While we're doing that, I have her absolute attention.

Cons

She's still absolutely hyper! The moment I take her from the cage, the hat goes up and she's totally full-on, racing around, shrieking, flinging toys in a way that I don't really think is playful. It's some kind of reaction to some emotion and I can only imagine that's fear.

Eventually, in every play session, she goes for my hands. She grabs on tightly with her claws and begins beaking, gently at first, but then she'll really dig in and make me bleed. Sometimes, all I can do is put my hand in the cage and scrape her off on the door! It hurts like $%()^$@%!!! All my t-shirts are blood-stained! So is Rosetta for that matter!

She has a habit of sticking her head in dark places, seemingly to hide. She'll stick her head down my cleavage, or up my sleeve Now, that's scary! Imagine a bite from a cocky in the soft flesh under your arm! Or she'll insert herself between two pillows on the sofa and burrow under until she's completely hidden.

Sometimes, I think these behaviours are a bit 'nesty'. There's something sexual, I think, in the way she goes for my hands. She'll duck her head under my hand and run her bill along the underside in an almost-courtship sort of way. I don't know... There's just something in her demeanour that makes me think hormones are causing a lot of the behaviours.

We have the occasional good day where she'll play for a bit, fly for a bit and then listen to me while I 'train' her and speak to her. But then, we'll have awful days where I just can't reach her. My only option is to put her back in the cage and I *don't* want that to be a punishment. But she hurts people! What else can I do?

The weight of responsibility for this birdie is getting so, so heavy! I have to make it work because the buck stops with me. I've been scouring the net for this or that training method, but nothing seems to come under the heading of 'hormonal, nervous, aggressive cockatoo'. AND, of course, I don't know what my own faults are. What am I doing to make it worse? I don't know!

So yeah. That's where we're up to. I've had two tries with 'setta today and both times I had to scrape her back into the cage before she laid my hands open. I feel like the proverbial $#!+. She's currently ransacking her cage and flinging toys about. If only she'd calm down and let me play with her, I could help her get rid of all that nervous energy. Sad.

noodles123 · Nov 26, 2018

Betrisher said:
Sigh. Things are progressing with Rosetta, but I wish they would progress just a teensy bit faster. So far, it's been two steps forward, one step back. This is where we're at right now.

Pros

She seems to have stopped flying into peoples' faces (although that could be because I've stopped allowing the family access to her when she's out-of-cage).

She's *marginally* quieter, but still bellows for a good half-hour each morning and evening.

I tried target training and *that* seems to have struck a positive note. While we're doing that, I have her absolute attention.

Cons

She's still absolutely hyper! The moment I take her from the cage, the hat goes up and she's totally full-on, racing around, shrieking, flinging toys in a way that I don't really think is playful. It's some kind of reaction to some emotion and I can only imagine that's fear.

Eventually, in every play session, she goes for my hands. She grabs on tightly with her claws and begins beaking, gently at first, but then she'll really dig in and make me bleed. Sometimes, all I can do is put my hand in the cage and scrape her off on the door! It hurts like $%()^$@%!!! All my t-shirts are blood-stained! So is Rosetta for that matter!

She has a habit of sticking her head in dark places, seemingly to hide. She'll stick her head down my cleavage, or up my sleeve Now, that's scary! Imagine a bite from a cocky in the soft flesh under your arm! Or she'll insert herself between two pillows on the sofa and burrow under until she's completely hidden.

Sometimes, I think these behaviours are a bit 'nesty'. There's something sexual, I think, in the way she goes for my hands. She'll duck her head under my hand and run her bill along the underside in an almost-courtship sort of way. I don't know... There's just something in her demeanour that makes me think hormones are causing a lot of the behaviours.

We have the occasional good day where she'll play for a bit, fly for a bit and then listen to me while I 'train' her and speak to her. But then, we'll have awful days where I just can't reach her. My only option is to put her back in the cage and I *don't* want that to be a punishment. But she hurts people! What else can I do?

The weight of responsibility for this birdie is getting so, so heavy! I have to make it work because the buck stops with me. I've been scouring the net for this or that training method, but nothing seems to come under the heading of 'hormonal, nervous, aggressive cockatoo'. AND, of course, I don't know what my own faults are. What am I doing to make it worse? I don't know!

So yeah. That's where we're up to. I've had two tries with 'setta today and both times I had to scrape her back into the cage before she laid my hands open. I feel like the proverbial $#!+. She's currently ransacking her cage and flinging toys about. If only she'd calm down and let me play with her, I could help her get rid of all that nervous energy. Sad.

I haven't read all of this yet, but it has been my personal experience (with my Too) that the dark spaces thing is a hormonal/nesting behavior.
Mine is always LOOKING for dark spaces (which is why she doesn't have access to boxes, blankets etc). She will try to stick her head in my shirt and do that cute (but sexual) clicking sound while gazing up at me with one eye. This is loving, but I don't encourage it--it is very sexual and that is NOT the message you want to send. It usually turns into a "LETS CHANGE THE SUBJECT!!!" situation. You really should do all that you can to prevent her from accessing dark spaces (they nest in hollow tree-trunks)...Hormonal birds can become super crazy and there are health problems (such as egg-binding) that can occur as well.

You are only petting on the head, right? You definitely need to prevent her from playing with anything that could be perceived as cave-like...pillows, blankets, shirts, piles of crumbled paper, underneath short tables or your legs...anything that is dark/confined (even my arms suspended above my too's head in an arch will cause her to try to make a cave and snuggle up).

Is she getting enough sleep and how much light/dark daily?

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

Yes, I learned with the Lovies that we don't encourage 'nesty' behaviours and so no, she doesn't have access to any dark hollows (except she does enjoy her pizza box, which could be interpreted as 'a dark hollow' - only she uses it for a trampoline more than anything else). I discourage her from poking herself into things, but the hand-thing she's got going on is kind of impossible to prevent. My galah had a 'thing' about hands and would absolutely court them and display to them. We got very good at distracting him from that and it ended up not being a problem. But the galah sat still long enough to listen. 'Setta's all over the place!

She's covered when the sun goes down and uncovered at about 6am. She flock calls then, and in the evenings when the wild corellas are flying over.

PS. I can't really pet Rosetta because if I put my hand near her, she'll slide her head underneath it and make my hand 'a dark hollow'.

Laurasea · Nov 26, 2018

I commend you for your efforts. I'm afraid from what I've read, and not from any experience on my part, that this species doesn't do well in captivity as a pet.... They have a lot if energy and need a lot of activity, as you have seen. This is probably the only, and is my first time to recommend .. Rossetta might be best served by living in a free flight sanctuary... If you are unable and most of us are unable to build her an Avairy, or enclose your patio for her to have much more room, I'm afraid it will be constantly as it is now. I know you want what is best for her, and sometimes it just isn't whithin a person's means to be able to provide that. I hope others do have better options for you. Speaking for myself , this is a situation that I wouldn't hold against you, if you also agreed a sanctuary might be giving her the best life that is possible in captivity.

noodles123 · Nov 26, 2018

Well, hmmm...some of it DOES sound hormonal...but cockatoos are VERY energetic as well...so it could be a bit of both. Perhaps, if hormonal, it will decrease when the novelty of new faces wears off. That having been said, they are endlessly energetic at times (and exhausting 95% of the time lol).

The AM and PM scream-fests are normal. Pick a sound you like better and train her to use it as a replacement. Ignore screams and run over etc (assuming she is attention seeking) when she does the other sound. Mine still screams occasionally, but she will make monkey sounds and say she also says loves me instead (learned behavior which I prefer).

How long have you had her now? I can't recall how long it has been..

The first few months are usually very weird...then again, some people experience new behaviors after the newness wears off...

It sounds like she is getting a lot of exercise. That is good--get her as much as you can.
Keep in mind that when toos get over-stimulated, they will often bite in excitement. Like WOOOOOO SO MUCH FUNNNNNNNN THAT I CAN'T PROCESS....CHOMP!

Does she like music?

If she is hormonal, the two of you bobbing around to music could be taken the wrong way (so make sure you think about that before bobbing around)...but I will say, mine really likes to have a rowdy jam-session before bed. I crank up music and dance around etc and she gets a lot of her crazy out and then, shortly thereafter, she knows it is time for bed. I don't do this in the morning, as I don't think others would appreciate that lol.

I let my "too" decide when to go into her cage for bed each night (she usually picks within the same hour of time each day, based on lighting + her internal clock). I cover her once she makes the call and starts doing her ritual cage-bob.

You might consider observing how yours reacts to darkness (whether she will go into her cage etc). I am a big believer in a sleep schedule, but I can give mine an hour or so of wiggle room, as I wake up 2-3 hours before work anyway...Later bedtime=later wake-up (less convenient for me, but may be easier on the bird...don't know...it's just what I do). That is probably the least of your worries, but birds can be impacted by small things, so it may be something to consider.

LaManuka · Nov 26, 2018

Mogadon, Valium, Serepax, vodka, for either or both of you, any combination of all of the above....sorry I’m probably not helping....!!!

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

Thanks for your honest reply, Laurasea. The thing is, I know of lots of corellas that are doing quite well in captivity and being perfectly gorgeous family pets. My very first thought has been that I'm failing Rosetta in some way and somehow contributing to her behaviour, but, as noodles123 just mentioned, I suspect she's also got a massive hormonal overload. I don't know what I can do about that.

Her previous owner keeps assuring me she was 'just a sweet darling' at their place. But if that was the case, why did they sell her on? I'll try my best for as long as I can. I owe that to Rosetta. I just wish some amazing person like Barbara Heidenreich could pop over and diagnose my failings for me!

noodles123 · Nov 26, 2018

LOL
In all seriousness, they do have drugs for parrot anxiety. I am hesistant to tell you to look into these because, based on descriptions, it is really hard to tell whether the behavior is abnormal or just adjustment + cockatoo antics (which often seem abnormal to sane people and may vary from bird-to-brid) . Obviously there are risks to drugs etc so you would want to work VERY closely with a CAV and monitor blood-work etc if you took that route.

Before doing that though, you may want to look into a bird behaviorist who can observe your bird in your home...one who has experience with cockatoos specifically (as they are TOTALLY unique). I know that could be expensive...so the other thing to keep in mind is that she hasn't been with you that long and that time could make a difference here.

I am inclined to say wait until she has been with you for 3-6 months before rushing into anything. By 6 months, usually you start to see a more accurate picture of the bird, but in cases of abuse etc, it can take longer.

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

"How long have you had her now? I can't recall how long it has been.."

Only about a month. Feels like forever!

"It sounds like she is getting a lot of exercise. That is good--get her as much as you can."

She flies a lot and self-exercises by clambering all over her cage, jumping on her pizza box and hanging from her swing. She needs *more* exercise than she's getting, though. I can tell that.

I have the radio on the classical music station most days and it doesn't seem to affect 'setta much at all. I guess I could try Rammstein (which is no hardship - I love Rammstein!)

"I let my "too" decide when to go into her cage for bed each night"

Because 'setta is so unpredictable and aggro, she just can't be left outside of her cage for very long at all! That's my aim: for 'setta to be free-range in the house without the need to shut her up. Sadly, she's dangerous right now.

My most pressing need is to find some way of making her stop, listen and cooperate with me. Target training is good, but she can only attend for five minutes or so. I hope to extend that over time. The rest of her out-of-cage time is spent flying-and-screeching, rushing around on the floor like an electron and hanging off of my flesh until I can disengage her.

noodles123 · Nov 26, 2018

The fact that she is flying at specific people reaffirms the possibility of hormones. Who does she go after and who does she prefer?

In terms of music, play a bunch of random stuff sometime and just see how she reacts to it---My bird likes low voices rather than high ones and she doesn't always like stuff that I would expect her to. She loves Barry White and Blood Sweat and Tears LOLOLOL (I don't listen to Barry, but one day, he came on and she was very into it). Birds do have preferences. Interestingly (lol), a small-scale study indicated that, while all favored different genres, the most universally hated genre among parrots was techno! haha
You might try putting on music with voices, but whatever you pick, make sure it has enough variety that it won't all sound the same and stress her out if she dislikes it lol.

What are you using as a reinforcer when target-training and how often are you giving it? When she loses focus, what does she default to doing?
If it makes you feel any better, 10 minute sessions are pretty much the max for birds in general.

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

"In all seriousness, they do have drugs for parrot anxiety. I am hesistant to tell you to look into these because, based on descriptions, it is really hard to tell whether the behavior is abnormal or just adjustment + cockatoo antics (which often seem abnormal to sane people and may vary from bird-to-brid) . Obviously there are risks to drugs etc so you would want to work VERY closely with a CAV and monitor blood-work etc if you took that route."

LOL! Cockavalium! Xanaxatoo! Heehee! Those would be a very-most-last resort and she hasn't been with me nearly long enough to do that. I just have to find the right buttons to push, y'know?

"Before doing that though, you may want to look into a bird behaviorist who can observe your bird in your home...one who has experience with cockatoos specifically (as they are TOTALLY unique). I know that could be expensive...so the other thing to keep in mind is that she hasn't been with you that long and that time could make a difference here. "

LOL! This is Australia. Things like bird behaviourists are sparse on the ground over here and cost more than megabux! Also, they're almost exclusively based in the capital cities, which are as good as inaccessible to me (too far, too much $$$).

I am inclined to say wait until she has been with you for 3-6 months before rushing into anything. By 6 months, usually you start to see a more accurate picture of the bird, but in cases of abuse etc, it can take longer.

Yep. That's the plan. I dealt with Dommie, who was a neglect victim. He hated me till the day he died, but he *did* form wonderful relationships with my husband and son. I know that darling old boy was happy with us and found security and love with the men in the family. We gave him a good life, which was spent entirely free-range in the house and he had everything he needed. I hope to do the same for 'setta. Eventually.

noodles123 · Nov 26, 2018

While you were typing this reply, I replied to your other post but it's on the previous page

LOL
Back and fourth (love it!)
You plan sounds good for now---the thing is, it does sound like you are making progress slowly...and SLOW is the name of the game.

sunshine.within · Nov 26, 2018

I read that cockatoos go in heat/mate twice a year, in spring and fall. So basically since Bianca was acting as if she was trying to nest, I recently removed all paper/cardboard and all the boxes she liked to play with from her cage. You might want to try everything you can to discourage her mating behaviors to make her less lively.

One month is very little time and I admire your undying patience with Rosetta. I have a tame cockatoo and still think it will take at least a year for all of us to find some balance in our relationship. I’ve only had her for 3/4 months.

Are you able to get Rosetta an aviary so that she has more room to move and forage? She sounds like she wants to live the life of a free flying bird.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

noodles123 · Nov 26, 2018

They do sell walk-in aviaries that you could setup indoors if you had the space. They are not as expensive as I thought they would be either...
Also, at this point, how much time is she spending out of her cage daily?

Laurasea · Nov 26, 2018

Betrisher said:
Thanks for your honest reply, Laurasea. The thing is, I know of lots of corellas that are doing quite well in captivity and being perfectly gorgeous family pets. My very first thought has been that I'm failing Rosetta in some way and somehow contributing to her behaviour, but, as noodles123 just mentioned, I suspect she's also got a massive hormonal overload. I don't know what I can do about that.

Her previous owner keeps assuring me she was 'just a sweet darling' at their place. But if that was the case, why did they sell her on? I'll try my best for as long as I can. I owe that to Rosetta. I just wish some amazing person like Barbara Heidenreich could pop over and diagnose my failings for me!

Can you contact those families that you know are having good birds and wonderful pets, and grill them lol for information on their success? Find out what's working for them, and their set up?.they might be your very best resource!!!! I worked with a Rescue Nanday that was starved for attention and would get do over excited and in trying to get attention would try and groom peeling my fingers apart and biting but not agressive. I finally just spent hours , well really an entire day petting grooming just trying to reach the end of this mannic need for attention, it was a real break through for us, and every finger nail was bleeding on both sides by the time we were done. You are dealing with a bigger beak and more pain, but can you try and see if you can get to the other side, where she finally calms down and you've quenched her need ? Just one time to see if it's possible, if it changes her behavior? Anyway I wish you the best of luck and will keep learning from you and the advice you receive in dealing with this girl.

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

"What are you using as a reinforcer when target-training and how often are you giving it? When she loses focus, what does she default to doing?
If it makes you feel any better, 10 minute sessions are pretty much the max for birds in general."

I use sunflower seeds given when she touches the end of my chopstick. She's almost got it (still tends to bite the stick rather than touching it and then tries to wrench it away). I give a sunflower seed every time she touches the end of the stick correctly (ie. without biting or trying to steal it). When she loses focus, she goes straight to my hand, standing on the back of it and 'beaking' my fingers, quickly turning upside-down and hanging her entire weight off the loose skin on the backs of my hands (in which her claws are firmly embedded).

I say 'No' and try to disengage her. If I can get her off, we continue to play or train. If not and she's really lacerating me, I have to return her to the cage.

I just realised today, she totally incapable of playing or being out-of-cage without me there. She continues to be jumpy and give the impression of being fearful when sudden noises happen. When they do, she flies madly round the room and then lands on me, beaking and clawing and hanging on.

I've learnt that if I stay completely calm and relaxed, Rosetta does a *lot* better than if I stiffen and prepare for a bite. Thing is, she mostly doesn't bite: she only does it when she's so worked up there's nothing left to do. I'm trying to put her away *before* 'so worked up' happens. Learning... learning... learning...

BTW, thank you for listening and helping! It means everything to us!

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

"You might want to try everything you can to discourage her mating behaviors to make her less lively."

Yep! Done that (except for one pizza box that she jumps on).

"One month is very little time and I admire your undying patience with Rosetta. I have a tame cockatoo and still think it will take at least a year for all of us to find some balance in our relationship. I’ve only had her for 3/4 months."

Sigh. I bought the bird as a 'tame and affectionate family pet'. Call me gormless, but it never occurred to me that 'setta would be anything other than 'tame and affectionate'. I can't believe she has *ever* sat quietly on anyone's hand or played quietly on the top of her cage. She's just totally full-on all the time. I keep wondering whether I've unwittingly done something (or am doing something) to unsettle and frighten her. I've tried to eliminate all scary objects and I've absolutely made sure that no one goes near her with noise or big movements. I remain calm and as relaxed as I can be and I always handle her with slow, measured movements. I dunno what else to try.

"Are you able to get Rosetta an aviary so that she has more room to move and forage? She sounds like she wants to live the life of a free flying bird."

Our aviary situation is a matter of - um - some angst between my husband and me. Hubby is a bit of an Ent ('don't be too hasty'). I hope the (very large) aviary will be built before too much longer. I don't know whether you read my earlier post, but Rosetta escaped from her cage one day and got out. After half-an-hour of searching and calling, she swooped down out of a tree onto my son's shoulder. She could have flown away, but didn't! How I wish I could speak her language!

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

She's only spending an hour at the very most out of her cage. I'm very conscious of this and know it's not enough. But, to put it baldly, I can't bleed for any longer than that!

I've begun trying a few twenty-minute periods out-of-cage each day and that seems to be helping a bit, although we had a shocker this morning and she only lasted fifteen minutes. My hands and arms look as if I've been poking them in a mincer.

Betrisher · Nov 26, 2018

Laurasea, the families I know with 'good' corellas are all friends of my sister's. Sadly, my sister and I are not on good terms atm (long story, all about our mother's estate). I feel *very* reluctant to contact any of those people right now. But I'm sure I can find others if I try! Thanks for the idea.

LaManuka · Nov 27, 2018

But seriously now... my most excellent CAV Brisbane Bird Vet offers behavioural classes twice a week. There is also legendary CAV and bird whisperer Ross Perry (ex Sydney I think he’s on the Gold Coast now) who may also be able to advise. If these are not feasible due to distance etc it still may be worth contacting them to ask if they know of anyone closer to you who could assist!

Any ideas for quelling Miss Rosetta?

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what do you wish you knew?

Morning routine length?

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