Zilla's Prognosis Maybe Good/Maybe bad

Just got a call from the vet. Test results were negative for what she had thought it might have been (at least her first thoughts after yesterdays episode)

I hadn't even thought to tell her what kind of cage Zilla had been in, just that it was super small and old and I had gotten her a nice big new cage a few days ago.

Dr. remembered me saying the old one was super rusty and old. She had me text her some pics of it and then told me Zilla was not only in a rusty old cage but it is galvanized steel!!! BAD! I had no idea!

She now thinks we are dealing with zinc poisoning! She gave me some options of treatment, but not knowing how long she has been in that old cage (so no idea of how much zinc she may have ingested over time) we aren't sure of the extent of damage to her liver and kidneys.

I have to take her in again Thursday for more tests and see what can be done.

At this point she has a 50/50 chance.

Oh my gosh, Amanda! I hope and pray it's not zinc (metal) poisoning!

The both of you are in my thoughts and prayers.

O my. Good thing you got her out of that cage when you did. I hope she does not have zinc poisoning, or that you've caught it in time to treat. Poor Zilla From my understanding, they have some really good treatments now for heavy metal poisoning, as well as vet RX pelleted diets specifically for birds with kidney or liver issues to help them keep in as good of health for as long as they can. Fingers and toes crossed that Zilla is OK.

Actually sounds like a correct diagnosis based on the history and symptoms:

What is heavy metal poisoning?

There are several types of heavy metal poisons which affect birds, but the most common are zinc, lead and copper poisoning. Zinc is used on many cages to prevent rusting and when new, before it has oxidised, it is toxic to birds when ingested. We see this poisoning often in birds placed into a new aviary or cage. It is called "New Wire Disease" for this reason. Lead poisoning occurs in older houses and when birds chew on the solder which joins the wire together in the cage. Copper poisoning is less common but occurs when the bird chews an electrical wire.

It must be remembered that not every bird in a new cage will get heavy metal poisoning. Hen birds which have a mineral deficiency will chew on wire more than a bird that has a perfect diet. Inquisitive, depressed and naughty pet birds will chew wire and so may ingest the zinc coating or solder "dag". The common signs of heavy metal poisoning are increased thirst, vomiting in larger birds, sudden depression, not eating and a dark green diarrhea.
How is it treated?
When the metal is in the gizzard or lower, heavy metal poisoning is treated with an antidote-like injection called Calsenate. This substance leeches the poisonous zinc/lead out of the ingested metal fragments and renders the zinc or lead harmless. But at the same time the bird must be fed and its fluid intake maintained or the kidneys and liver will shut down. Surgery to remove the ingested metallic poison is performed when the metal is still in the crop. Antibiotics or anti-fungals may be necessary pending the culture test.

Your bird must be hospitalised until it is eating and drinking by itself and then it can be discharged and treated as an outpatient or at home.

Are there any other special instructions?

To accelerate the healing process I recommend that all birds are given F-vite on the sterile seed day for 1 week, then for one day twice weekly after this time. The TurboBooster helps lubricate the metal fragments down through the bowel. The F-vite is given because often the ingestion of the metal relates to a mineral imbalance. Following the antibiotic treatment DufoPlus and Ioford are given twice weekly. Make sure your bird is actually eating and drinking. If not, then it will need to return for further injections and force feeding in hospital.

If your bird is eating and drinking normally, it's a good sign.

So far today she is eating all the "fresh" foods I have given her. No seeds or pellets today that I have seen, but if I can keep her eating the fresh veggies and fruits and drinking she has a good chance. And she ALWAYS wants what I am eating, so if I eat the "good" stuff so will she.

Dr. said to give her 2 fresh cranberries a day (no more due to the acidic nature could cause ulcers) but they could help with her kidney and liver if they are damaged. Since she loves them I can do that! I would rather not give her iceberg lettuce with no nutritional value but Dr. said the water content would be good for her if she starts not drinking enough.

She is playing/napping as usual. Her poo looks better than yesterday. She is making toothpicks out of a Popsicle stick right now.

I guess it's just wait and see what the new tests on Thursday say and do what the vet says for now. Keep her warm, and watch her closely. It's a good thing I work in an office just 4 feet from her cage so I can be home with her all day.

It sounds like she's improving Kind of makes you wonder (strictly hypothesizing here) if the poor baby's body was exposed to those toxins for so long, when she got in a new cage, now her body is trying to detox itself. Hopefully the vet can help get her on the right diet and meds. I agree with bird man that having a healthy appetite and playing are good signs

She definitely has a good appetite! She is chowing down her afternoon "birdie salad" right now. Romaine heart, spinach leaves, radish, apple, grape, peeled celery, peas, carrots and strawberry all chopped into small pieces and mixed together just the way she likes it!

She has also been playing with her swinging gym (more like trying to disassemble) making toothpicks out of popsicle sticks, shredding paper towels, and generally being a normal Zon.

I was just wondering since she is in a new cage now (powder coated) and I did wipe it all down before we put it together and then after it was put together, before I put her in it, I shouldn't have to worry it could make her sick right??? I also wipe it down every evening so it won't get gross and makes it easier on the weekends to give it a really good cleaning.

I will also be eating more of the stuff she is supposed to be eating (weather I like it or not) so she will eat more of the "good" stuff, at least until we can get a handle on this and get her well. I will draw the line at pellets and seeds though

I'm really trying to keep a positive attitude, and with her being such a trooper, having an appetite and playing it sure helps!

And you ALL help more than you know! THANK YOU!

So the blood test for zinc poisoning hasn't come in yet to say for sure? I hope it's not, but if it is, it's good to have an exact diagnosis so that Zilla can get the correct treatment to make her better!

Robin, my 20 year old boy had (has) lead poisoning, and I know it's different from zinc (different symptoms) and it was so low level for years that it went undetected for a while. This year, x-rays showed 2 little pieces of rock (tiny pebbles) that must have contained lead in them. Where/how he picked it up will forever be a mystery. My birds don't roam around free, still it happened. He had surgery to get it removed. Next month he has his 3 month recheck to see if the lead levels in the blood have finally gone down some. After surgery the levels were still higher than normal indicating the lead had leached into the bone. He still sleeps more than normal (for the past several years). From what I hear, it could be many rounds of chelation therapy, Waiting, then blood level recheck, then more chelation, etc, and can commonly last up to a couple years of treatment I'm told before lead is out of the bone. He does have liver and kidney damage, but after the surgery he was ordered to be on a normal diet again, and seems to be back to normal digestion. He's happy and fine though.

I know lead is not the same as zinc, but I believe chelation meds are used to pull the zinc out of the body as well. Just letting you know I have a 'sort of' similar story, and I understand. Only the symptoms here were so much more subtle it was unfortunately going on for so long it caused more damage. Hopefully with Zilla, IF it is heavy metal poisining, it was caught in enough time that the treatment will be relatively easy. Good luck

Taking a total shot in the dark here, but I wonder if Zilla's body had been "coping" with exposure to heavy metals all those years by storing it, and now that she in no longer being exposed, it's trying to get rid of it (triggering the symptoms)? Hopefully with the help of the vet, you can get her on chelation drugs and get the toxic metals out for good! Or possibly reacting to the mass die off of whatever she's been on antibiotics for (hasn't she been on them?). She has been having a lot of changes recently, and while all improvements and steps in the right direction for her health, sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. Google "herxheimer reaction" and see if you agree that may be a possibility of why this is surfacing now instead of when she was in the toxic cage and sick with whatever infection.

P.S. All the articles about herxheimer reactions that have "advice" on "remedies" only apply to humans (and probably still would want to consult your doctor). Obviously, follow the vets advice and instructions on what to do for Zilla! It was just a thought I had of WHY this would be happening at the time it is, and (fingers crossed) a sign Zilla is returning to good health even if it doesn't necessarily seem like it

RavensGryf said:

So the blood test for zinc poisoning hasn't come in yet to say for sure? I hope it's not, but if it is, it's good to have an exact diagnosis so that Zilla can get the correct treatment to make her better!

Robin, my 20 year old boy had (has) lead poisoning, and I know it's different from zinc (different symptoms) and it was so low level for years that it went undetected for a while. This year, x-rays showed 2 little pieces of rock (tiny pebbles) that must have contained lead in them. Where/how he picked it up will forever be a mystery. My birds don't roam around free, still it happened. He had surgery to get it removed. Next month he has his 3 month recheck to see if the lead levels in the blood have finally gone down some. After surgery the levels were still higher than normal indicating the lead had leached into the bone. He still sleeps more than normal (for the past several years). From what I hear, it could be many rounds of chelation therapy, Waiting, then blood level recheck, then more chelation, etc, and can commonly last up to a couple years of treatment I'm told before lead is out of the bone. He does have liver and kidney damage, but after the surgery he was ordered to be on a normal diet again, and seems to be back to normal digestion. He's happy and fine though.

I know lead is not the same as zinc, but I believe chelation meds are used to pull the zinc out of the body as well. Just letting you know I have a 'sort of' similar story, and I understand. Only the symptoms here were so much more subtle it was unfortunately going on for so long it caused more damage. Hopefully with Zilla, IF it is heavy metal poisining, it was caught in enough time that the treatment will be relatively easy. Good luck

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your story, it gives me more hope for Zilla!

And you are right, those test results are not in yet, we are just going by symptoms and what tests have been done and came back negative.

My fear is that she was in that rusty, galvanized steel cage for her whole life (I know at least the last 6 years) so I fear she may have been slowly ingesting the zinc (or heavy metal) for years. I'm working on finding out from the people I know had her for the last 6 years, because it's my understanding they knew the guy who had her before they got her, because he was friends with their son. He supposedly got her as a baby, but kept getting in trouble and going to jail/prison and she kept getting bounced around everytime he screwed up. The people who had her for at least the last 6 years decided her respiratory issues were too much to deal with (they admit they never followed through with any meds because she fought too much and was acting "well" so it "must have been enough to cure her") so her breathing issues would be back every few months and another trip to the vet for an injection and some meds to take home, and round and round they would go without ever finishing the meds.

None of this information about her past was told to me before I got her. I know me and I would have taken her anyways, (I'm such a sucker for a cute face in need of a better home!) but it would have been nice to have someone be honest with me about what her care might involve and what her issues have been. It's been like pulling teeth to try to get more and more information so I can do what's right for her. So far I only have the vet records for the last vet they took her to in April of this year, but they said they will get me the other 4 vets they have taken her to over the 6 years they had her. Why they didn't take her to the avian vet I don't know, but that is where she is going now.

I have hope for her, she is a trooper and seems to be fighting well, so far. She loves loves loves her food (mine AND hers) and she is drinking water (my water out of my glass and licking my ice cubes!) She is playing and having a great time, though she does sleep a lot! She has breakfast, then a nap, then second breakfast, then another nap, then lunch, then a nap, then second lunch, then another nap, then "birdie salad" then a short nap, then plays on swinging gym, then dinner, more "disassembling" toys, then nap, then second dinner, then she puts herself to bed for the night.

Kiwibird said:

Taking a total shot in the dark here, but I wonder if Zilla's body had been "coping" with exposure to heavy metals all those years by storing it, and now that she in no longer being exposed, it's trying to get rid of it (triggering the symptoms)? Hopefully with the help of the vet, you can get her on chelation drugs and get the toxic metals out for good! Or possibly reacting to the mass die off of whatever she's been on antibiotics for (hasn't she been on them?). She has been having a lot of changes recently, and while all improvements and steps in the right direction for her health, sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. Google "herxheimer reaction" and see if you agree that may be a possibility of why this is surfacing now instead of when she was in the toxic cage and sick with whatever infection.

P.S. All the articles about herxheimer reactions that have "advice" on "remedies" only apply to humans (and probably still would want to consult your doctor). Obviously, follow the vets advice and instructions on what to do for Zilla! It was just a thought I had of WHY this would be happening at the time it is, and (fingers crossed) a sign Zilla is returning to good health even if it doesn't necessarily seem like it

Click to expand...

I will definitely read up on this and discuss with the vet on Thursday! It's a definite possibility! I would call her tomorrow, but it's her day off, that's why I have to wait till Thurs. to take Zilla back in.

Thank you so much!

Wow, Zilla has sure been through a lot! Luckily she is now in a safe, good, loving home .
As heartbreaking as the story is, I'm glad you now know all that.

Sending good wishes for her treatment to be successful (and diagnosis accurate). You are such a good birdie mom, and your vet sounds great too! Zilla will pull through this and become a strong healthy bird because of it!

We've all experienced "getting worse before you get better". If you've ever had a bad flu, you always feel the worst right before your fever breaks. Imagine being exposed to toxic metals for years and years how you's feel as your body started to recover... Obviously, I'm not a vet, but it makes sense our animal friends would experience many of the same things we do.

Just keep Zilla eating, playing and happy! She is such a lucky girl you found her, saved her and are now getting her healthy. I think on some level, parrots do understand when we help them. She will be forever grateful, and that will translate to the kind of unconditional love only a parrot can give

Amanda_Bennett said:

Kiwibird said:

Taking a total shot in the dark here, but I wonder if Zilla's body had been "coping" with exposure to heavy metals all those years by storing it, and now that she in no longer being exposed, it's trying to get rid of it (triggering the symptoms)? Hopefully with the help of the vet, you can get her on chelation drugs and get the toxic metals out for good! Or possibly reacting to the mass die off of whatever she's been on antibiotics for (hasn't she been on them?). She has been having a lot of changes recently, and while all improvements and steps in the right direction for her health, sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. Google "herxheimer reaction" and see if you agree that may be a possibility of why this is surfacing now instead of when she was in the toxic cage and sick with whatever infection.

It was just a thought I had of WHY this would be happening at the time it is, and (fingers crossed) a sign Zilla is returning to good health even if it doesn't necessarily seem like it

Click to expand...

I will definitely read up on this and discuss with the vet on Thursday! It's a definite possibility! I would call her tomorrow, but it's her day off, that's why I have to wait till Thurs. to take Zilla back in.

Thank you so much!

Click to expand...

Well, they don't so much "cope" with heavy metals by storing it, it's something that builds up over time that they can't readily get out of their system until it reaches a level to where it becomes toxic and dangerous.

But the rest is entirely correct. The body has to purge the stuff out of it's system over time, and with the proper medications, and until that happens, the bird is still going to be sick, and will continue to have episodes...

The good news is, that once the stuff is purged from his system, then he'll be fine, AND more imporantly, you removed the cause, so he won't be re-exposed to it.

This morning she is acting like a totally "normal" bird!

We got up at 5:00am, she had breakfast, I had coffee (after she got her breakfast of course) she ate with her whole heart as usual, making her happy "thank you mommy" sounds the whole time.

She only took about a 5 minute nap, then played, ate some seeds/pellets, played some more, chattered with me, played, chattered, got super jealous when I petted Simon and started doing her "me me me" dance and making her "I don't like that" "stop that" noises!

Now I'm in the office trying to get some work done and she is "calling" me wanting me to scratch her head and play with her!

I'm so confused! One day she seems sick and the next she seems "normal" and fine!

I'm still taking her in for tests tomorrow, but it's just confusing!!!

It takes time for the toxicity to work itself out of her blood stream. This was a long term exposure, so it stands to reason that recovering from it will also be long term.

If the heavy metal levels in the blood test have significantly dropped, then she's getting better. So, it's a good thing.

If she has toxic metals in her system obviously thats not good and should be dealt with. I'm sure she will have days worse then others as her body begins to detoxify. Still, even perfectly healthy, never been sick a day in their lives birds just have some days they have funny poops or are extra tired with no "serious" reason behind it. Kiwi's been a tad on the puffy side since the rain came back lol. I've been making sure he gets to hang out in front of the SAD lamp which seems to give him a boost of energy Lots of vitamin-a rich foods too! Sweet potatoes, pumpkins, butternut squash, a little red palm oil....birdie heaven I tell you and a good energy boost in this rainy climate!

Birdman666 said:

It takes time for the toxicity to work itself out of her blood stream. This was a long term exposure, so it stands to reason that recovering from it will also be long term.

If the heavy metal levels in the blood test have significantly dropped, then she's getting better. So, it's a good thing.

Click to expand...

We will know for sure in a couple days, but I am a super duper happy mommy right now!

Kiwibird said:

If she has toxic metals in her system obviously thats not good and should be dealt with. I'm sure she will have days worse then others as her body begins to detoxify. Still, even perfectly healthy, never been sick a day in their lives birds just have some days they have funny poops or are extra tired with no "serious" reason behind it. Kiwi's been a tad on the puffy side since the rain came back lol. I've been making sure he gets to hang out in front of the SAD lamp which seems to give him a boost of energy Lots of vitamin-a rich foods too! Sweet potatoes, pumpkins, butternut squash, a little red palm oil....birdie heaven I tell you and a good energy boost in this rainy climate!

Click to expand...

I'm sure it will take some time for her to get back to where she needs to be, but I am going to enjoy the good days and fret on the bad ones, just like I did (still do even though they are 23 and 25 now) with my human children, and I also do it with my furbabies.

I will do everything I can to help her along the way (I sure do wish she was a snuggler so I could feel like my snuggles help, but she isn't so I have to settle for head scratches)

As for the vitamin A rich diet, she hates sweet potatoes, squash of any kind, broccoli, spinach, brussel sprouts, and many other things! She will eat a bite or two if I am eating them, but if I put any of those things in her dish she immediately "flings" them at me or Simon! I had a HUGE mess the other day when I dared to put sweet potato mash in her dish! She flung it all over the living room until I could get to it and take it out! Silly bird!

I know she came to you like that, but this should be a LIFE LESSON FOR EVERYONE ELSE: THE FEW BUCKS YOU SAVE ON THAT RUSTY - OR DIY CAGE?!

One vet bill easily triples your savings, and that's assuming the bird recovers!!!

If he doesn't then JUST THINK of all the money you saved on food and toys...

(Okay, so subtle is NOT my specialty! But it needs to be reinforced every now and again...)