Yet another "which parrot is most appropriate?" thread

[redfishsc]

Ok, folks, this is my first post around here. I've kept birds before but it's been probably 15 years and they were standard-issue parakeets and finches. Cool birds, but we're thinking of something more "pet" like.


Anyhow, we have two cats that we are considering getting rid of. We have an 8-month old boy who is very grabby and we fear he'll grab a cat and get bit. Not to mention the cats piss on my recliner sometimes, the litter box stinks to high heaven even with daily cleanings, and the cat hair everywhere is hideous. They gotta go. They are otherwise nice cats but just the fact that they are cats means they have some issues to overcome.

A small parrot could easily be kept out of reach of our boy and won't stink the house up. I am accustomed to caring properly for animals, as I keep reef aquariums, so I'm familiar with keeping animals in tip-top condition.


However, I would like some suggestions on what bird would be most appropriate for us. That way I can focus on what is most appropriate and research them before we go buy. We never trust "pet shop advice" when it comes to exotics. I am a reef aquarium keeper and know all too well the bad advice you can get.


Here's what will influence our decision. This may be a pretty tall order, but there may be a bird that fits the bill just right. You tell me.


1) A bird that stays small or medium (ie not much bigger than a fat pigeon) and doesn't tend to be bite-happy if handled APPROPRIATELY. Also a bird that kinda like to be handled, but it doesn't necessarily have to be "puppy" type.

2) One that doesn't get big like an African grey and could be kept in a decent sized cage, up and away from our boy until he's of age to pet a bird. I know parrots need freedom; we wont' keep him penned up 24/7.

3) One that doesn't cost $200!

4) One that isn't likely to squawk constantly.

5) Colors aren't important; we're looking more for a family member than a wall-flower.




Of all this, the main characteristics we are looking for is a small to medium size bird that isn't as likely to bite aggressively if handled.


I have thought about a Conyer (sp?) since I have talked with pet shop owners in the past about them, and they seem like a good medium-sized bird that is very lovable.


Any ideas?

 

[Auggie's Dad]

Welcome to the forum,

Hopefully we can give some ideas, but let me say right off the bat that I think you're going to have to compromise on at least one of those criteria - I don't know that any bird other than parakeets and finches would fit all of them.

We never trust "pet shop advice" when it comes to exotics. I am a reef aquarium keeper and know all too well the bad advice you can get.

I couldn't agree more - Welcome to my nightmare. I'm beginning some research that requires setting up a marine aquarium... in fact its worse - it's for sensitive invertebrates that live in estuary with a peculiar mix of ocean salinity and freshwater pH. I had been looking for a drip doser to VERY gradually acclimate them to my set up. I am aware there may be varying terminology but when I described in detail to the pet shop employee what I needed (describing it as an IV for an aquarium along with other details) his only response was "I've never heard of such a thing." I hung my head and walked out of the store.

Anyhow, on to birds for you:

First there are very few birds who would make less of a mess than a cat. Do you have any parrot owning friends? It would be good to visit their home on an "average" day. We parrot owners tend to work hard to not let visitors see the reality of bird-mess. If cleaning up after a cat was frustrating I think you should think hard before getting a parrot.

They do not shed fur - they shed feathers. They will not pee on your furniture - they will poop on everything they can get to (and some things you wouldn't think they can get to) and they will chew wholes in whatever they want. Don't get me wrong, you can certainly train a parrot to do their business in certain areas and to chew appropriate toys - but its definitely no easier to so train a parrot than a cat.

We have an 8-month old boy who is very grabby and we fear he'll grab a cat and get bit.

And he wouldn't grab at a parrot? A cat can leave marks on little fingers - a parrot may not leave fingers! Yes you can keep a parrot's cage out of reach, but any 'pet-like' parrot needs plenty of out of cage time. I'm sure you could manage ways to spend time with the bird when your son is occupied elsewhere, but exactly how this would work is something to consider.

Anyhow, that's enough for warnings and nay-saying. Parrots make wonderful pets and I am quite partial to conures. Many conure species, caiques, quakers, senegals, and cockatiels all fit most of your criteria - but you'd be quite hard pressed to find any of those other than a cockatiel which would cost less that $200. You also should consider the price of the cage. My conure was around $400, the cage, perches, and other basic equipment cost nearly $1000 (I did go a bit overboard, but not by a whole lot.) Similar to fish the price of the animal itself is only a small fraction of the set up cost. Parrots however are relatively cheap for "upkeep": the occasional new toy and food is quite affordable.

If there was a typo and you missed a zero in the $200 figure then there are plenty of options, if not then even a cockatiel plus a half decent cage would likely cost that much.

As far as conures you may want to check out green-cheeks. They small conures with big personality, they're very playful and are generally good with families and kids.

Again cockatiels would probably fit all your criteria, and they can be far better pets than most people realize. Cockatiels are very common and often purchased by people who don't know what they are doing. In such situations they are not social, do not live long, and are not very 'pet-like'. Raised in proper conditions however cockatiels are very social, playful, long-lived, and can even learn to talk ... talk being loosely defined - they don't have the vocal capabilities to mimic as well as others parrots but they certainly try: many cockatiels whistle songs and have several 'words' that their owners can recognize.

 

[redfishsc]

Welcome to the forum,

Hopefully we can give some ideas, but let me say right off the bat that I think you're going to have to compromise on at least one of those criteria - I don't know that any bird other than parakeets and finches would fit all of them.

Lol, if I could find a very young parakeet that we could raise the right way, I'm not opposed to that! Actually I saw some very cool diamond doves today at the pet shop, literally a few minutes ago, that I'll research a bit on.

I did have a feeling that my criteria was asking a bit much for a parrot.

I couldn't agree more - Welcome to my nightmare. I'm beginning some research that requires setting up a marine aquarium... in fact its worse - it's for sensitive invertebrates that live in estuary with a peculiar mix of ocean salinity and freshwater pH. I had been looking for a drip doser to VERY gradually acclimate them to my set up. I am aware there may be varying terminology but when I described in detail to the pet shop employee what I needed (describing it as an IV for an aquarium along with other details) his only response was "I've never heard of such a thing." I hung my head and walked out of the store.

You want a peristaltic pump. First link is for a 1.1 ml-per-minute pump (really slow!) and the second is 50ml per minute. Both are about $100. Bulkreefsupply.com is a VERY reputable company I do business with (not a lot of business, my tanks are small).

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Plumbing-and-Pumps-Dosing-and-Peristaltic-Pumps/c14_53/p844/BRS-2-Part-Doser-*New*--(1.1-mL-Per-Minute)/product_info.html

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Plumbing-and-Pumps-Dosing-and-Peristaltic-Pumps/c14_53/p845/BRS-Top-Off-Doser-*New*-(50-mL-Per-Minute)/product_info.html

All that being said, you can easily rig up a DIY gravity feed drip that you can hand-dial in for around $3. Buy some standard airline tubing and a pack of airline valves. They work fine for water just like air. Just suck on one end to start the siphon and use the valve to slow it down to a couple drops per second. If you are acclimating something that's sitting in a few gallons of their native water, this should be more than sufficient for acclimating them.


I just collected some native pipefish from a brackish estuary (more salt than fresh but still lower than 35ppt seawater). Some of the coolest things come from an estuary.

First there are very few birds who would make less of a mess than a cat. Do you have any parrot owning friends? It would be good to visit their home on an "average" day. We parrot owners tend to work hard to not let visitors see the reality of bird-mess. If cleaning up after a cat was frustrating I think you should think hard before getting a parrot.

My aunt had small "double parakeet" sized parrot for around 10 years that looked like with the turquiose head and green body. Mean lil s.o.b. No clue what it was, but I do remember the mess. The parakeets and finches I've had were about the same. I've never been around a "full sized" bird like an african grey or Macaw, but I'm sure they're a landfill critter.

They do not shed fur - they shed feathers. They will not pee on your furniture - they will poop on everything they can get to (and some things you wouldn't think they can get to) and they will chew wholes in whatever they want. Don't get me wrong, you can certainly train a parrot to do their business in certain areas and to chew appropriate toys - but its definitely no easier to so train a parrot than a cat.

Yup, been pooped on before too. At least it doesn't smell like cat pee. I will say this. I've never in my life had to clean anything more nasty than the 4 foot iguana I had when I was a teenager. A buddy at work gave him to me. NEVER EVER accept a free 4 foot iguana named "Butthead". It has that name for a REASON!! Day one he crapped in my heater vent, and talk about a hideous mess.

And he wouldn't grab at a parrot? A cat can leave marks on little fingers - a parrot may not leave fingers! Yes you can keep a parrot's cage out of reach, but any 'pet-like' parrot needs plenty of out of cage time. I'm sure you could manage ways to spend time with the bird when your son is occupied elsewhere, but exactly how this would work is something to consider.

Well, sure he'd grab a parrot but so long as the parrot wasn't within reach, he'd be fine. This is why I wanted a small/medium bird, but the danger is only a bit less I suppose.

but you'd be quite hard pressed to find any of those other than a cockatiel which would cost less that $200. You also should consider the price of the cage. My conure was around $400, the cage, perches, and other basic equipment cost nearly $1000 (I did go a bit overboard, but not by a whole lot.) Similar to fish the price of the animal itself is only a small fraction of the set up cost. Parrots however are relatively cheap for "upkeep": the occasional new toy and food is quite affordable.

SO I NOTICED!:53: Today after I posted here, my curiosity got the best of me and I went to the pet shop, and $650 for a Sun conure! Yowza!

If there was a typo and you missed a zero in the $200 figure then there are plenty of options, if not then even a cockatiel plus a half decent cage would likely cost that much.

Lol, if I could convince my employer that the type-o is in my paycheck, then maybe.....

Again cockatiels would probably fit all your criteria, and they can be far better pets than most people realize. Cockatiels are very common and often purchased by people who don't know what they are doing. In such situations they are not social, do not live long, and are not very 'pet-like'. Raised in proper conditions however cockatiels are very social, playful, long-lived, and can even learn to talk ... talk being loosely defined - they don't have the vocal capabilities to mimic as well as others parrots but they certainly try: many cockatiels whistle songs and have several 'words' that their owners can recognize.

You are the second person today to recommend this. I have a feeling if we go with a bird, this is what we'll do, either that or the doves. Depends on what research says.



Thanks so much for your help!!!

If you would like any help or advice on keeping the reef or marine estuary stuff, send me an email. I've kept a lot of east coast native stuff before and would love to help you.

One of my specialties is short-cutting the over-hyped commercial systems and simply doing what's necessary and helpful......and not dumping cash on things not needed. I'm a DIY fanatic and refuse to give in to commercialized propaganda, lol.

 

[Auggie's Dad]

One of my specialties is short-cutting the over-hyped commercial systems and simply doing what's necessary and helpful......and not dumping cash on things not needed. I'm a DIY fanatic and refuse to give in to commercialized propaganda, lol.

Same here. Besides, if you build it yourself you know how to fix it!

My undergrad advisor and I did some pretty interesting research with apparatuses we built with stuff from the garbage. I think there was one trip to a hardware store with a bill of a couple of bucks.

I did invest in a refractometer which has been a life saver (actually twelve lives as thats how many specimens I currently have.) My entire set-up is patch-worked together. I did buy a small fluval system and I rigged it to supply several small "tanks" which are large mason jars - The output from the filter goes into a 2.5 gallon water jug from walmart, and all the jars and the jug are in a big plastic tub I got from the garbage; the water level in the jug is higher than the jars which is higher than the tub and everything but the fluval running water from the tub back to the jug is run by gravity siphon. It's ugly as hell, but does the job perfectly.

I seem to be on track now. My amphioxus (Branchiostoma floridae) are acclimated and in the 'tank' now. Now if I can get them to spawn I'll be set.


Anyhow, for parrots...

I don't know much about doves, they would seem to fit what you are looking for, but I've never interacted with them as pets. My lab-mates work with passerines (perching birds which includes as a major subgroup the songbirds), and as a hobby I'm interested in psittacines (parrots), but doves are neither of these.

If you're aunts bird looked like the one in my picture thats a dusky conure - they can be quite vicious to strangers, but they are very lovey-cuddly with their owner (usually).

There are a few members here who breed parakeets and cockatiels. It shouldn't be hard to find a breeder for either of these and get them young so you can raise them well.

 

[redfishsc]

I did invest in a refractometer which has been a life saver (actually twelve lives as thats how many specimens I currently have.)

Excellent! Refractometers are the way to go. Unless you specifically bought a lab grade SEAWATER refracto, you will want to calibrate it with a known 35ppt SEAWATER sample (not mere "salt water"). The absolute vast majority of hobby grade refractometers (in the $150 and under range) are actually BRINE refractos and not seawater refractos, and it does make a difference of several ppt, on your readings. Don't calibrate it with distilled or RO/DI water, it WILL skew your readings on higher salinities.

Mine is a brine refracto, but I calibrate it with the Pinpoint 53.0 mS fluid (designed for electronic meters but has been shown to work just as well with light-refraction instruments as well). Dobble on a couple drops of the Pinpoint solution and set the meter to 35ppt.

Since you have access to lab grade stuff you might be able to make your own solution using good precision scales. Search the Reefcentral.com chemistry forum archives for refractomeer use--- Randy Holmes-Farley has written some very good articles on this.

I seem to be on track now. My amphioxus (Branchiostoma floridae) are acclimated and in the 'tank' now. Now if I can get them to spawn I'll be set.

Lancelets! Cool!

If you're aunts bird looked like the one in my picture thats a dusky conure - they can be quite vicious to strangers, but they are very lovey-cuddly with their owner (usually).

That sounds like the bird alright. The bird would mount his hand pretty much daily, and the old perv just let him:11:.

There are a few members here who breed parakeets and cockatiels. It shouldn't be hard to find a breeder for either of these and get them young so you can raise them well.

Another good idea!

 

[Auggie's Dad]

That sounds like the bird alright. The bird would mount his hand pretty much daily, and the old perv just let him:11:.

:54::54::54:

Sounds like a don't ask don't tell situation. Don't ask if Auggie does that.
:54::54::54:

 

[TexDot33]

I swear we need to make this topic a "Sticky" somewhere ... this is the most asked question we get on this forum ...

We never trust "pet shop advice" when it comes to exotics. I am a reef aquarium keeper and know all too well the bad advice you can get.

Morons for the most part ... there are some good ones out there, there are some who know their $hit and take pride in that ... but for the most part you get morons at pet stores, and it really upsets me. Sometimes I just want to go "Red Foreman" on their asses and call them 'dumbasses' and slap them upside the head ...

They do not shed fur - they shed feathers.

Enough to stuff a friggen pillow! I cleaned behind the sofa before going on vacation (because I actually rented a carpet cleaner and the birds were already at the place they were being boarded while we were gone ... ) MY GAWD I found enough feathers back there to stuff two king size pillows and to build to exact replicas of Hamlet AND Mac ... why, I ask you, are they not BALD if they are loosing so many feathers?

They will not pee on your furniture - they will poop on everything they can get to (and some things you wouldn't think they can get to) ... you can certainly train a parrot to do their business in certain areas ...

As much as I hate to contradict you AD, you forget, that training the parrot isn't training the parrot, it's training the human to WATCH and LEARN the parrot's behavior so that WE can get them to the appropriate place to do their business ... I still can't get Mac to not poop on me ... she gives my wife warning, looks, little chirps ... me, I get nothing ... just poop (even 2 minutes after she poops for my wife, she comes to me ... sits on my shoulder and *poop* just because I think she knows it upsets me and she likes that, it's fun to watch a human jump up and down and yell, he must be happy cause that's what I do when I am happy) ... I can't figure it out to save my life ... uugh.

... and they will chew wholes in whatever they want.

Amen brother, AAAAAAAMEN! I don't have one tee shirt that dosen't have a beak imprint in it somewhere, and I am not even going to mention the number of polo shirts that I have that need a button or 3 replaced ... no matter how hard I try, I can't keep those little scissors from getting to my clothes

We have an 8-month old boy who is very grabby and we fear he'll grab a cat and get bit.

RedFishSC - if you do decide to go with a parrot, please do not clip the wings ... this will allow your parrot to get out of any trouble that your little one might get him into ... My wife and I are going through this decision now (we have always kept our's 'long clipped' allows for flight but not speed or much height) we figure that with our first child "on the way" (she's due around Halloween) that will be a major defense for our birds is to allow them to fly away from the child ...

I know AD said don't ask, about noise and he won't tell you Auggie is loud ... let's just say we don't need an alarm clock around here ... we are up by 7 every morning weather we like it or not ... the two days that we recently had where the girls weren't here (dropped off at the boarding facility while we were on vacation) WAS HEAVEN ... we slept until 9 for one of the last times ever on both those days ...

BUT, with all this being said, my wife and I wouldn't change anything in the world about these two ... and we would have more in a heartbeat if we could ... they are very rewarding ... kinda like (I think) being a parent ... a lot of work, but worth every minute of it ...

PS - Welcome to the forum, and I am sorry this post sounds so scathing ... it's not ment to be like that at all ... I'm just hot and cranky ...

 

[RKZX2]

i would rather see you adopt rather than purchase. all my birds are adopted. there are far too many birds out there that could be in a good home.

 

[TexDot33]

i would rather see you adopt rather than purchase. all my birds are adopted. there are far too many birds out there that could be in a good home.

Amen brother, amen!!!

I just wish we had a place around here that I could volunteer my free time (what little there is) and help parrots find good homes ... there isn't a place here near me at all ...

I would love to be able to help out at a rescue, although, I would probably get attached too quickly to just about all the birds.

 

[2dogs]

I think you will do fine. I hope you find a wonderful loving home for your kitty cats.

 

[Auggie's Dad]

Doo do dooo.... don't mind this post.

 

[danewillow]

Is this for real? You want to "get rid of" your cats because you can't keep your bratty kid from grabbing them and you want a bird? Birds are a lot of work and are very sensitive to the people (including kids) around them. Our amazon is premanently traumatized by a toddler that climbed in her cage in her former home. She's afraid of children.