Yet Another Biting thread

[ZephyrFly]

As some may recall I went away last weekend and left Pazu with my boyfriends parents. He was excellent for the most part (and caged the entire time). He got noisier with time but i thought he would.
I got him back monday thinking he would be grumpy, to expect more nasty bites like the days prior to my going away and his moving upstairs to the parents. He's bitten before but rarely ever like this, tearing skin and drawing blood. I didnt like it but treated it as I normally would, tell him no and put him away for awhile, I figured he knew something was up and would chill out once we were home....
Well it's not worse?
I got back a lovely bird that evidently missed me but as soon as he'd spent a few hours out with my back home like normal he bit me... and since then he is biting me multiple times a day which was not the norm before, and what really getting to me is that most of them are face/neck bites. I know what causes some of these bites, though I'd be lying if I said all because most have happened when my attention is on something like washing his bowls in the sink and he bit the back of my neck (i had to get my boyfriend to assess this as I couldn't see it).
I say this isn't worse than the prior week only because he isn't tearing flesh and drawing blood (not an exageration, my hand have holes in, a blood blister and scabs), but now he latches on. When I've been paying attention when he bites he bites down, sometimes not hard but then chomps down harder and has to be removed. Today he jumped from his cage to bite and stay attached to the hand asking him to step up (i was doing some step up training on his cage to try and help in our time out situation).

Some of these bites are displacement bites (if i got that right) were he doesn't like the sound of plastic bags crinkling so he bites me.

The problem I need help with is (besides pressure training properly, he plays rough and I just avoid it) but when I try to put him in the cage after a bite he jumps on top of the cage and clings to it. I've been doing extra step up training all week to help this issue but he wont move unless there is a treat once on his cage (he also appears to know he's going in/he's in trouble) which seems counter-productive to putting him away for biting.
I've never toweled him as I've never had a need to.
How do you put your birds away after they bite you? If it ok to give a treat for stepping up if it means he gets put away? Might this behaviour decrease with time?

I'm off again at the end of the month but he'll be staying home with the boyfriend (whom he's had no change in behaviour with), only for 3 days (i think) but I don't want him dealing with this behaviour. My boyfriend doesn't tolerate bites well and is quickly discouraged...

I do reallise one thing that probably could help is not allowing him on my shoulder but up until a few months ago he's never bitten mine or anyone else's face/neck. I've toyed with the idea but he's so quick and once he's on my shoulder he wont leave unless he wants to/i'm putting him down to play/sit/with purpose of some kind.

They might not be vicious flesh tearing bites (although some are drawing blood) but sheer amout and determination to stay latched on is getting to me.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Hi Plum has been a beast in the past and I have had to endure flying, biting fits and yes the same in terms of hanging onto the cage for dear life. You are being made to pay for being away IMO. I still get a crafty bite now and again if something doesn't please his highness, but not often.

If you cover him the effect is to freeze, which makes it possible to return to cage safely. It has got to the point of only needing to show Plum it now and he puts himself back in his cage. Please do not reward bad behaviour or it will be one messed up bird. Be consistent, be gentle in how you do it, it is a tool and nothing more.

Possibly a bit of a jealousy issue here too, you are not focussing on me so take that! Do not allow shoulder privileges until this can be straightened out as you stand to sustain some serious biting/scaring etc.

 

[ZephyrFly]

Hi Plum has been a beast in the past and I have had to endure flying, biting fits and yes the same in terms of hanging onto the cage for dear life. You are being made to pay for being away IMO. I still get a crafty bite now and again if something doesn't please his highness, but not often.

If you cover him the effect is to freeze, which makes it possible to return to cage safely. It has got to the point of only needing to show Plum it now and he puts himself back in his cage. Please do not reward bad behaviour or it will be one messed up bird. Be consistent, be gentle in how you do it, it is a tool and nothing more.

Hi,
You seem to be suggesting toweling him, which I am not again but how do you handle a bird that's latched onto their cage? or the back of my shoulder (i assume i just have to encourage him to get off then towel...). I've seen people talk about not using dark towels, is this a thing to be concerned about?

 

[GaleriaGila]

My ideas... not sure how much it helps, but ya never know...

I have an old bird who is set in his ways, and may be a good example of what can happen if you DON'T do effective, early intervention.
I have reduced biting to almost zero over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I surrendered. I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. I don't scratch his head much, ever... tail is okay. I NEVER do stuff that makes him mad... I don't touch others when he's out; I rarely try to get him to step up onto my hand first. Hand-held perch first, then hand. In some ways, I swallow my disappointment at having such a little monster for a pet, but he is what he is. I ALWAYS wear my hair down when he's on my shoulder, so all he can bite is hair.
The ONLY way I get him into the cage is to toss his favorite treat in and he flaps in after it.
I honestly take whatever ridiculous precautions are needed and just love your little maniac.
But please... listen to and try all the good advice you'll get here. Don't surrender until you know you've done your best. Then just accept and love whatever/whoever your bird turns out to be.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[plumsmum2005]

To coin a phrase "Parrots are not naturally afraid of towels. It is the way they are used that makes them so threatened by them".

If he is put into the dark Pazu will let go eventually, it can take time and conures are devils for hanging on by beak and feet if necessary.

 

[Flboy]

I am not sure if I posted this last time. Well worth studying!
Be careful that you aren't becoming a new squeaky toy!
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

 

[ZephyrFly]

Thanks both of you.
Gail you do a great job, my friends have a dog who is old and set in his ways and do all the crazy stuff because at 13, he ain't changing. Rickey isn't my first thought when I think of where Pazu could go, the worst case scenario is that I can't care for him anymore i.e. having to give him up. And you haven't done that to Rickey.

Plumsmum, I'll give it a go but I've found in the past turning the lights off seems to panic him if he isn't in his cage but that was for different purposes (aviator harness, I'd read about turning off the light to help calm them down). He's a people bird, i try my best with toys, but he likes what he likes and when the option is to be out asleep in my hand or neck then he'll go for it (my neck currently hurts as he's nestled into it).
As for towel, there's a few dish towels i keep in his room that i'll probably get him more used to.

 

[ZephyrFly]

I am not sure if I posted this last time. Well worth studying!
Be careful that you aren't becoming a new squeaky toy!
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

I was worried I might be and that thread was the first thing i turned to when wednesday rolled round and he was still biting. My main issue is properly addressing the biting with a time out. I'm getting anxious when offering him a hand not because of the bite but because I can't get him in his cage without bribing him. I do cover his cage and ignore him for 5-10 min after but the fact that i can't get him away without a treat is count-productive.

 

[GaleriaGila]

Thanks, ZF. Hey, that WOULD be the worst thing... having to let go.
Hang in there!

 

[Flboy]

I do not completely agree with timeouts. I tend to try to work with positive reinforcement, these little guys are smart enough to actually become resentful! It isn't easy, but you have to try to figure out the different bite triggers and avoid those triggers! A trigger for my JoJo was, every morning when I took them out of the cage I would tend to get nailed. So I started using a perch for him to step up on. It took me a while to realize, but the issue was not me reaching into the cage, but the issue was when I first took him out I would want to hug him. And poor guy had not taken his morning dump yet!
The biting is a learned behavior! That is why,

"The only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs."

I am slow, that sentence took me so long to click!
My wife's Bongo (formally the barbarian) was a complete terrorist, to me!
I am presently housesitting him for the next two days, and you talk about quirks! He is one tough conure! Since I stopped trying to use the method of forcing him into submission, proving that I was bigger, we get along very well! But even with this there are rules that I need to follow. One of which is, he being a conure, he loves affection and cuddling! Rule, he is allowed to rub his head on my fingers but I must not move my fingers because then if I'm moving my fingers it's me touching him and he gets upset at that!

 

[Flboy]

Remember, giving up Pazu is not an option! No different than any other child going through a difficult time! There is no problem whatsoever with you stepping back and resetting your relationship. Plus remember the problem may be your baby is being hormonal at the moment! That is a nightmare time for most any of us including the poor bird! Remember, you get to get away from your frustration with what is going on. Pazu doesn't have that luxury!
I just looked, your baby hit two years old in September this is a terrible time for a conure, and very challenging! Don't let it ruin your relationship just give her some space and help her through it!

I would have to say, your trip, was just a coincidence and it is not what changed everything!
Correction, he!

 

[Flboy]

Sorry, but I am on a roll. You're going to have to tell me to shut up sooner or later! Basically your baby is in the middle of puberty and as a teenager that is really acting out!
You may really need to give him a little bit of space for now letting him know that you're still there you still love him but avoid developing bad habits!

http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/24245-realization.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/36419-dealing-aggression-parrots.html

 

[Flboy]

Instead of editing my previous post, I decided to put this as a separate one. I'm using voice to text, and when my computer feels like it it automatically submits the thread!
Instead of me posting all of the links that I just found, just do a search on, "hormonal+MonicaMC" leave off the quotes!
Type it in just like that you'll find quite a bit of useful information on exactly what you're going through!

 

[ZephyrFly]

Sorry, but I am on a roll. You're going to have to tell me to shut up sooner or later! Basically your baby is in the middle of puberty and as a teenager that is really acting out!
You may really need to give him a little bit of space for now letting him know that you're still there you still love him but avoid developing bad habits!

http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/24245-realization.html
http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/36419-dealing-aggression-parrots.html

I was under the belief that GCC matured at 1 (give or take) and the pubescent hormones evened out after 2 or so?

I hear where your coming from, I think stepping back a bit might be best. But some of this behaviour is point blank displacement biting (i make a bunch of crinkly noise and he bites me over it after awhile) which I know is best avoided but I still need to appropriately handle him when he does bite me (which is more what this thread was aimed at solving).

I thankyou a for the input though. I hadn't seen those 2 threads you linked.

 

[plumsmum2005]

I do not completely agree with timeouts. I tend to try to work with positive reinforcement, these little guys are smart enough to actually become resentful! It isn't easy, but you have to try to figure out the different bite triggers and avoid those triggers! A trigger for my JoJo was, every morning when I took them out of the cage I would tend to get nailed. So I started using a perch for him to step up on. It took me a while to realize, but the issue was not me reaching into the cage, but the issue was when I first took him out I would want to hug him. And poor guy had not taken his morning dump yet!
The biting is a learned behavior! That is why,

"The only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs."

I am slow, that sentence took me so long to click!
My wife's Bongo (formally the barbarian) was a complete terrorist, to me!
I am presently housesitting him for the next two days, and you talk about quirks! He is one tough conure! Since I stopped trying to use the method of forcing him into submission, proving that I was bigger, we get along very well! But even with this there are rules that I need to follow. One of which is, he being a conure, he loves affection and cuddling! Rule, he is allowed to rub his head on my fingers but I must not move my fingers because then if I'm moving my fingers it's me touching him and he gets upset at that!

Can relate to this with a Conure I have to stay, wants affection but not keen on being touched anywhere other than his head. Could pick him up in a towel, see no hands involved and then scratch his head till the cows came home. Try to pick him up or get him to step up using fingers or hands, forget it!

 

[ZephyrFly]

I do not completely agree with timeouts. I tend to try to work with positive reinforcement, these little guys are smart enough to actually become resentful! It isn't easy, but you have to try to figure out the different bite triggers and avoid those triggers! A trigger for my JoJo was, every morning when I took them out of the cage I would tend to get nailed. So I started using a perch for him to step up on. It took me a while to realize, but the issue was not me reaching into the cage, but the issue was when I first took him out I would want to hug him. And poor guy had not taken his morning dump yet!
The biting is a learned behavior! That is why,

"The only bite that can't be rewarded is the one that never occurs."

I am slow, that sentence took me so long to click!
My wife's Bongo (formally the barbarian) was a complete terrorist, to me!
I am presently housesitting him for the next two days, and you talk about quirks! He is one tough conure! Since I stopped trying to use the method of forcing him into submission, proving that I was bigger, we get along very well! But even with this there are rules that I need to follow. One of which is, he being a conure, he loves affection and cuddling! Rule, he is allowed to rub his head on my fingers but I must not move my fingers because then if I'm moving my fingers it's me touching him and he gets upset at that!

Can relate to this with a Conure I have to stay, wants affection but not keen on being touched anywhere other than his head. Could pick him up in a towel, see no hands involved and then scratch his head till the cows came home. Try to pick him up or get him to step up using fingers or hands, forget it!

Can relate too, my Pazu likes to sit in my hand like an icecream cone. I can almost do what i like with him like this if it doesnt require my other hand.

 

[Flboy]

Just as an update to let you know how so many perfect plans go poof in the daylight.
As I said, I am day one in housesitting bongo, the Barbarian and I expected it to go so well! Well reality? I'm not bleeding badly!
He tried to rip my hand off because I offered him a piece of popcorn without permission! So, after he calmed down I put him to bed early!, Then the wife calls me and when I tell her bongo is in bed she starts in on me why am I putting him in before his bedtime so I am now being dumped on by both of them!
Reality? Both Bongo and I are confused and we are still trying to understand each other!
Wife? Different forum!

 

[ZephyrFly]

Update:

I didn't want to jinx this too soon, but basically a day after I made this thread, Pazu chilled out. Haven't had to put any toweling to test (but I have been attempting introduce a towel. Which only results in him pouncing on and biting it, nipping at me if I move it around. Normal Pazu stuff).

Back to cuddling into my hand like a fluffy ice cream cone. Although he has gone back to avoiding my boyfriend but that is normal/I've always assumed this meant I was the favourite.

Thank you everyone for your help and advice! I expect Now I've put this up he'll do something but for now, all is back to normal.