Yellow-shouldered or Blue front?

[Aquila]

So I'm not a real amazon species expert (calling henpecked!) but Lola doesn't quite appear to me to be a blue front as claimed. I know they can have varying amounts of blue, but she seems to lack really any blue on her head besides a few wisps by her cere.

She does have a lovely wash of blue down her neck and chest though, and she's also notably smaller than her male counterpart. It's hard to tell from the pictures but her upper mandible is partially tan/horn colored, though overall dark, it's still lighter than either of my two males. Her overall feather color is also slightly lighter and more olive green than dark green.

Opinions?

This picture gives a good example of the blue wash down her chest.

 

[chris-md]

I opine that she is beautiful, whatever she is

 

[Aquila]

I opine that she is beautiful, whatever she is

Thank you! I wish she was as cuddly as she is cute, but I think I'd lose my fingers!

 

[Kiwibird]

She looks like a blue front to me. It's the beak that's the giveaway. It's blocky and looks like virtually all dark gray. Yellow shoulders have a narrower/more rounded overall horn color beak. It is also possible she is a hybrid, but she has to have at least some blue front in her.

How old is she? Any idea? I don't really have many pictures from the first few years we had Kiwi, but I used to question if he was a BFA or some kind of hybrid because he had barely any blue on his front (though he had a lot near his vent). He had maybe 5 or 6 tiny blue feathers on each side near his cere. He still has very little blue compared to most blue fronts, but it has slowly started to fill in so he has a little splash now. I think improved diet did it and the fact amazons colors continue to spread throughout their lives.

(I know these are pretty terrible quality, but the first is about a year and then about 2 years after we got him where he really had no blue to speak of and the last one is about 3 years in when his blue finally sprung up quite significantly after a big molt (within a few months he randomly went from a few blue feathers to a good amount). My profile pic shows his blue as of last summer, so it is a HUGE difference after all these years now on a good diet:

 

[Aquila]

Both the male and female are 18 years old. And like I said in my post, her beak is partially horn colored, so I'm thinking hybrid or just poor breeding, though I don't know her origins since neither are banded. In the months that I've had her, even with an improved diet I don't see any more blue than I did, but here's hoping! The blue on her neck and chest is very nice though, which I've found to be less common than it should be in Blue fronts.

I really wish there was a way I could do some DNA comparisons! Need to call up some friends!

 

[henpecked]

IMO if she doesn't have a dark beak then she's a hybrid. For sure not a pure YSA either. Is that a breeding pair?

 

[Aquila]

Yeah, this is the breeding pair I got. I was told they're both blue fronts.

 

[Kiwibird]

Both the male and female are 18 years old. And like I said in my post, her beak is partially horn colored, so I'm thinking hybrid or just poor breeding, though I don't know her origins since neither are banded. In the months that I've had her, even with an improved diet I don't see any more blue than I did, but here's hoping! The blue on her neck and chest is very nice though, which I've found to be less common than it should be in Blue fronts.

I really wish there was a way I could do some DNA comparisons! Need to call up some friends!

She may well be a hybrid. She looks like she is/has more dominant physical traits of an aestiva aestiva with atypical facial coloration (virtually no blue) and has closer wing colorations to a aestiva xanthopteryx (that big yellow shoulder and red in the wing pit). In fact, both those birds look hybrids between the 2 BFA subspecies (and AA/AX hybrids are common). AA's tend to be small, more olive-y and stockier, AX's tend to be more streamlined, more lime-green and quite a bit bigger. I guess the photos really don't show the horn color, it just looks like some lighter areas and darker areas of gray.

Kiwi's beak used to be more mottled with some ashy gray patches (now it's pretty solid dark gray), and it did take a few years before he started getting the blue and he still doesn't have much (he's about 17 now, was around 10 when we got him). Dietary changes take a long time to show up, they have to heal the inside of the bird before you see the changes on the outside. You haven't had them too long. I bet both will change quite a bit in physical appearance over the next few years! Whatever she is, she is a pretty girl and that is an adorable pair! Even if they don't care to snuggle with humans, they look like they'd be adorable-ness overload snuggling each other.

 

[Aquila]

Yeah, they often sit beak-to-beak together, it's what made me decide to get them!

I'm hoping maybe the color of her beak grows out and it's just a nutritional thing, I need to take her out to do her nails again soon (she's also missing two toes in the back on one foot) and see if I can't get some of the built up layers off her beak that she's not scraping off.