Yellow Naped Amazon Advice

[Mallory]

I am a new member of the board and I am sorry that my first post is asking for advice. However this community seems like a good place to start!
I am considering adopting a 13 year old female yellow naped Amazon with a very troubled past. Her "original" owner deliberately exposed the bird to hard drugs on a regular basis and neglected her, but in no way socialized or bonded with her. The bird learned to be wary of females and attempts to attack any women that get near her. She also pulled out feathers on her wings to the down but not to the skin - she has not plucked since getting out of this situation. I work at a Nature Center, and I am one of two animal caretakers. My coworker is the one who adopted her and an African grey out of this bad situation. He honestly took them only to get them away from the abuse, and literally watched these birds go through drug withdrawals. He has had these 2 birds for 3.5 months and is able to scratch both of them on the head but nothing else. They are good talkers and when he is around, the Amazon gets VERY animated, pupils pinning, tail feather fanned out, talking up a storm. They have both been moved around to a few different homes by this caretaker and now reside at the rather busy/noisy Nature Center. A week ago I began working with this Amazon, and at first she lunged at me through the cage and I could not stand near her when she was out. She is still aggressive when the caretaker is around and gets very hormonal. However, when I work with her and the caretaker is not present, now she will allow me to pick her up (I use a wooden perch or leather gloves at this point). If I talk to her she will calm down and has started to preen, stand on one leg and even get sleepy eyes and puff her feathers out at me. I recognize this body language from my work around wild birds (rehabilitation volunteer) and pet doves/my hand raised European starling as well as the parrots I have worked around. At first she was apt to walk over and bite my hand, but I began to push gently into the bites instead of removing my hand, making no noise whatsoever, and she no longer uses her beak aggressively. The first day she was very overstimulated and I received 30 bites (hence my use of heavy leather gloves which she is totally comfortable around). She would walk over to my hand and chomp down aggressively, I never reacted which is much easier when you are wearing welding gloves! A few days later I brought it down to maybe 5 and she would give up, now she does not even attempt to bite. She does use her beak to step up and balance and I can recognize the difference. The bites she has given me are hard attempts to grab my flesh and twist. She has broken skin multiple times through my leather welding gloves and made bruises. The bites however are becoming more and more rare. Yesterday I was passing her between two gloved hands and a perch and she knows "step up" very well. Obviously I cannot pet her and I do not chase her - I let her come to me to be held and always watch her body language.
In her current situation the caretaker spends almost no time with her - he has a Goffins cockatoo which he hand raised and spends most of his "bird time" with, and when he does bond with these birds it is mostly with the grey. Since the birds are at work he does not have much time to spend with either of them. The Amazon is also on a seed diet, if I do adopt her she will be switched to a “chop” diet with Roudybush pellets as a base and plenty of fresh fruits and veggies. I would like to phase seeds out and use them as training treats only. We have talked about me adopting her IF I can work with her and get her comfortable with me. He still says that she cannot be around women but when he is out of the room she does not exhibit the hormonal/aggressive behavior. I know he has only had the birds a short while and I see potential in her.
Now for my question. I am fully aware of how much damage Amazon beaks can do, of how long these birds live and how much of a commitment they are. I own/have owned other animals that are big commitments but never one with the potential to outlive me. (I am 22 if you are wondering). My living situation is stable and I do not foresee a time where I will not be able to own this bird. However, I have also not owned a parrot in the past and I know the typical advice is to acquire a smaller bird as "training wheels" and then when you are ready or the smaller parrot passes acquire the larger species. I really have no interest in that and was not even looking for a parrot before I fell for this bird. Is there any reason it would be a bad idea to work with and eventually adopt this bird? I have seen progress in the week I have worked with her and I have plenty of time to work with her before making this decision. Since you guys know much more about Amazon and general parrot behavior than I do, I would love some input on the situation! I guess I am mostly concerned because I know yellow naped Amazons are a handful and will make a difficult first parrot, but I am reading everything I can find about them and am willing to put in the time to work with her!
(I am sorry my post is so long, I wanted to include all details about this bird and she does have a bit of a history.)

 

[henpecked]

Welcome to the forum, thanks for wanting to take on an older bird. yes she could out live you, that's why we socialize our zons so that someone else other than ourself could take care of them and give them a future. (if something happens to us). I think you'd be perfect for adopting an older hen nape. First of all, you care enough to look for help/advice. I don't think you're having any real hormonal issues yet(that will come later and is not a big deal with hens). The issues you are having is her having bonded to a male in the past so she's want another male now. I think you are well on your way to overcoming that after seeing your history. BTW thanks for all the history. I'd say go for it. In the future you might have an issue with her "falling" for another male(future BF or hubby for example) but i wouldn't let that deter me. I think your hen would have a hard time finding someone better than you to be her buddy. Hope you can join in on the forum and learn more about sharing life with a amazon. BTW i share my home with 5 YNA among other zons and somehow make it work.

 

[Kiwibird]

What kind of MONSTER gives an animal drugs??? Poor babies being exposed to that

I see no reason why you SHOULDN'T adopt her (provide you are 100% committed to working with her and providing her a forever home). It sounds like you feel a true connection with this bird, and that in and of itself, is the best reason you can decide to adopt a parrot. There's a reason you feel that, she is probably an amazing creature who sounds like she wants to trust you and be a part of your "flock". I think that feeling a connection to a bird negates all that 'stuff' about 'starter birds' (which is nonsense to begin with). You aren't a kid either, you are an adult and as much as society would like under 25's to be treated as children these days, by 22 you are more than capable of caring for an animal if you choose (I adopted my zon when I was 19). Amazons, as a species, are pretty resilient birds (though they can take a while to learn to trust again after being abused). It is also a misnomer that they "hate" one gender. That is a socialization issue, not an inherent trait of the species. I adopted my amazon knowing he "hated women" It took some work, but he is VERY bonded to me now.

On a personal note, I am quite fond of the amazon attitude. They are good, strong birds who aren't overly sensitive and are fairly independent. They also form strong bonds with their human flock, and when provided proper care, properly trained and socialized, they make WONDERFUL companion birds. Even rescues with a past can get over their prior traumas and blossom into the best birds you will ever meet Yes, they do get hormonal and can get overstimulated, but once you learn to read your bird and how to handle hormones/overstimulation, it really becomes a non-issue.

 

[SoCalWendy]

Welcome, and thanks for sharing your story. I think she would be lucky to have someone so committed like you are. I dont have any experience with amazons, but from what I read so far I believe you are definitely on the right track. Stick around the Amazon people on here are amazing, and very knowledgeable as you can already tell. Welcome, and I look forward to following up on this one. Keep us posted.

 

[Doublete]

I think you sound like a wonderful owner for her! I adopted my girl in March off of craigslist and thankfully she was never abused or neglected. She's very well adjusted, social, and healthy.

So I don't have any advice on getting over your hurdles but give it time... She sounds like she's already trying hard to forgive the humans that have so far shown to be unreliable.

 

[Mallory]

Well I am amazed already by this bird! I worked with her this morning and it went as usual, one bite when I startled her moving my hand around her a little too fast, and I pushed up into it gently again and she let go and got over it. I figured our progress today would be slow and she would remain distant as she had in the past.
Then this afternoon I worked with her for about an hour before I left work and that's when something amazing happened. I was holding the perch (it's a wooden dowel like the kind that sometimes come with parrot cages) with the welding gloves on my hands. I was sitting cross-legged in a chair and my leg was helping to support the rather heavy 4' perch. She eventually climbed up on my glove and began to play with my shoelace! She's never been very playful, and for her to be comfortable enough around me after a week to play, preen and relax seemed like wonderful progress already.
Then something unforgettable happened. She rested her head against the glove and rubbed it into the glove gently, her head feathers fluffed up but her eyes very soft. Now I had some extreme apprehensions about touching this bird without gloves - I have seen the bites they can deliver and even through those gloves they are painful! But I felt like I should trust her, so I very quietly took the glove off my other hand and started to pet her behind her head. We ended up cuddling, me preening her head, for about a half hour. When I would stop she would ask for more, and I could easily recognize when she was getting a little too excited and took breaks to let her calm back down. I still can't believe she let me pet her already. This is the bird that I was told attacks women on sight and she is bonding with me after a week of apprehensive handling. I think it's pretty clear I will be adopting her after today although it will probably be a long time before she comes home with me - one change in her life at a time is enough!

 

[Flboy]

So amazing! I envy your travel!

 

[Kiwibird]

Well I am amazed already by this bird! I worked with her this morning and it went as usual, one bite when I startled her moving my hand around her a little too fast, and I pushed up into it gently again and she let go and got over it. I figured our progress today would be slow and she would remain distant as she had in the past.
Then this afternoon I worked with her for about an hour before I left work and that's when something amazing happened. I was holding the perch (it's a wooden dowel like the kind that sometimes come with parrot cages) with the welding gloves on my hands. I was sitting cross-legged in a chair and my leg was helping to support the rather heavy 4' perch. She eventually climbed up on my glove and began to play with my shoelace! She's never been very playful, and for her to be comfortable enough around me after a week to play, preen and relax seemed like wonderful progress already.
Then something unforgettable happened. She rested her head against the glove and rubbed it into the glove gently, her head feathers fluffed up but her eyes very soft. Now I had some extreme apprehensions about touching this bird without gloves - I have seen the bites they can deliver and even through those gloves they are painful! But I felt like I should trust her, so I very quietly took the glove off my other hand and started to pet her behind her head. We ended up cuddling, me preening her head, for about a half hour. When I would stop she would ask for more, and I could easily recognize when she was getting a little too excited and took breaks to let her calm back down. I still can't believe she let me pet her already. This is the bird that I was told attacks women on sight and she is bonding with me after a week of apprehensive handling. I think it's pretty clear I will be adopting her after today although it will probably be a long time before she comes home with me - one change in her life at a time is enough!

Show her love, compassion and kindness and she will be a friend for life. These amazing animals are social beings, and they seek out friendship. They are incredibly smart too. They know the difference between a human with bad intentions, a human that fears them and one who wants to give them a good life. Best of luck with your new girl!

 

[Bandespresso]

I definitely got a little teary eyed reading her story. It sounds like you have a lifelong best friend on your hands!! I hope you can take her home soon. She will be forever thankful.

 

[Doublete]

I wouldn't wait too long to bring her home. Once she associates you as her person the change of scenery won't cause many issues as long as you are the constant still.

 

[mh434]

Part of her problem is impermanence - moving from one person to another, from one home to another, is extremely stressful for them. They need a home they can count on, and a person to call their own (forever!) to get truly comfortable & become the lovable creatures they are inside.

It will probably take months, but once you have her at home & she gets comfortable (and trusting) of you and her new home, she'll settle in remarkably.

Sammy (in my avatar) is about 14 years old, and was adopted from a poor situation. He was loved by his owner, but hated by his wife. When he passed away, she put Sammy & his cage out in the rain and cold, and left him there. Many calls from neighbors resulted in him being picked up by a rescue organization, who called me.

Even though I've had Sammy for a couple of years, he's still not 100% acclimatized to his new home, but he's getting there. He has mostly good (i.e. happy) days now, with occasional bouts of orneriness that can take your breath (and hide) away.

Little things can set them off - for example, I absolutely can NOT approach Sammy if I'm wearing a black or navy blue shirt! He attacks me violently if I do. Change into a white shirt, and he's pleasant as can be.

Such are the trials and tribulations of 'Zons. Learn their likes & dislikes, give them love...and room...and they'll reward you. It IS worth the effort!

 

[Mallory]

Thank you so much everyone for the great advice! I decided to take her home today since everything was set up already and she has been getting severely hormonal with my coworker. It's crazy how much different she is around him! When I work with her alone after awhile she is so calm and sweet and asks for pets. When he is around she throws temper tantrums to try and get his attention and attempts to steal chunks of my flesh. Over the weekend she was losing her mind trying to get him to pay attention to her and I'm sure it was extremely stressful for her.

So I brought her home today, and I wasn't sure how she was going to take it! I live in an apartment (no worries about noise, it's very pet friendly and an old building with thick practically noise proof walls) so there are tons of new noises she will hear, plus I have two huskies and as far as I know she has never seen big dogs. I also have a European starling and a pigeon, and of course all of the scenery is different than she is used to as well! She took everything in stride and doesn't seem a bit concerned about her new home. When I worked with her a little bit ago she was very calm and eventually asked me for pets again. I'm so excited to share my life with her and amazed she is so tolerant of all of these changes.

 

[Taw5106]

I agree with the others, you sound like a perfect candidate to be a parront. I took Buddy in, my GCA about 1.5 years ago after his owners passed. He's 25 years old and I do think about who will care for him if he outlives me. He's a one person bird, but I have found one person at his vet's office, a tech that he is OK with. Being in your early 20s, that shouldn't be an issue, you two just get to be together longer.

Keep working with her and patience is key. I've been told Buddy has a large vocabulary but so far he will say Hello, Wow, and last week he suddenly said Love you. We watched my niece's graduation online, on our TV and as they read the names out, he was repeating them in what we call his REDRUM voice (the voice the kid talks in from the movie The Shining), and he closet talks, meaning he will start talking when no one is in the room. Someone on this forum said that rehomed parrots are like a locked treasure chest, you have to find the keys to unlock them and their secrets. I love that because it is so true.

 

[Kiwibird]

Thank you so much everyone for the great advice! I decided to take her home today since everything was set up already and she has been getting severely hormonal with my coworker. It's crazy how much different she is around him! When I work with her alone after awhile she is so calm and sweet and asks for pets. When he is around she throws temper tantrums to try and get his attention and attempts to steal chunks of my flesh. Over the weekend she was losing her mind trying to get him to pay attention to her and I'm sure it was extremely stressful for her.

So I brought her home today, and I wasn't sure how she was going to take it! I live in an apartment (no worries about noise, it's very pet friendly and an old building with thick practically noise proof walls) so there are tons of new noises she will hear, plus I have two huskies and as far as I know she has never seen big dogs. I also have a European starling and a pigeon, and of course all of the scenery is different than she is used to as well! She took everything in stride and doesn't seem a bit concerned about her new home. When I worked with her a little bit ago she was very calm and eventually asked me for pets again. I'm so excited to share my life with her and amazed she is so tolerant of all of these changes.

Congrats on bringing her home! I bet once she settles in, she will be thrilled to have a loving home. Just keep working with her, and remember it's not a race, go at HER pace What she was doing with your coworker and biting you over it is called displacement biting. I would suggest you read over the amazon body language thread and biting mod thread to learn more about how to read your new friend and how/why she may bite. And stick around on the forum, you'll learn a lot and have tons of support to help earn your birds trust and eventually get her socialized

 

[Birdman666]

What kind of MONSTER gives an animal drugs??? Poor babies being exposed to that

They're not so much giving the bird drugs as using them in close proximity of the birds, and the drugs they are using are the "airborne" variety. The bird inhales them. Their air sacs are more sensitive than our lungs, so it takes less exposure for them... and is more potent.

Many years ago I did quite literally see a cockatoo on crack... (Rescued from an Oakland Crackhouse.) IT ISN'T FUNNY! And they do go through withdrawals.

 

[Mallory]

From what I was told they took it a step further than just using the drugs around the birds and actually blew the smoke into the birds' faces to get them "high". It was a nasty environment and I know they were at least addicted to cocaine as well as exposed to marijuana and a lot of cigarette smoke. Who knows what other toxins they were exposed to in that time as well. It's a terrible story and I am thankful my coworker got them out of the situation even if he wasn't actively seeking 2 more large birds at the time (he already has a hand raised Goffin's cockatoo). I was told she is supposedly 13 years old but I can't imagine the original owners had her all that time. Regardless, she is in a much better situation now and doing so well considering her history! The feathers on her plucked wing are even starting to molt out and I see some new pinfeathers coming through. Speaking of feathers, she will be clipped as I am just not equipped to deal with a flying amazon. My other two birds are flighted but they also cannot climb with their faces

 

[Doublete]

My zon is flighted.... She tends to be too lazy to fly anywhere though. If I leave her on the play stand and walk out of her sight she starts to contemplate it... But it's a very rare occasion.