Wing Clipping?

[DurHandler]

My mother used to raise and hand feed Quaker parrots long ago then we took a 'break' from birds but I really want a Macaw. I've been noticing however that some (most) people keep their macaws flighted and was curious about this.

The Quakers were always clipped but they were purely house birds and I never thought much of it. What are the pros and cons on clipping vs not clipping?

 

[Alisana]

Pros:

Healthier for bird - gives them regular exercise.
Mental/physical stimulation
Nothing more majestic than a bird in flight...
More independence

Cons:

Risk of flying away. If bird isn't familiar with getting back home (recall trained) and can't fly in different types/speeds of wind, it may have difficulty getting back to you.
Risk of flying into fans/objects
Wing injury

There is most likely a more comprehensive list out there, but can't think of them all. There are advantages and disadvantages of allowing free flight; I personally don't/wouldn't on a macaw. First, I wouldn't be game enough to pin down a fully grown macaw to clip it's wings, second, given we have other pets (dog/cats), I want the bird to be able to have an escape route to go to the highest point, and third, I love free flight training. I think it's a great bonding experience between owner and bird.

 

[Aims]

A lot of people get birds clipped so they can't fly out a door and escape/be lost so to speak. But from experience I have lost a bird from exactly that and he was clipped. Clipping doesn't take away full flight as they can still glide down off things and take off to a degree, they just won't get a lot of height. But if they manage to get out the door or you have taken them outside thinking they are clipped and its safe, if they get a fright and try to fly, you only need a little wind to get ahold of them and then they are gone and they won't be strong enough to fly back to you against the wind. Thats how I lost mine he was frightened just as a door was opened and out and up he went. Never to be seen again

I now have a harness for my Ecky so we can go outside and if he is out and about in the house the doors are all locked shut.

 

[Alisana]

If you're paranoid about flying out the door, or want free flight without risk of flying away, you can always set up a netting enclosure in your backyard:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDGVgs_Qh3Q]Elmo practicing his noises - YouTube[/ame]

Edit: I'm planning on making something like this either late this year or next year. The front door rarely get's opened, so it's mostly the back door that is being opened and closed all the time.

 

[Featheredsamurai]

I prefer keeping birds un clipped if possible. A clipped bird is not a good flier and will have trouble maneuvering in the air. A grounded clipped bird will unlikely be able to take off but if they get out they will be a easy catch for a cat or wild animal.

The best thing(apart from physical and mental health) is that you can train them to fly back to you, something a clipped bird won't do. My fully flighted galah Rosie is harnessed trained for when we leave the house, and when she's out I keep her in the family room or a bed room with the door closed so even if the front door happens to be open she can't accidentally fly out and get pulled away by the wind.

 

[Alisana]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma5VOE0UhA4]Elmo Recalling outside - YouTube[/ame]

If you look around as well, you'll see the ropes everywhere. Whenever I go round to visit, I like to play "tag" with Elmo, and I run from rope to rope and he chases me around the netting - each time he lands, he'll give a little macaw laugh.

 

[bkparrot]

When i had macaws i had them clipped twice a year as i live in Brooklyn there are neighbors and pets all around us. They couldn't or wouldn't fly but they could take off and land. My birds had dogs and cats around all day so they were used to them but didnt startle easily around new animals. My B&G used to walk around the floor with my dogs and cats without issues. If the cats got any ideas she would chase them with raised wings and a macaw growl. The best approach depends on your situation.

 

[MonicaMc]

There are many pros and cons to each that people don't realize... this website goes into further detail about them.

Should you clip your parrot


Personally, I feel that clipping for safety in *most* birds is an ignorant reason to clip. That is to say, if a clipped bird gets outside somehow, they are in more danger from predators because they won't be able to fly off, they wont know how to fly down (if they get stuck high in a tree), and even inside the house, if they fly into a trashcan, toilet or otherwise, they'll have a harder time getting out than a flighted bird will. Not to mention, dogs, cats and ferrets.... a clipped bird will end up on the ground where other animals *may* be a danger to them and they may have a harder time getting away. A clipped bird has no control of where they fly, so may fly into walls, doors, etc.

However, a flighted bird can end up getting a concussion and/or breaking their neck if they fly too fast in a panick attack.



Clipped or flighted, it doesn't hurt to have your bird recall trained to come back to you.

 

[Alwese]

All three of my macaws are clipped so I can take them out in public with no fear of them flying away. When I got Kayko, on day #1 he flew into a pot of spaghetti sauce on the stove. On day #2 he hit the ceiling fan in the living room. On day #3 he slammed into the sliding glass door at about 25MPH and it was a wonder he ever lived. I knew then this could not go on and so I had both Doogie and Kayko trimmed the next day. Clifford came later and has never flown and came to me with a "baby trim" and I just kept up trimming all three at the same time. A husband and wife bird trim team comes to the house and trims all three (wings, beaks, and nails) for $36. That way I am not hated by the birds for doing the trimming and that is a small price to pay for macaw ownersip and two people struggling for 45 minutes.

 

[Alisana]

All three of my macaws are clipped so I can take them out in public with no fear of them flying away. When I got Kayko, on day #1 he flew into a pot of spaghetti sauce on the stove. On day #2 he hit the ceiling fan in the living room. On day #3 he slammed into the sliding glass door at about 25MPH and it was a wonder he ever lived. I knew then this could not go on and so I had both Doogie and Kayko trimmed the next day. Clifford came later and has never flown and came to me with a "baby trim" and I just kept up trimming all three at the same time. A husband and wife bird trim team comes to the house and trims all three (wings, beaks, and nails) for $36. That way I am not hated by the birds for doing the trimming and that is a small price to pay for macaw ownersip and two people struggling for 45 minutes.

I am curious as to what kind of trim they do?

I've seen all different types of trims:
Primaries
Show Clip (secondaries only, primaries left intact)
Primaries and Secondaries
Primaries, Secondaries and Tertiaries (excessive IMO)
And there is a 5th, which is like above, but looks bloody horrible, and excessive. Almost like someone hacked away at the poor bird's wings.

I honestly can never remember which feathers control which flight options. It was something like primaries to lift ?? and secondaries for thrust, or vice versa. (I always have to look it up) There was a particular trim, that if done, was the recommended one as it allows birds to gently glide down to the floor.

Information on a different type of clip here: Proper Wing Clipping

I haven't clipped my budgies in a while, but I had to for fear of them hurting themselves. With them, I only took off 2, maybe 3 feathers. They could flutter down, and had enough lift to go from the cage floor to the nearest perch, but not enough to actually fly away. Unfortunately, while I love the idea of leaving a bird flighted, they never grasped the concept of a window or mirror, so I constantly worried about them cracking a keel bone or breaking their neck if they ran into something... I am going to have a crack at training them for recall flight outside in a netted enclosure. I just have to find a weekend to build the flight area and work it out from there. We'll see if it's successful with budgies or not.

My macaw/s I plan on leaving flighted from the very beginning.

 

[Inverse]

I went through this same dilemma but as soon as she started flying to me from her stand, I decided I'd never clip her.
I'll be getting a harness soon and then on to free flight training and whenever she is out of her cage I ensure all doors are closed and the ceiling fans are off.
The small inconveniences having her flighted cause are more than outweighed by seeing her fly.

 

[MikeyTN]

Alisana, I personally do the primary to partially the secondary(not the secondary with the primary), about half way into the wing. I hope I explained it right. I do that with my babies as it is a whole lot easier to train especially when there's multiple.

With all that said, I do NOT trim my adults if I don't have to. I had to trim one cause it is impossible to catch him once he gets out and he bites fiercely. But he no longer do that anymore so I'm allowing him to grow out his feathers during the molt. I prefer not to clip if at all possible. Right now, none of my adults are clipped. When babies goes through fledging period, all they want to do is fly fly fly. They're programmed to do so. BUT a few babies will be calmer and not leave you much but to just take a spin and come back. Not flying like they're going crazy like some babies will do. Like our Nico, we decided to keep her after the trauma she went through when she was a baby, since she pulled through all the hardship, we decided she was meant to stay here. I have never clipped her but she doesn't ever leave me, she likes to go for a spin and come right back to me. She flies to me on command so I never had the need to clip her at all. I'm not completely against wing clipping as there's needs for it when it's necessary. As long as it's clipped the right way, even the wind can't let them do a take off. Most of the time they're only clipped a few feathers so they can still take off with a full wind. I've tried it already, trust me, years ago one of my babies flew way up in the tree but I got him back down. I re-clipped and he couldn't take off in the high wind. I was just going outside with him on my shoulders so I was ignorant at that time when he took off....As long as you do the half way clip, they won't be flying trust me.

I think it's cruel for the excessive clip as they clip the wings all the way from the tip to the body. I've seen that done before and it's cruel!!!

 

[MeganMango]

Mango had a baby clip already done when he arrived. I think it is similar to a show clip as you cant tell unless he has his wings out. He has just the very ends taken off of about 5-7 feathers on the inside of the wing, most of the feathers are intact and those that are clipped and mostly intact. The vet was aghast and actually said it wasnt nearly enough and wanted to take more but I wouldnt let her. I want him to be fully flighted eventually, but I want him better trained/bonded first. He can get about 3 feet of height and he glides nicely to the floor/chair/couch/my clothes. He flies from object to object over short distances of about 4-5 feet, but actually prefers to walk around. He is just learning about this because hes just a baby. When hes getting ready to try to fly to something he squats with his wings out wiggling his butt for a good minute before he works up the nerve. He has a lot of freedom for a clipped bird, but he doesnt really look up, he generally flies to things below him right now. This is pretty alright with me as he is learning and I worry about him having complete access to all the high spots in the house. Until he is trained to come when we call him and will wear a harness (this has been a huge battle for us) he will stay clipped like this. We are working on a completely bird safe room with toys, ropes, perches etc throughout, but we are still bird-proofing/building. I am glad Mango was clipped initially, even though I want him fully flighted eventually, I think it has made training and bonding easier. I would lose my mind if anything happened to him. Im not an experienced bird owner so I think this is best for us at the moment.

 

[Alwese]

Here is a pic of my boy Kayko shortly after he had a professional trim at Exotic Bird Hospital, Jacksonville Florida. They certainly knew how much trim to give him and I have simply duplicated this trim in succeeding years with other people since it was very expensive at the vets. Click on picture to enlarge so you can really see his trim. When his wings are folded you really can't tell he is trimmed. He does sit on top his cage and wave his wings for exercise, sometimes as long as a half hour at a time. The other macaws do not do this. Kayko with all his feathers was a real flier at age 20. He has not flown now for 10 years. He is 30 1/2

 

[MikeyTN]

Alwese, that's how I clip my birds!

 

[MonicaMc]

This other recent thread may be of interest...
http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/25306-wing-clipping.html?highlight=clipping

Secondaries *should never* be trimmed if you are trying to prevent flight. Clipping secondaries only slows a bird down but does not prevent flight in itself. Clipping primaries and secondaries may only lead to severe damage to the bird because they have no "brakes" to slow down. It's pretty much known as a "butcher clip".

The only reason I've heard of clipping secondaries is to slow *young* parrots down, but not to completely hinder them from flight... and this for preparation of free-flight. Here's the article.
Wing Clipping and Trimming by Steve Hartman    The Parrot University



I have heard of a study done in Europe on lost birds. The study was the percentage of clipped vs flighted parrots lost, and the results were about 50/50... meaning that clipped parrots have the same chance of getting lost as flighted parrots do. Please don't quote me on this, as I'd love to read this myself! And if anyone can find this, please share! I've had no luck myself in finding it.

I've heard of clipped parrots getting lost, including a scarlet macaw that was clipped that day at a vets office and the owner took his macaw out on a walk... The macaw became startled and took off flying... type of clip done, I don't know... I only know the bird was clipped and still managed to take off. The good thing though is that the owner still got his bird back safely.

 

[MeganMango]

Despite being clipped I would say Mango can actually fly. We are psychotically careful about opening the door here. There are signs on both sides warning to ensure the bird is locked up before the door is opened. I would warn against a false security that clipping is going to protect your bird. Mangos clip prevents him from getting much height, but he still zooms around pretty well. I looked again at his wings last night, and he has had about 1.5 inches removed from 5 primaries on each wing. I will probably keep his this way until he agrees to come when we call and possibly wear a harness. I suspect its going to take a while, hes a real stubborn bird. This is one reason Im nervous to let him be fully flighted. He straight up refuses to listen sometimes, and is he found himself up a tree or somewhere high in the house, he might just refuse to come down. I cant make him understand its for his own safety.

 

[SandyBee]

I learnt that Bosley can fly,he came to us with his wings clipped. I had just gotten his T-stand and we were wheeling him into the other room, we hit a bump on the floor it startled him and he flew 20 feet. He has done this a few times now LOL, but being an amazon he only flies if he is startled, so I am letting his wings grow and will make my decisions from there.If he continues to listen and if he comes when asked then I want him to have his flight feathers. Even with his wings clipped i will not take him outside without a harness.

The rescue where we got Bosley from told us a really sad story. One of the doctors that sits on the board had a Macaw that he went everywhere with, had this bird for 20 years. He often took it out walking down the street and the bird would never leave him. One day though an ambulance turned on his siren right where they were and the bird panicked, flew right into traffic.

 

[Alisana]

[...]

The rescue where we got Bosley from told us a really sad story. One of the doctors that sits on the board had a Macaw that he went everywhere with, had this bird for 20 years. He often took it out walking down the street and the bird would never leave him. One day though an ambulance turned on his siren right where they were and the bird panicked, flew right into traffic.

That is so sad... I've heard of a few stories like that before.

That'll be why people recommend a harness if you are out and about in populated areas, even if they are free flight trained and even then, when doing free flight, be mindful of the location you pick.