Why is Eucalyptus bad?

[Akraya]

Looking at safe and unsafe woods for my pending T stand project and eucalyptus is on the bad list. Considering Australia is covered in it and there's ALWAYS cockatoos chewing on the trees around our house, why is it unsafe? Someone please enlighten me!!!

 

[wenz2712]

Looking at safe and unsafe woods for my pending T stand project and eucalyptus is on the bad list. Considering Australia is covered in it and there's ALWAYS cockatoos chewing on the trees around our house, why is it unsafe? Someone please enlighten me!!!

I am not sure why you have seen Eucalyptus on the Unsafe list as this has always been known as a Safe Wood for Birds! I give Codie these branches all the time

Here is a list of safe woods and you will see Eucalyptus is listed

Toxic and Safe Plants/Trees for Birds - Household Poisons

 

[Alisana]

I use eucalyptus branches for my budgies without issues. What list did you see it as toxic?

If you grab it from the floor though, ensure to disinfect it, even consider baking it in the oven.

 

[Akraya]

Was on some list on this forum, also the first two google searches. Very confusing stuff! Thanks guys, really appreciate the input =)

 

[Oedipussrex]

Generally Eucalypts are not on the harmful lists, from what I've seen.

But it is prudent to remember where the birds we are keeping are from, and what kinds of foods and foliage they would normally be exposed to, and what their species have adapted to. in this case australian natives are generally completely fine with it.
And then I have heard of some individual macaws who just cant have as many actual leafy branches with gum nuts, because they end up eating too much and vomiting...

 

[BradGC]

I've always heard that it's safe but I just saw on that link that it said "eucalyptus- dried, dyed or treated". I understand that treated isn't good, but I actually dry my eucalyptus branches before using them as perches.. but now it's kind of concerning. Andt another thing, the list says that parsley is toxic, which I'm 99% sure is not true, I give my alex parsley and parsley stalks frequently along with basil leaves, dill, fennel etc and he's fine from eating them.


Something that I have actually been interested in finding is a good live tree at the nursery and growing it in a pot and using it as a kind of perching play gym, but it's hard to find one with a good structure and good horizontal branches to perch that's also safe to chew

 

[Alisana]

Hmm - it could be a species thing?

As an example - there are some fruits that macaws can eat in the wild, but not captivity (I remember watching this in a documentary) because in the wild they have access to natural clay licks to help stablise the poisons/toxins released by certain fruits/tree saps.

All the people I know who use eucalyptus perches are generally people with cockatoos, budgies and cockatiels - all of which are Australian natives. A quick look in one of my books (Avian Medicine, 2nd Ed. J Samour) - I couldn't see Eucalyptus in their book... I'll keep an eye out though. I'm interested in why it would be toxic.

My main thought is if it's a non-Australian native eating and digesting fresh leaves/branches. Might not go well in their system.

 

[Alisana]

Flicked through Manual of Avian Medicine by Olsen and Orosz, couldn't see eucalyptus there - however, did some searching online. See below.

Eucalypt leaves may contain high concentrations of metabolites that interfere with digestion, such as condensed tannins and lignin, but also high concentrations of potentially toxic metabolites, such as terpenoids, cyanogenic glycosides and formylated phloroglucinol compounds (FPCs) (Moore et al., 2004a)

Source: ScienceDirect.com - Perspectives in Plant Ecology, Evolution and Systematics - A chemical perspective on the evolution of variation in Eucalyptus globulus

This article below, talks about nectar/pollen from Eucalyptus, Callistemon and Banksia - but doesn't mention WHICH plant the below point is talking about.

Toxic substances (especially alkaloids) occur in some pollens but not in those of plants using pollen as a reward

Source: Journal of Avian Medicine and Surgery: The Nutritional, Morphologic, and Physiologic Bases of Nectarivory in Australian Birds

So.. avoid fresh leaves and flowers. Unless it's for a native Australian bird (e.g. Red-Tail black cockatoos can chew on leaves without issue, and lorikeets forage around in the flowers of various Australian plants.

 

[Alisana]

And this would be why my budgies have no issues:

The wild budgerigar has evolved alongside the Eucalyptus tree and over a million years has developed an intimate bond with the tree and its leaves. Wet eucalypt leaves excite and invigorate both the wild and aviary budgerigar into a frenzy of joy. They love to bathe in the wet leaves and breeding hens destructively chew the bark. The eucalyptus oil from the leaves has medicinal properties that stimulate the immune system and promote a strong natural resistance to disease

Source: StateMaster - Encyclopedia: Budgerigar

 

[Alisana]

Alright - a bit more further reading around.

Eucalyptus can be toxic to mammals - which is one of the theories for how it ends up on the 'toxic' list for birds. (Sometimes, people borrow toxic lists for cats/dogs and also apply them to birds as there are some overlaps - e.g. chocolate, coffee, etc)

Avoid 'sappy' branches - the branch that you use for a T-Stand/Playgym should be hard and dry - not soft or sappy. Strip leaves and flowers. Nuts is a debated topic - some parrots are fine, other people say no.

As mentioned before, consider 'baking' the branches - this kills off any organisms that might be present in the wood, and ALSO VERY IMPORTANT - because you are in Australia, lorikeets can be 'silent' carriers of PBFD - they may not show symptoms, otherwise they can contract PBDF then recover after a moult or too (supposedly this is a common thing for lorikeets[1]). There is a chance that an infected bird may have come in contact with that branch, or even pooped on it. Disinfect ANY branch you pick up/cut off and either oven- or sun-bake it.

Hope that helps.

[1] Main reason why if you're a wildlife carer volunteer they check to see if you already keep birds - whether there is risk of your birds infecting the wild ones, or the wild ones infecting your birds.

 

[DebsFlock]

The toxic/nontoxic lists are very confusing indeed, especially for foods. Most have little or no scientific verification behind them. I generally look at the source of the list before I decide how much weight to put on it, and if anything looks odd or implausible, I try to do further research. I mostly buy my perches, so I haven't looked into woods too much, but I've researched the food issues fairly extensively.

I'm guessing the "dried" reference referred to commercially prepared wood, not wood you had baked in your own oven. It may invariably be treated when commercially prepared or something. But the bottom line is that the internet is NOT like a library, nobody insists that information be true before it gets posted, and a lot of stuff gets perpetuated by well-meaning people, even in forums like this. IMHO one should always be skeptical about any list or link even if you totally trust the person who passed it on to you.

I'm not familiar with PBDF, is this different from PBFD (Psitticine beak and feather disease)? My husband lost a beloved 'too to PBFD, and it is a terrible disease. That I would be super-cautious about!

 

[Alisana]

[...]
I'm not familiar with PBDF, is this different from PBFD (Psitticine beak and feather disease)? My husband lost a beloved 'too to PBFD, and it is a terrible disease. That I would be super-cautious about!

Woops! Typo! I'll fix that up now!

But yes, PBFD - if I recall correctly, the disease originated in Australia - first documented in the 1970s...(?), but birds that produce 'dust' (e.g. cockatoos) are the worst affected, which is why Greys are another which it can really knock down.

Even though Akraya has conures - they can still contract it, so something to be aware of when picking up branches. With regards to baking, from what I gather baking in an oven works, but I think there are some commercial places that can do it for you too.

From what I've read for how the disease is spread, it can be via dander, feathers and droppings. Some vets still debate whether it is an airborne disease - even I'm wary on that front. I'm sorry to hear about your partner's too. It's frustrating that they won't produce the vaccine - they have it, but it's not economically viable to produce it.

Back on topic... sort of... from a discussion here amongst avian vets, (Journal of Avian Medicine and Surgery: Controlling and Preventing Disease Transmission in a Hospital Setting) it seems that heat treatment works for disinfecting their tools and to stop spread of infectious diseases.

(And off topic again ) This quote below is another reason why I like avian vets over normal vets - they know how to handle cleaning procedures for their patients. It's little things like this that help protect our birds when we bring them in for regular check-ups.

Avian polyomavirus, avian herpes virus, psittacine beak and feather disease (PBFD), and Chlamydophila psittaci should always be considered in any sick psittacine. With the proper disinfectants, the exam rooms, staff clothing, towels, and veterinarian’s hands can be disinfected once the patient is either hospitalized or discharged for home care.
Any time the above diseases are placed on the differential list, the room is wiped down thoroughly, including the table, floor, chairs, and countertops.
The bottoms of shoes are sprayed before leaving the room and that room is not used for another avian patient for the rest of the morning or afternoon (we will do the same for contagious ferret diseases). In the case of avian polyomavirus, Pacheco’s, and PBFD confirmed cases, that technician will not be allowed to handle other avian patients for the remainder of the day

 

[Pedro]

Eucalyptus - while it appears on many toxic lists I have never been able to find a good reason for it being there. The level of phenols (the toxic elements in eucalyptus) is lower than in many pine species which are considered perfectly safe. While you might want to avoid the foliage there doesn't appear to be any reason to do so. Considering that many lorikeet and cockatoo species eat the flowers and new leaves in the wild, and that it is
the dominant native wood for Australia concern over it's toxicity seems exaggerated.

 

[Alisana]

[...] While you might want to avoid the foliage there doesn't appear to be any reason to do so. [...]

Actually...!

Eucalypt leaves may contain high concentrations of metabolites that interfere with digestion, such as condensed tannins and lignin, but also high concentrations of potentially toxic metabolites, such as terpenoids, cyanogenic glycosides and formylated phloroglucinol compounds (FPCs) (Moore et al., 2004a)

Source: ScienceDirect.com - Perspectives in Plant Ecology, Evolution and Systematics - A chemical perspective on the evolution of variation in Eucalyptus globulus

I posted a few different articles on the front page if you want to check out the paper, it's worth looking through. Some interesting reads in there.

 

[cheri13]

Re: Why is Eucalyptus bad?
I know for a fact that conures, and Eclectus can and do eat Eucalyptus. Flowers and the tender new branches that hold the blossoms. there is no bad effects from the red gum, the blue gum, or the Cineria type..AKA silver dollar. that is what I have on my property. There are 1000s of other varieties so I cant speak for any of the others.