Who has more than one bird....? Help!

[BarnabyRose]

Ok guys, so sorry to keep posting but this will be the last question filled post for a while I promise!

So, we have made the decision to bring home the little baby Timneh African Grey, his name is Oliver. My wife and I have been like 50 times over the last few months and so it is anything but spontaneous, but I put my deposit down today, so it's offical. He will be ready to come home in a month or so, give or take.

Here's what I need help with. First of all, with my Eclectus Emma - how exactly should I make the introductions? I mean I know how to introduce dogs.. Is it the same concept? Surely there is going to be a better way than just sticking them on the same stand together and seeing what happens right? YES we are going to incorporate a quarantine period of at least 45 days, and YES the baby will immediately go through a full exam and blood work and the whole nine yards, just FYI.
Second, in my IDEAL situation, I would like both birds to be kept in the same room, out of cage and free on DIFFERENT manzanita trees, on different sides of the room, while we are home of course.. But not under 100% supervison the entire time.. If possible.. Just as Emma is right now. Again, this is all ideals to me, and I understand it may not work.. But at the very least, I want their cages to be kept in the same room, and worst comes to worst their manzanitas in different rooms. What are your opinions on this set up? Any suggestions, or improvements, or really any feed back at all? Can the cages be kept right next to each other, or is it best to have them on opposite sides of the room? Emma is very quiet and is currently kept in our bedroom, doesn't need to have her cage covered ever, I'm not sure if that will change or not with another bird in the house but I guess we will see.

Finally... I know everybody in the world has their own opinion and reasoning behind wether to clip or not to clip.. But here's my question - Emma is clipped and has always been clipped, I have not had her since she was a baby, I adopted her, but if I had to guess, I would say she was never properly fledged, as she does not seem very sure of herself and her wings, and I am not convinced even if I did never clip them again that she could fly anyway. So right now Oliver is being fully fledged, and is already a great flyer. Part of me wants to keep him flighted because of so many reasons.. And part of me wants to clip him for safety and for training and bonding easier and etc, but I just don't know what to do seeing as if he isn't clipped, I think he may make Emma jealous, maybe make her anxious while flying around and etc, and I feel maybe making them both 'equal' may be the way to go? Again - please give me some advice, or feedback or etc.

Again so sorry for the long rambling post, but hey I figure if anywhere, this would be the place to ramble about birds

B

 

[Terry57]

Perfect place to ramble about birds

I have multiple birds, and have never introduced any of them to each other. I let nature take its course. Some of our birds have become friends, my Pionus and Orange Winged Amazon are best friends now, and they did it completely on their own. My Ringneck and Alex are also sorta friends, they hang out on the same cage and talk to each other, but don't preen each other.
I do have birds who have to be kept on opposite sides of the room as well as they despise each other.

If it is possible, I would put them on opposite sides of the room at first until you get a feel for how they feel about each other.

As far as clipping, I have some birds who are flighted, some who can't fly, and a couple who are clipped. The only reason I have some clipped is to keep the others safe as they are very aggressive. As soon as they moult, I will try again with them being flighted, though.
Two of my conures are very bonded, and one can fly and the other is plucked. Phoe is the one who is plucked, and he has never seemed jealous that Jax can fly.

I bet you are getting so excited to bring your new baby home, and I think it's awesome you are asking questions

 

[BarnabyRose]

Perfect place to ramble about birds

I have multiple birds, and have never introduced any of them to each other. I let nature take its course. Some of our birds have become friends, my Pionus and Orange Winged Amazon are best friends now, and they did it completely on their own. My Ringneck and Alex are also sorta friends, they hang out on the same cage and talk to each other, but don't preen each other.
I do have birds who have to be kept on opposite sides of the room as well as they despise each other.

If it is possible, I would put them on opposite sides of the room at first until you get a feel for how they feel about each other.

As far as clipping, I have some birds who are flighted, some who can't fly, and a couple who are clipped. The only reason I have some clipped is to keep the others safe as they are very aggressive. As soon as they moult, I will try again with them being flighted, though.
Two of my conures are very bonded, and one can fly and the other is plucked. Phoe is the one who is plucked, and he has never seemed jealous that Jax can fly.

I bet you are getting so excited to bring your new baby home, and I think it's awesome you are asking questions

Oh man you have no idea.. Excited is an understatement and that's awesome and extremely interesting, so how many total do you actually have? You have never tried formal introductions even once with any..? Maybe I won't either then, I kind of like the idea of letting whatever is going to happen happen, I do believe however that Emma will not like Oliver - she is quite the attitudey little bird LOL.

 

[Terry57]

HAHA! How many do we have..we have 24 conure size and up parrots, 9 that are a mix of Parrotlets, Budgies and Lovebirds, and 50 assorted softbills

Ekko, my Ekkie, had never been around other birds before he came to us. He was really interested in all the other birds but standoffish, but after 2 years now climbs up to see my CAG, Justice.

Emma may be really interested in Oliver, at least from afar. The cool thing about having multiple birds is that they pick up words from each other so easily. Does Emma talk?

 

[BarnabyRose]

Oh my god you're kidding.... 50?!?! That's the craziest thing I have ever heard! Man if I had it my way I would probably have like 50 as well LOL

And sort of.... She's definitely not an excellent talker; but she does have her little words and phrases.. Her little voice is so cute too you know I may have to keep them separate to be safe at first, and then let whatever is gonna happen happen!

 

[Scott]

I cannot offer any additional advice to what Terry has posted..... she has an unbelievable wealth of experience with multiple birds!!!

Just be aware that Emma will keep precise track of how much attention Oliver receives... right to the precise second!! But seriously, please make certain Emma does not feel she will play second fiddle to a nice new bird!

 

[MonicaMc]

Here's what I need help with. First of all, with my Eclectus Emma - how exactly should I make the introductions? I mean I know how to introduce dogs.. Is it the same concept? Surely there is going to be a better way than just sticking them on the same stand together and seeing what happens right? YES we are going to incorporate a quarantine period of at least 45 days, and YES the baby will immediately go through a full exam and blood work and the whole nine yards, just FYI.

Introducing them or not introducing them is up to you, but it would be a good idea to at least ensure that the birds are trained well enough to ignore each other. You can do this via station training and working with them both individually as well as together.

Second, in my IDEAL situation, I would like both birds to be kept in the same room, out of cage and free on DIFFERENT manzanita trees, on different sides of the room, while we are home of course.. But not under 100% supervison the entire time.. If possible.. Just as Emma is right now. Again, this is all ideals to me, and I understand it may not work.. But at the very least, I want their cages to be kept in the same room, and worst comes to worst their manzanitas in different rooms. What are your opinions on this set up? Any suggestions, or improvements, or really any feed back at all? Can the cages be kept right next to each other, or is it best to have them on opposite sides of the room? Emma is very quiet and is currently kept in our bedroom, doesn't need to have her cage covered ever, I'm not sure if that will change or not with another bird in the house but I guess we will see.

Sounds like a good plan. I know that doesn't answer anything, but the only way to know is to have it happen and figure out which works best for your situation.

Finally... I know everybody in the world has their own opinion and reasoning behind wether to clip or not to clip.. But here's my question - Emma is clipped and has always been clipped, I have not had her since she was a baby, I adopted her, but if I had to guess, I would say she was never properly fledged, as she does not seem very sure of herself and her wings, and I am not convinced even if I did never clip them again that she could fly anyway. So right now Oliver is being fully fledged, and is already a great flyer. Part of me wants to keep him flighted because of so many reasons.. And part of me wants to clip him for safety and for training and bonding easier and etc, but I just don't know what to do seeing as if he isn't clipped, I think he may make Emma jealous, maybe make her anxious while flying around and etc, and I feel maybe making them both 'equal' may be the way to go? Again - please give me some advice, or feedback or etc.

I would not recommend clipping before 6 months of age... better yet, not before at least 1-2 years of age, perhaps older for larger birds. This may be *especially* important for african greys. Please read Pamela Clark's articles, particularly Ethical, Moral and Spiritual Considerations of Companion Parrot Care, where she talks about how everything we know about african grey's phobic behaviors is completely false if you allow the birds to fledge properly. The birds grow up healthier, not only physically, but mentally as well, and end up better, well rounded birds as adults.


A lot of breeders and handraisers say birds are "properly fledged" when they begin flying as chicks, then clip their wings before being weaned. This is not true. A properly fledged chick would never be clipped until they are older, IMO.


Not too many people are aware of the pros and cons to *EACH* side of the clipping vs flighted debate. Please read this article to see each side, if you haven't already.

What do we do with those Wings?




You *DO NOT* need to clip a bird to make training and bonding easier. This is a complete myth. Sure, it makes chasing the bird down easier and shoving our wills on to them, but that doesn't mean that the bird is comfortable. Imagine being grabbed by a tiger, then forced to sit near them as they make sounds at you. A tiger that could kill you at any moment. Any time you try to escape, they simply snatch you again and force you to remain. If you can imagine, it's a very stressful situation.



As an experiment, I had 5 adult, flighted budgies. None of them were tame and friendly. My goal wasn't really to tame them, just to see how comfortable I could get them with me. I started out by feeding them every day by hand first thing in the morning. After the food was empty from my hands, I would replenish the food dishes in their cage.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUx81WHTUwk"]1 Bird in hand Leads to Many - YouTube[/ame]



A month later working with them in this way, I had them flying out of their cage to come and eat from my hands.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlSm4uFZzVU"]More Budgies!!!! - YouTube[/ame]



My experiment was complete, or so I thought! Next thing I knew, I had a previously hand raised and tame cockatiel (a rehomed bird) that had been ignored following me around the room when it came to feeding time. She even landed on me twice, a behavior she never displayed before. She had previously never shown any interest in me before, so this baffled me. Well, it took two weeks, but it finally clicked! She wanted me to feed her!


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q88bN30qOjo"]Sunshine in the Morning - YouTube[/ame]



I took in another rehomed cockatiel that had at least 3 homes prior to mine and the idiots that had her before me were even trying to breed her - until her mate supposedly died by a mouse. Well, she followed Sunshine's lead.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9w9w8nMRmw"]Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



And, given time, her comfort and confidence grew as she learned to accept me. Faye got to the point that she was demanding being fed by hand, despite the fact that there was already food out!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH9ZWxhCSAE"]Not So Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



Which has lead to working with Sunshine's father, a very skittish cockatiel that wanted nothing to do with humans. He's much more comfortable with humans now as you can see in the following video. He is the second cockatiel with a somewhat bald head.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjKmHswgiHs"]Cockatiel Feeding - April 24th - YouTube[/ame]



I've also had to work with Jayde, a red throated conure that was hand raised and a pet at one point in time, but for some reason or another, became fearful of humans while still desperately seeking human interaction. An odd behavior. She went from clinging to her cage for comfort to now clinging to me for comfort. She did come to me clipped, but I allowed her flights to grow out, and I also "listened" to what she needed. I believe this allowed for her to feel more comfortable with me.



What I'm trying to get at, is that with the right type of training, clipping is *NOT* required for training or bonding purposes.

 

[BarnabyRose]

Here's what I need help with. First of all, with my Eclectus Emma - how exactly should I make the introductions? I mean I know how to introduce dogs.. Is it the same concept? Surely there is going to be a better way than just sticking them on the same stand together and seeing what happens right? YES we are going to incorporate a quarantine period of at least 45 days, and YES the baby will immediately go through a full exam and blood work and the whole nine yards, just FYI.

Introducing them or not introducing them is up to you, but it would be a good idea to at least ensure that the birds are trained well enough to ignore each other. You can do this via station training and working with them both individually as well as together.

Second, in my IDEAL situation, I would like both birds to be kept in the same room, out of cage and free on DIFFERENT manzanita trees, on different sides of the room, while we are home of course.. But not under 100% supervison the entire time.. If possible.. Just as Emma is right now. Again, this is all ideals to me, and I understand it may not work.. But at the very least, I want their cages to be kept in the same room, and worst comes to worst their manzanitas in different rooms. What are your opinions on this set up? Any suggestions, or improvements, or really any feed back at all? Can the cages be kept right next to each other, or is it best to have them on opposite sides of the room? Emma is very quiet and is currently kept in our bedroom, doesn't need to have her cage covered ever, I'm not sure if that will change or not with another bird in the house but I guess we will see.

Sounds like a good plan. I know that doesn't answer anything, but the only way to know is to have it happen and figure out which works best for your situation.

Finally... I know everybody in the world has their own opinion and reasoning behind wether to clip or not to clip.. But here's my question - Emma is clipped and has always been clipped, I have not had her since she was a baby, I adopted her, but if I had to guess, I would say she was never properly fledged, as she does not seem very sure of herself and her wings, and I am not convinced even if I did never clip them again that she could fly anyway. So right now Oliver is being fully fledged, and is already a great flyer. Part of me wants to keep him flighted because of so many reasons.. And part of me wants to clip him for safety and for training and bonding easier and etc, but I just don't know what to do seeing as if he isn't clipped, I think he may make Emma jealous, maybe make her anxious while flying around and etc, and I feel maybe making them both 'equal' may be the way to go? Again - please give me some advice, or feedback or etc.

I would not recommend clipping before 6 months of age... better yet, not before at least 1-2 years of age, perhaps older for larger birds. This may be *especially* important for african greys. Please read Pamela Clark's articles, particularly Ethical, Moral and Spiritual Considerations of Companion Parrot Care, where she talks about how everything we know about african grey's phobic behaviors is completely false if you allow the birds to fledge properly. The birds grow up healthier, not only physically, but mentally as well, and end up better, well rounded birds as adults.


A lot of breeders and handraisers say birds are "properly fledged" when they begin flying as chicks, then clip their wings before being weaned. This is not true. A properly fledged chick would never be clipped until they are older, IMO.


Not too many people are aware of the pros and cons to *EACH* side of the clipping vs flighted debate. Please read this article to see each side, if you haven't already.

What do we do with those Wings?




You *DO NOT* need to clip a bird to make training and bonding easier. This is a complete myth. Sure, it makes chasing the bird down easier and shoving our wills on to them, but that doesn't mean that the bird is comfortable. Imagine being grabbed by a tiger, then forced to sit near them as they make sounds at you. A tiger that could kill you at any moment. Any time you try to escape, they simply snatch you again and force you to remain. If you can imagine, it's a very stressful situation.



As an experiment, I had 5 adult, flighted budgies. None of them were tame and friendly. My goal wasn't really to tame them, just to see how comfortable I could get them with me. I started out by feeding them every day by hand first thing in the morning. After the food was empty from my hands, I would replenish the food dishes in their cage.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUx81WHTUwk"]1 Bird in hand Leads to Many - YouTube[/ame]



A month later working with them in this way, I had them flying out of their cage to come and eat from my hands.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlSm4uFZzVU"]More Budgies!!!! - YouTube[/ame]



My experiment was complete, or so I thought! Next thing I knew, I had a previously hand raised and tame cockatiel (a rehomed bird) that had been ignored following me around the room when it came to feeding time. She even landed on me twice, a behavior she never displayed before. She had previously never shown any interest in me before, so this baffled me. Well, it took two weeks, but it finally clicked! She wanted me to feed her!


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q88bN30qOjo"]Sunshine in the Morning - YouTube[/ame]



I took in another rehomed cockatiel that had at least 3 homes prior to mine and the idiots that had her before me were even trying to breed her - until her mate supposedly died by a mouse. Well, she followed Sunshine's lead.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9w9w8nMRmw"]Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



And, given time, her comfort and confidence grew as she learned to accept me. Faye got to the point that she was demanding being fed by hand, despite the fact that there was already food out!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH9ZWxhCSAE"]Not So Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



Which has lead to working with Sunshine's father, a very skittish cockatiel that wanted nothing to do with humans. He's much more comfortable with humans now as you can see in the following video. He is the second cockatiel with a somewhat bald head.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjKmHswgiHs"]Cockatiel Feeding - April 24th - YouTube[/ame]



I've also had to work with Jayde, a red throated conure that was hand raised and a pet at one point in time, but for some reason or another, became fearful of humans while still desperately seeking human interaction. An odd behavior. She went from clinging to her cage for comfort to now clinging to me for comfort. She did come to me clipped, but I allowed her flights to grow out, and I also "listened" to what she needed. I believe this allowed for her to feel more comfortable with me.



What I'm trying to get at, is that with the right type of training, clipping is *NOT* required for training or bonding purposes.

This was probably the most helpful, informative, and most interesting reply I have Ever read. Thank you so much for this information, I am off to read those articles now, but your videos and experiences there are invaluable. I am going to try and keep him fully flighted, at least for now, as I agree 100% that it will do nothing but help. I am going to post pics as soon as I can