When will Percy move on from merely tolerating me?

[MomtoPercy]

I have bent over backwards to win him over and I diligently do training with him daily, never raise my voice at him (only saying "NO" in a firm voice when he bites, which is every day...), make sure I'm the only one to feed him, give him toys, whatnot.
Despite it all, he still only tolerates me because he knows there will be a piece of pumpkinseed in it for him if he humors me
I am so discouraged. Ge goes bananas if he sees my mom, calling "Ouma, come!" to her (Ouma means Granny). He also adores my son and will go to him at any time he sticks his hand out. But poor me - he greets me with a cheerful "Helloooo!!" And when I go over to him, he lunges.
I know I'm sounding like a whiney brat but I'm bleeding (AGAIN!), feeling very unloved
Suggestions, please??

 

[SandyBee]

How long have you had him, I can't remember.
The one thing that bonded my amazon to me is I would eat dinner with him and give him some from my plate.

 

[MomtoPercy]

He's been with us 3 and a half months now. Took to my son instantly and to my mom within two weeks. She's retired so she does spend the most time with Percy.
I would love to share with him but he get right into one's plate and "forages" LOL! Also, sometimes, my dinner is not suitable for him. Perhaps I will adjust my meanls for a while so that he can share.

 

[Jewelz]

I would say maybe stop doing too much for him....as you said he knows there is a treat in it for him to tolerate you. We just got Felix & at night he prefers to be with my husband & with me during the day b/c hubby is at work. Felix accepted the hubby instanty but I had to work a bit harder so I turned affection into a treat as well. I knew Felix was smart enough to put two & two together & see if he is nice to me he gets food & I didn't want that to happen soooo...when I am reinforcing a behaviour I want repeated sometimes all he gets is an over-the-top outpouring of affection. At first Felix was not happy & would look for a treat .....he even ignored me a few times but over the last few weeks Feix has become much much closer to me. He snuggles on my neck when we walk around now. Now he is just as happy with a good scritch as he is with an almond now & he is much nicer to me now too.....

 

[MonicaMc]

He's biting you because you aren't paying attention as to why he's biting.


Have you ever considered using positive reinforcement/clicker training/applied behavior analysis with him?

 

[Jewelz]

He's biting you because you aren't paying attention as to why he's biting.


Have you ever considered using positive reinforcement/clicker training/applied behavior analysis with him?

I keep hearing about clicker training....what exactly is it & where does one acquire said 'clicker?'

 

[MikeyTN]

Here in the states you can buy clicker from just about any pet shop. You can watch clicker training on YouTube, any of them will work cause it all lead the same direction as you watch the basics about how to. Then you can go from there with clicker on your own.

 

[Jewelz]

Here in the states you can buy clicker from just about any pet shop. You can watch clicker training on YouTube, any of them will work cause it all lead the same direction as you watch the basics about how to. Then you can go from there with clicker on your own.

Hmmmm very interesting.... I have yet to come across clickers here (I am sure they are available) I will keep my eye out for one....is any one brand better???

 

[MikeyTN]

Not really...I usually just get the pet store ones. They're rather inexpensive. But a clicker isn't really needed to train a bird but it's just easier for some people to learn. I don't use clicker to train my birds....

 

[strudel]

I have bent over backwards to win him over

I'd stop trying to win him over and just "let him be". Still do what you are doing, but for no intended purpose. Interact with him just for the fun of it. Your anxiety and expectations might be the source of his reaction rather than the other way around.

 

[MomtoPercy]

I have bent over backwards to win him over

I'd stop trying to win him over and just "let him be". Still do what you are doing, but for no intended purpose. Interact with him just for the fun of it. Your anxiety and expectations might be the source of his reaction rather than the other way around.

Yes, I'm sure you are absolutely right, he is very good about picking up emotions. I will certainly try your suggestion.

I am buying a clicker this weekend, so we will see how it goes. I've always used only positive reinforcement with him - ignore the "wrong" things and praise/reward the right things.

I do try to watch for clues as to why he bites and I've read A LOT about body language. But I guess I am just not paying close enough attention. I've noticed that he bites most often when -
He's ontop of his cage and I go to touch him or move something in/on the cage (refresh water bowl for instance).
There are other people around (especially my mother whom he always wants to go to)
When he's supposed to return to his cage.

It sounds like I am just complaining but that's not really my intention. He's a very sweet, funny, playful bird and when we are alone, he is "good as gold". I guess, if I am truly honest with myself, I must admit that -
(a) I'm probably irritating him by trying too hard because I am so keen
(B) He's "figured me out" and knows just what to do to get his way
(C) Despite what I "think I do right" I am not paying close enough attention to his cues.

You guys have opened my eyes to some of the things I'm doing wrong - I will certainly work on them. :smile004:

I am determined to succeed, so expect lots more plaintiff posts! LOL!

Thanks all! :10:

 

[MonicaMc]

Positive reinforcement training isn't always about "ignored the undesired behavior", but also about learning how to avoid it by replacing it with desirable behaviors.

An example.... if a bird frequently screams at you when you walk away, then teach them to be independent and to play with foraging toys. Then, only give them the toys when you need to leave them be. Over time, they'll be happy to pay attention to the toys and ignore you as you walk away! You have thus prevented a screaming bird!

Another example... a biting bird. Rather than allowing the bird to bite and "ignoring" the bite, avoid getting bitten in the first place! Learn why he's biting, then avoid situations that will result in biting, but work with him in such a way that he wont bite.


If he's biting when he's on top of his cage then try not force him to get off of it. Instead, while he's on there, whenever you walk by, give him a valued reward. Let him eat it, then walk away. Next time you walk by the cage, give him another reward, etc. Keep this up until he looks forward to you going by his cage. Next step is to have him walk over to you for a treat. He doesn't have to get off his cage, he merely has to go to you to get his reward. Repeat. Then, you can try getting him to step off the cage by either putting your hand flat on top of the cage or flat against the top. Reward him with treats each time he comes closer and closer to your hand. If he touches your hand with his feet, reward him. If he places a foot on your hand, reward him. If he places both feet on your hand, give him lots of goodies! But, don't move your hand! Keep teaching him to get onto your hand for rewards. Once he's good about getting on your hand while at the cage, then you can try moving your hand.


If you need to get him back into his cage, then reserve a very special treat *ONLY* for cage time! Show him you are putting that treat inside the cage and see if he'll go in. If he does, then pay attention to him while he's in his cage. Pet him (if he'll allow it), talk to him, give him more treats, etc. Soon, he will learn that going back to his cage isn't a bad thing.

With people, it's socializing him and teaching him to go to other people and that it's a good thing to interact with others.

 

[MomtoPercy]

If he's biting when he's on top of his cage then try not force him to get off of it. Instead, while he's on there, whenever you walk by, give him a valued reward. Let him eat it, then walk away. Next time you walk by the cage, give him another reward, etc. Keep this up until he looks forward to you going by his cage. Next step is to have him walk over to you for a treat. He doesn't have to get off his cage, he merely has to go to you to get his reward. Repeat. Then, you can try getting him to step off the cage by either putting your hand flat on top of the cage or flat against the top. Reward him with treats each time he comes closer and closer to your hand. If he touches your hand with his feet, reward him. If he places a foot on your hand, reward him. If he places both feet on your hand, give him lots of goodies! But, don't move your hand! Keep teaching him to get onto your hand for rewards. Once he's good about getting on your hand while at the cage, then you can try moving your hand.
.

Now why didn't I make THAT connection? Excellent! I will implement it right away! I think I've been trying to go to point F without stopping by points A to E.

Do you guys have any advice around the issue of him being more aggressive with me when other family members are around?

I never knew one could love something or someone this much, especially if they could give a hoot! LOL!

Thanks all for the valuable suggestions!

 

[strudel]

Now why didn't I make THAT connection?

I suspect it's because we think like people and not like birds and that we focus on results and are impatient to have those results. One thing I've read in relation to training a behaviour is to break it down into tiny little steps (like Monica was suggesting) and work on each step in turn. I can't remember just now which link it was, but I'm pretty sure I got to it through this forum.

Do you guys have any advice around the issue of him being more aggressive with me when other family members are around?

What is your reaction when the others are there? If you don't know, next time tune in only to yourself, don't worry about Percy, just think, what am I doing? Are you relaxed when you are alone with him, and tense when the others show up? Do you suddenly think "oh no, our playtime's over, now he's going to go and suck up to THEM?" or something along those lines? Instead of worrying about him "favouring" others, try to accommodate them. "oh look, Percy, here's nanna come to play with you, aren't you lucky?" Try to relax and just let everything be as it will. (I know I come across as Yoda or somebody, but I know it from myself and how my animals react to me.)

 

[MomtoPercy]

What is your reaction when the others are there? If you don't know, next time tune in only to yourself, don't worry about Percy, just think, what am I doing? Are you relaxed when you are alone with him, and tense when the others show up? Do you suddenly think "oh no, our playtime's over, now he's going to go and suck up to THEM?" or something along those lines? Instead of worrying about him "favouring" others, try to accommodate them. "oh look, Percy, here's nanna come to play with you, aren't you lucky?" Try to relax and just let everything be as it will. (I know I come across as Yoda or somebody, but I know it from myself and how my animals react to me.)

I don't *think* I do that but I *do* feel quite deflated when he starts flapping to go to them, so I am sure you're onto something there :20:

I will back off and take it slower. We have made progress but clearly, I'm wanting to move faster than Percy is ready to. I will be happy that he "high 4's" me for now and take the rest slower.

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[MonicaMc]

Many people focus on the end result more than the steps that it takes to get there. People admit that parrots are smart, but not realize that certain training aspects are not conducive to learning. Some techniques only teach the parrot what *NOT* to do and fail to even work on teaching a parrot what *TO DO*.

Biting is a clear example of this. It can teach parrots that no matter how they feel in a matter, they have no control over the end result if you simply ignore them when they bite. This leads to unpredictable biting because why should a parrot warn you that they are going to bite when you aren't even paying attention to them that they *WILL* bite? If you can learn to understand your parrot, why they are biting, the signs of "I'm going to bite you if you don't back off", take precautions to avoid getting bitten and then work *with* the bird rather than *against* them, then you have just bridged a communication barrier!

This article is kind of good at explaining the communication barrier.
Living With Parrots Cage Free: My Bird Knows When She Is Bad, Right?? !! (Hmmm)...



Positive reinforcement, applied behavior analysis or clicker training tries to help bridge this communication gap, but it does require thinking outside the box to what you'd normally think. What many people think is positive reinforcement really isn't (if you praise a bird for stepping up, does the bird really find your voice to be rewarding? If you give your bird a treat, does the bird even like the treat?), or it's a mixture. I do not train the same way as I did 10 years ago!


I'm no expert when it comes to training, but the more I read about it, the more I learn of how behaviors may be avoided or changed by changing our behavior - not theirs. Another example is lunging. If every time you walk by the bird's cage and it lunges at you, rather than ignoring the behavior and possibly having it escalate, you can instead try to change the way you approach the cage or at what speed you approach the cage, thus reducing the chance of the lunge.



In regards to Percy's behavior while other people are around... these links may be of some help (please bear in mind I *DO NOT* agree with the "alpha", "boss" or "dominance" theories)
Site Name - Articles - Behavioral - Sex And The Psittacine
https://companionparrotonline.com/sex_csaky.html
RP - Mating
Articles, Handouts & Quick Tips (a few things on there might be helpful to you!)


If Percy is actually viewing you as a mate, then the positive reinforcement/clicker training and redirecting his behaviors as well as socializing him with people may help him to lesson and possibly even stop his aggression. Then again, it might not be your behavior or his, but the other people. Are they too hyper? Is there something about them that is setting him off?


Just some things to think about!


I would love to hear of any updates you have with Percy!

 

[MomtoPercy]

I would love to hear of any updates you have with Percy!

Be careful what you wish for, I never stop yapping about him! LOL


Thanks so much for all the tips and insights!

 

[crimson]

MomtoPercy- I wanted to thank you for doing this thread.

It has opened my eyes as to how to train Willow with some current issues we are having.

Having trained dogs in my lifetime, I apply the same principals to my birds and it seems to have worked, with the exception of screaming.

Now that Monica has offered some excellent training tips(thank you Monica!!) I applied them with Willow this morning and she has been totally quiet, when I am not around.

You've had some excellent advice on here, and I know you will get some positive results and Percy will come around sooner rather than later.

Beth

 

[MomtoPercy]

Thanks Crimson, I've also found it very informative. And to think - it basically started as a big ole pity party I was having with myself! LOL!!

 

[MonicaMc]

I used to be of the mind set that if a parrot is screaming, you need to ignore it and reward them for desired noises and behavior. It never occurred to me to try and replace screaming with another behavior *before* it occurred, until I read a couple of articles. Then I felt like an idiot!

If it can work with biting, why not screaming? It does take work, and trying to think outside the box, and being diligent about keeping your bird busy, but it can work. Better to have a happy and involved bird than a bored bird.



And what greater way to learn than from others. Sometimes all it takes is for the right question to be asked!




I don't recommend free flight (I do recommend exercise!) but here's another article that talks about keeping birds busy so they don't scream.

Use your words: Conditioning Sam to a new environment | Learning Parrots