GreenCheek44
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Sometimes my green cheek will grab onto my shirt and flap his wings really fast for no reason. Does anyone know what this behavior means?
What does it mean when Your bird flaps their wings in place?
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GreenCheek44
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hes 14 weeks old! Sadly the breeder did clip him before I was able to give a preference. However, they have begun growing back and he can fly downards. I will not be reclipping him in the future.
He will be obsessed with trying to fly, so make things as safe as you can. Or take him into a carpeted bedroom to let him practice
https://www.windycityparrot.com/blog/2010/04/13/flight-important-parrots/#ixzz62HloSvKV
https://www.windycityparrot.com/blog/2010/04/13/flight-important-parrots/#ixzz62HloSvKV
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Here is good article on parrot behavior
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/bird-behavior/
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/bird-behavior/
Big debate here.
I think clipping is safer for the bird, especially since most birds aren’t kept in households where flying is safe.
I think clipping is safer for the bird, especially since most birds aren’t kept in households where flying is safe.
Ira, start a new thread, for this hot topic , let's not have this debate in this thread, the poster isn't trying to hsve thst discussion.
Learning to fly is a big developmental milestoneilestone and baby birds only have this preprogrammed drive to fledged snd overcome fear of falling at this age. Its very hard to get an adult bird to fly who wasn't fledged. I know, poor Penny took a year and now almost 2 years to fly, and still is pitiful
Learning to fly is a big developmental milestoneilestone and baby birds only have this preprogrammed drive to fledged snd overcome fear of falling at this age. Its very hard to get an adult bird to fly who wasn't fledged. I know, poor Penny took a year and now almost 2 years to fly, and still is pitiful
Why would I start a new thread?
When it was posted here how “horrible” it is to have a bird clipped?
Shouldn’t the person who posted how horrible it is to have a bird clipped also have started a new thread?
And isn’t this thread all about FLYING!?
fiddlejen
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- Parrots
- Sunny the Sun Conure (sept '18, gotcha 3/'19). Mr Jefferson Budgie & Mrs Calliope Budgie (albino) (nov'18 & jan'19). Summer 2021 Baby Budgies: Riker (Green); Patchouli, Keye, & Tiny (blue greywings).
When my budgies were clipped and could not fly they would hold onto their perches and flap like mad. It always looked like play-flying. Now, a year later, they same things that would cause them to FLLAAPPP, now cause them to go flying around the room...
My sun-conure, Sunny, came originally with a bad clip (Very Non-Symmetrical), which led to falls and, as feathers grew in, crashes & bleeding feathers. Now year-and-half later she is finally symmetrical and has not-quite-all her flight feathers... and, she is flying.
She used to frequently stand up on my shoulder and FLAP her wings at me, in a very clearly Expressing-An-Opinion sort of way. But, now that she is flying, she does not do this anymore. Instead, she Jumps OFF my shoulder, and then flys around looking for another place to safely land.
So I have to agree, the wing-flapping is practice, to strengthen the wing muscles in preparation for flying.
(My Jefferson-Budgie, who believes EVERYONE should fly, regardless of their feather- or wing-status, wishes all the best for your birdie!)
My sun-conure, Sunny, came originally with a bad clip (Very Non-Symmetrical), which led to falls and, as feathers grew in, crashes & bleeding feathers. Now year-and-half later she is finally symmetrical and has not-quite-all her flight feathers... and, she is flying.
She used to frequently stand up on my shoulder and FLAP her wings at me, in a very clearly Expressing-An-Opinion sort of way. But, now that she is flying, she does not do this anymore. Instead, she Jumps OFF my shoulder, and then flys around looking for another place to safely land.
So I have to agree, the wing-flapping is practice, to strengthen the wing muscles in preparation for flying.
(My Jefferson-Budgie, who believes EVERYONE should fly, regardless of their feather- or wing-status, wishes all the best for your birdie!)
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GreenCheek44
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by all means feel free to discuss that here! It would be helpful for me to hear each argument
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GreenCheek44
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Unfortunately the clipping job from the breeder was botched as well. Would it be beneficial to get them re-clipped by the vet just so they regrow correctly and he has a better flying experience in the future?
Young birds will go through an adult molt do get the feathers back a little quicker. Otherwise it can take 2 years to replace all the flight feathers. And you will be past the window of a young bird fledgling
lol you are a brave one! They tend to get so heated.. and in the past negative
To me fledgling, is different, then later deciding to clip or not clip topic fir behavior or safety.
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A part of the article I linked earlier.
" We call this process ‘Thinking on the Wing’. Parrot University has spent 20 years researching what makes a parrot “a parrot”. Our 20-year flighted parrot experience includes over 800 flock oriented pet parrots, and over 4,000 flighted baby parrots from more than 50 species. Cumulatively this amounts to over 7,000 bird years of hands-on experience.
As a result, we have found the number one characteristic that defines a “parrot” is its ability to fly. Flight is fundamental to every component of a parrot’s mind and body.
Learning to fly well is the most complicated and important task a parrot can learn. Flighted parrots are healthier, more active, more coordinated, and have much better vision. Flying promotes higher intelligence, self-confidence, self-esteem and ultimately makes a more social long-term companion.
Read more: https://www.windycityparrot.com/blog/2010/04/13/flight-important-parrots/#ixzz6fQKDwlcz
Follow us: @windycityparrot on Twitter
" We call this process ‘Thinking on the Wing’. Parrot University has spent 20 years researching what makes a parrot “a parrot”. Our 20-year flighted parrot experience includes over 800 flock oriented pet parrots, and over 4,000 flighted baby parrots from more than 50 species. Cumulatively this amounts to over 7,000 bird years of hands-on experience.
As a result, we have found the number one characteristic that defines a “parrot” is its ability to fly. Flight is fundamental to every component of a parrot’s mind and body.
Learning to fly well is the most complicated and important task a parrot can learn. Flighted parrots are healthier, more active, more coordinated, and have much better vision. Flying promotes higher intelligence, self-confidence, self-esteem and ultimately makes a more social long-term companion.
Read more: https://www.windycityparrot.com/blog/2010/04/13/flight-important-parrots/#ixzz6fQKDwlcz
Follow us: @windycityparrot on Twitter
FLEDGING CHICKS:
For any bird that has never fledged before, flying can be very scary - as it is for their anxious owners. But this is a natural process and as they practice it will get easier. To prevent injury, please make sure that windows and mirrors are covered so they don't fly into them. One way to train them to understand mirrors and windows is to take your bird to them and tap their beaks against them, to give them an idea that there is something there. You can practice flying with them in wide open rooms. In the beginning, they will fly into things. You can minimize this though by taking the said precautions. After some time (sometimes up to six months), they will master the art of flying
For any bird that has never fledged before, flying can be very scary - as it is for their anxious owners. But this is a natural process and as they practice it will get easier. To prevent injury, please make sure that windows and mirrors are covered so they don't fly into them. One way to train them to understand mirrors and windows is to take your bird to them and tap their beaks against them, to give them an idea that there is something there. You can practice flying with them in wide open rooms. In the beginning, they will fly into things. You can minimize this though by taking the said precautions. After some time (sometimes up to six months), they will master the art of flying
G'day Bruce.
Thanks so much for accessing WPT for some advice and additional food for thought on what is, in my opinion, one of the most significant issues surrounding the keeping of parrots as companion animals. I am a major advocate of maintaining full flight capability of all parrots kept in captivity and I strongly feel that we need to make a fundamental shift away from 19th and 20th century paradigms of thinking about what is acceptable and not acceptable in regards to our expectations of companion parrots and develop a 21st century approach towards their care, training and management. Simply -- parrots are `built to behave' in a range of specific biologically functional ways. The foundation of that functional behaviour is the capability of flight. Indeed, it is when we start to attempt to modify the anatomy of our parrots or create expectations of them that are completely incompatible with the expression of their natural biological tendencies that we then experience `behaviour problems'. It shouldn't be a surprise to us that when we keep parrots in contexts that afford them opportunities to socialize, fly, vocalize, establish territories, forage, breed and behave in biologically functional ways that we experience very few difficulties with their care. In my nearly 20 years of keeping parrots, and over 10 years of consulting with owners, wing clipping is, from my own anecdotal experience, perhaps the number one precursor to many of the most significant behavioural health issues I encounter and subsequent reasons for their failure in pet homes.
I don't subscribe to the common thought that wing clipping is `a personal choice'. A personal choice for the bird or the owner? If we are genuine and authentic about promoting relationships with parrots as pets built on a foundation of respect, trust and appreciation for accommodating them to the best of our abilities then such decisions should be made in the primary interest of what is ultimately the best for the bird -- not simply to cater for the limitations of the owner's environmental circumstance. A 21st century approach to companion parrot care embraces their flight capability and challenges owners to develop both the appropriate training skills to manage that successfully and to create an appropriate environment to ensure that flight is catered for safely. Ultimately, it's our expectations of our parrots as pets and the environment that we provide for them that need to be modified, not their wings. The justifications and rationale presented for wing clipping really don't maintain validity today. Flying into windows, getting stuck in the toilet or the frying pan, escaping out the door are all examples of problems with the management of the flighted bird -- not the capability of flight itself.
I often use the analogy that if your pet dog ran out of the gate and bit the postman on the leg would you tie his legs up to prevent that from happening again or would you just make sure the gate is locked? Parrots, unfortunately, are just about the last of our companion animals that are subject to socially endorsed physical modification. We no longer tail dock or ear trim dogs (at least not here in Australia) and educated people would consider de-fanging of a captive venomous snake to be safely kept as a pet inhumane. These are practices that were once accepted but are no longer. It's a shame that some members of the veterinary community still seem to endorse wing-clipping and continue to promote dominance hierarchy based approaches to their handling and training, hence providing much of the social validity for their practice. What we really need to be advocating and striving for is improved education for a modern approach to the keeping of a parrot as a pet and being progressive about our approaches to parrot care.
I wrote a three-part article for Australian Birdkeeper Magazine back in 2008 that provided a very thorough overview of the keeping of flighted parrots. You can access this material via backorder of the Aug/Sep 2008, Oct/Nov 2008 & Dec/Jan 2009 issues of Australian Birdkeeper Magazine at http://www.birdkeeper.com.au. The second and third articles provide insights into the training and management of flighted companion parrots -- definitely well worth reading. Much of the following rationale for maintaining flight in companion parrots is excerpted from the first article in the series...
Let's Define the Boundaries
Any discussion of `flight' and `companion parrots' really needs prefacing with a clear distinction between the concepts of a `flighted parrot' and a `free-flighted parrot'. The focus of this article is strictly on the philosophy, training and management of `flighted' parrots, birds allowed full flight capabilities but kept indoors or within a suitable flight enclosure. It is critical for parrot owners to realise that successful and ethical keepers of flighted companion parrots know their limitations, their bird's limitations, and have a conscious awareness of controlling as many of the potential variables that come into play with the keeping of flighted birds. This is only achieved through the implementation of proper training and the provision of suitable and safe housing. When we choose to keep a flighted parrot we must also accept an essential set of responsibilities and obligations. These are…
Ensuring the safety and welfare of our birds at all times through careful arrangement of their flight environment and;
Protecting the biodiversity and biosecurity of our surrounding natural environment by not allowing a flighted parrot outside of a flight enclosure or secure indoor flight space
Adhering to the above will ensure that risks associated with flight are minimised or completely negated.
Why have a flighted pet parrot?
In my experiences as a keeper of flighted companion parrots for many years, working professionally with free-flighted birds at Currumbin Wildlife Sanctuary, and through consulting with pet parrot owners on behaviour management, I have been able to identify and validate the following reasons why maintaining flight is so important for our parrots…
Increase in functional behaviours: Parrots that have retained their flight capabilities can be observed functionally engaging with their environment at higher levels than parrots deprived of flight. We often perceive this enhanced level of engagement as an increase in `confidence' and I would certainly agree with that. Functional behaviours, such as foraging and exploratory behaviour provide the foundation for improved behavioural outcomes in companion parrots. Flight facilitates a significant enhancement in a parrot's control over its environment through providing additional scope for decision-making and choice. When empowered with these opportunities, parrots can be seen to cope better and adapt more successfully to the limitations of the captive environment.
Reduction in development of stereotypical behaviours: As an increase in exploration and engagement with their environment is observed, often there is a corresponding decrease in the development of stereotypical behaviour. Whilst flight is not the magic cure for removal of behaviours such as feather picking and other significant behavioural health issues, it is often a critical component of a management plan to avoid their development or reduce their occurrence once established.
Reduction in level of dependency: The next step along a continuum of behavioural development that is supported through flight is a reduction in the level of dependency on the human carer. Parrots deprived of flight often become almost totally reliant upon the human carer for movement around their environment. We can acknowledge that flight is important to a parrot in supporting an enhanced level of physical engagement with its environment. It is reasonable then to suggest that with that comes a degree of independence that may potentially reduce behavioural problems associated with an over-reliance on human carers for social and environmental stimulation.
Enhancement of relationship with owner through improved training and reinforcement schedules: Keeping a parrot that can fly challenges the companion parrot owner to develop their own skills in the training and management of a pet that is empowered with independence and options for greater influence over its environment. In my experience this sets up wonderful learning and relationship development experiences for both the companion parrot and the owner. The relationship that an owner of a flighted pet parrot has with their bird is one that demands a foundation of trust and positive reinforcement history. It can be wonderfully rewarding and enriching to take that next step in supporting a reduction in over-dependence and an increase in your role as a teacher and positively reinforcing presence in your parrots environment.
Therapeutic benefits for behavioural recovery and rehabilitation: I first started working with other companion parrot owners on supporting the behavioural and enrichment needs of their birds back in 1999. Reflecting on the depth of that first-hand experience I can suggest that flight has been critical in the behavioural recovery of many birds I have worked with, particularly those that have developed feather-picking behaviours. Often there has been a need to establish outdoor flight enclosures to further enhance the environmental scope and opportunity for functional behaviour. Outdoor flight space offers immense benefits in reducing or completely avoiding behavioural health issues. I would certainly encourage parrot owners to consider constructing a safe and secure outdoor flight enclosure for their pet parrot. I have worked with a small number of dedicated clients on the design of such enclosures and the shift in experience scope that their parrots now have access has been brilliant to be a part of.
Thanks so much for accessing WPT for some advice and additional food for thought on what is, in my opinion, one of the most significant issues surrounding the keeping of parrots as companion animals. I am a major advocate of maintaining full flight capability of all parrots kept in captivity and I strongly feel that we need to make a fundamental shift away from 19th and 20th century paradigms of thinking about what is acceptable and not acceptable in regards to our expectations of companion parrots and develop a 21st century approach towards their care, training and management. Simply -- parrots are `built to behave' in a range of specific biologically functional ways. The foundation of that functional behaviour is the capability of flight. Indeed, it is when we start to attempt to modify the anatomy of our parrots or create expectations of them that are completely incompatible with the expression of their natural biological tendencies that we then experience `behaviour problems'. It shouldn't be a surprise to us that when we keep parrots in contexts that afford them opportunities to socialize, fly, vocalize, establish territories, forage, breed and behave in biologically functional ways that we experience very few difficulties with their care. In my nearly 20 years of keeping parrots, and over 10 years of consulting with owners, wing clipping is, from my own anecdotal experience, perhaps the number one precursor to many of the most significant behavioural health issues I encounter and subsequent reasons for their failure in pet homes.
I don't subscribe to the common thought that wing clipping is `a personal choice'. A personal choice for the bird or the owner? If we are genuine and authentic about promoting relationships with parrots as pets built on a foundation of respect, trust and appreciation for accommodating them to the best of our abilities then such decisions should be made in the primary interest of what is ultimately the best for the bird -- not simply to cater for the limitations of the owner's environmental circumstance. A 21st century approach to companion parrot care embraces their flight capability and challenges owners to develop both the appropriate training skills to manage that successfully and to create an appropriate environment to ensure that flight is catered for safely. Ultimately, it's our expectations of our parrots as pets and the environment that we provide for them that need to be modified, not their wings. The justifications and rationale presented for wing clipping really don't maintain validity today. Flying into windows, getting stuck in the toilet or the frying pan, escaping out the door are all examples of problems with the management of the flighted bird -- not the capability of flight itself.
I often use the analogy that if your pet dog ran out of the gate and bit the postman on the leg would you tie his legs up to prevent that from happening again or would you just make sure the gate is locked? Parrots, unfortunately, are just about the last of our companion animals that are subject to socially endorsed physical modification. We no longer tail dock or ear trim dogs (at least not here in Australia) and educated people would consider de-fanging of a captive venomous snake to be safely kept as a pet inhumane. These are practices that were once accepted but are no longer. It's a shame that some members of the veterinary community still seem to endorse wing-clipping and continue to promote dominance hierarchy based approaches to their handling and training, hence providing much of the social validity for their practice. What we really need to be advocating and striving for is improved education for a modern approach to the keeping of a parrot as a pet and being progressive about our approaches to parrot care.
I wrote a three-part article for Australian Birdkeeper Magazine back in 2008 that provided a very thorough overview of the keeping of flighted parrots. You can access this material via backorder of the Aug/Sep 2008, Oct/Nov 2008 & Dec/Jan 2009 issues of Australian Birdkeeper Magazine at http://www.birdkeeper.com.au. The second and third articles provide insights into the training and management of flighted companion parrots -- definitely well worth reading. Much of the following rationale for maintaining flight in companion parrots is excerpted from the first article in the series...
Let's Define the Boundaries
Any discussion of `flight' and `companion parrots' really needs prefacing with a clear distinction between the concepts of a `flighted parrot' and a `free-flighted parrot'. The focus of this article is strictly on the philosophy, training and management of `flighted' parrots, birds allowed full flight capabilities but kept indoors or within a suitable flight enclosure. It is critical for parrot owners to realise that successful and ethical keepers of flighted companion parrots know their limitations, their bird's limitations, and have a conscious awareness of controlling as many of the potential variables that come into play with the keeping of flighted birds. This is only achieved through the implementation of proper training and the provision of suitable and safe housing. When we choose to keep a flighted parrot we must also accept an essential set of responsibilities and obligations. These are…
Ensuring the safety and welfare of our birds at all times through careful arrangement of their flight environment and;
Protecting the biodiversity and biosecurity of our surrounding natural environment by not allowing a flighted parrot outside of a flight enclosure or secure indoor flight space
Adhering to the above will ensure that risks associated with flight are minimised or completely negated.
Why have a flighted pet parrot?
In my experiences as a keeper of flighted companion parrots for many years, working professionally with free-flighted birds at Currumbin Wildlife Sanctuary, and through consulting with pet parrot owners on behaviour management, I have been able to identify and validate the following reasons why maintaining flight is so important for our parrots…
Increase in functional behaviours: Parrots that have retained their flight capabilities can be observed functionally engaging with their environment at higher levels than parrots deprived of flight. We often perceive this enhanced level of engagement as an increase in `confidence' and I would certainly agree with that. Functional behaviours, such as foraging and exploratory behaviour provide the foundation for improved behavioural outcomes in companion parrots. Flight facilitates a significant enhancement in a parrot's control over its environment through providing additional scope for decision-making and choice. When empowered with these opportunities, parrots can be seen to cope better and adapt more successfully to the limitations of the captive environment.
Reduction in development of stereotypical behaviours: As an increase in exploration and engagement with their environment is observed, often there is a corresponding decrease in the development of stereotypical behaviour. Whilst flight is not the magic cure for removal of behaviours such as feather picking and other significant behavioural health issues, it is often a critical component of a management plan to avoid their development or reduce their occurrence once established.
Reduction in level of dependency: The next step along a continuum of behavioural development that is supported through flight is a reduction in the level of dependency on the human carer. Parrots deprived of flight often become almost totally reliant upon the human carer for movement around their environment. We can acknowledge that flight is important to a parrot in supporting an enhanced level of physical engagement with its environment. It is reasonable then to suggest that with that comes a degree of independence that may potentially reduce behavioural problems associated with an over-reliance on human carers for social and environmental stimulation.
Enhancement of relationship with owner through improved training and reinforcement schedules: Keeping a parrot that can fly challenges the companion parrot owner to develop their own skills in the training and management of a pet that is empowered with independence and options for greater influence over its environment. In my experience this sets up wonderful learning and relationship development experiences for both the companion parrot and the owner. The relationship that an owner of a flighted pet parrot has with their bird is one that demands a foundation of trust and positive reinforcement history. It can be wonderfully rewarding and enriching to take that next step in supporting a reduction in over-dependence and an increase in your role as a teacher and positively reinforcing presence in your parrots environment.
Therapeutic benefits for behavioural recovery and rehabilitation: I first started working with other companion parrot owners on supporting the behavioural and enrichment needs of their birds back in 1999. Reflecting on the depth of that first-hand experience I can suggest that flight has been critical in the behavioural recovery of many birds I have worked with, particularly those that have developed feather-picking behaviours. Often there has been a need to establish outdoor flight enclosures to further enhance the environmental scope and opportunity for functional behaviour. Outdoor flight space offers immense benefits in reducing or completely avoiding behavioural health issues. I would certainly encourage parrot owners to consider constructing a safe and secure outdoor flight enclosure for their pet parrot. I have worked with a small number of dedicated clients on the design of such enclosures and the shift in experience scope that their parrots now have access has been brilliant to be a part of.
More on behavior.
" We know that where an animal’s behavioural needs are frustrated, then the animal is vulnerable to behavioural problems. Engebretson (2006) writes: “The freedom to express normal behaviour and the freedom from distress appear to be inextricably linked in captive parrots and other birds kept as pets.” While we do not have many detailed studies of the behavioural ecology of many species of wild parrots (but see Diamond and Bond, 1999 and Rowley 1990) we do know that they are highly social animals which typically spend most of the day-time engaged in foraging for a range of foods, flying many miles each day, and engaging in regular sessions of mutual preening (Birchall 1990). "
https://www.beautyofbirds.com/behavi...inparrots.html
Parrots don't make for easy pets in captivaty. Let your parrot baby fledge and learn to fly!
"Fledging and Flight
One of the most critical periods in a parrot’s life is fledging, or leaving the nest and learning to fly, find food, form social bonds, and avoid predators by following their parents. Early wing clipping can interrupt this physical and psychological process and may leave birds prone to health and behavioral problems. Even as an adult, no bird is meant to caged and kept from flying. Every system in a bird’s body has evolved for efficient flying and they suffer without this crucial mental and physical exercise. Confinement in a cage can lead to ill health, neurotic behavior, excessive screaming, feather plucking, self-mutilation, obesity, and other destructive habits."
http://www.avianwelfare.org/issues/articles/truenature.htm
" We know that where an animal’s behavioural needs are frustrated, then the animal is vulnerable to behavioural problems. Engebretson (2006) writes: “The freedom to express normal behaviour and the freedom from distress appear to be inextricably linked in captive parrots and other birds kept as pets.” While we do not have many detailed studies of the behavioural ecology of many species of wild parrots (but see Diamond and Bond, 1999 and Rowley 1990) we do know that they are highly social animals which typically spend most of the day-time engaged in foraging for a range of foods, flying many miles each day, and engaging in regular sessions of mutual preening (Birchall 1990). "
https://www.beautyofbirds.com/behavi...inparrots.html
Parrots don't make for easy pets in captivaty. Let your parrot baby fledge and learn to fly!
"Fledging and Flight
One of the most critical periods in a parrot’s life is fledging, or leaving the nest and learning to fly, find food, form social bonds, and avoid predators by following their parents. Early wing clipping can interrupt this physical and psychological process and may leave birds prone to health and behavioral problems. Even as an adult, no bird is meant to caged and kept from flying. Every system in a bird’s body has evolved for efficient flying and they suffer without this crucial mental and physical exercise. Confinement in a cage can lead to ill health, neurotic behavior, excessive screaming, feather plucking, self-mutilation, obesity, and other destructive habits."
http://www.avianwelfare.org/issues/articles/truenature.htm
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Littleredbeak
Well-known member
- May 27, 2020
- 621
- 870
An excellent article by a renowned expert Pamal Clark. Well with taking the time to read, and covers many great topics. Including the outdated belief that clipping equals safety.
https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/tag/parrots-and-flight/
https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/tag/parrots-and-flight/
Fledgling changes everything article
https://parrotvolancy.com/wing-clipping-early-development/
https://parrotvolancy.com/wing-clipping-early-development/
FrancisMom
Member
Not wanting to get into the "clipping" debate here, but I will address the original topic of wing flapping. My 27-yr-old U2 has done that a few times. It seems to be when he's just really excited. I've also seen many of the 'toos do that on the podcasts at The Chloe Sanctuary. They seem to just be really excited too. Don Scott encourages that behavior, which I would agree with, as it's probably very good exercise without the danger of actually flying.
