Water pipes in the home - tale of disaster!

[Scott]

I live in a tract home that was generally well constructed 12 years ago EXCEPT for the water pipes! Long story short, the thinnest copper pipes to code were used, and our water district delivers very hard water, profusely chlorinated and fluoridated. The development consists of about 75 properties of which more than half have endured multiple pinhole leaks, sometimes the dreaded "slab leaks." Apparently the water chemistry causes weak spots to develop with the inevitable blowout. The drill is to have the drywall cut, a patch to the pipe soldered, and follow-up with drywall repair/painting. Hope and wait! FYI, insurance companies have attempted to subrogate (sue for damages of negligence) against the builder and plumbing subcontractor, but they conveniently went bk shortly after the 10-year homeowners policy expired. The argument was while the code was likely followed, most of the pipes were manufactured with flaws.

Thus far my home is about average; two leaks within the past 2 years. Others hav endured far worse. First time was above the kitchen, the current one in the living room. The latter leak was far more damaging, and most of the drywall, insulation, and ceiling removed. The room is sealed with a plastic barrier with fans and 2 humidifiers running for 4 days. Lots of fun!

So what to do? I will not patch this up and wait for the next disaster. Nor will my insurance company continue to be pleasant as time progresses. The current guesstimate for lifespan of these pipes is 10-15 years. Unconscionable!

There are 3 viable solutions: Re-pipe with a heavier gage copper, re-pipe with a plastic tubing such as PEX, or line the existing pipes with a plasticizer to prevent future blowouts. The latter is a fairly new technology that first blasts the interior with a cleaning/smoothing abrasive, then applies a "food grade" polymer to protect the interior. I've done some research and judge the efficacy in order posted, but the re-piping involves massive removal of drywall and subsequent restoration.

Any suggestions based on experience? FWIW, I live in a very temperate climate not subject to extremes. Ambient temps generally range from 35F to 90F.

Thanks!!!

 

[ToMang07]

I'm just going to say my house was built ~1800 and had all new copper piping installed in 1990, and then retro-fitted with copper piping for forced hot water in 99. *knocks on wood* we haven't had any leaks to date. I'd say re-pipe in good quality copper piping. JMO. (We also have very hard water, untreated from the well.) Temps average here from -30*F to 100+*F.

 

[RavensGryf]

Scott, I'm really sorry to hear you're going through this! Figures, everything seems to be made "cheaper" these days and not surprising builder went bankrupt shortly after policy ex'd :33:. Best of luck getting this all taken care of as smoothly and quickly as possible! Our house was built decades ago, and things like this really scare me!

 

[gracebowen]

Would a water softener help?

 

[Terry57]

Scott, that's terrible It's awful that the subcontractors could get away with what they did, and I bet that after they declared BK, they opened under another business name.
I have no advice since I have't gone through anything like that, but wanted to say how sorry I am that all of y'all are going through this.

 

[Scott]

Thanks everyone for the advice and sentiments. It just sucks to have an early failure of one of the key components of a house. Roofs and the electrical system are generally good for 25+ years, and of course the basic structure far longer. Periodic replacements of water heaters, faucets/valves and of course fixtures such as microwaves, stoves, dishwashers, washer/dryer, etc are expected costs of ownership. The "plug and play" items are momentary irritants until replaced, but water piping is a major deal.

As far as water softeners are concerned, Grace, probably so. My pipes are too far gone to trust softer water as a cure, but perhaps for the future. If it does make a difference, it would have been nice to have been advised by the builder to use for longevity. But of course that might have opened a can of worms for them..... putting owners on notice of a potentially defective system.

 

[Allee]

Scott, I'm sorry you're going through this. I'd suggest high quality copper pipe. We had to replace all our pipes a year and a half ago, but they were very old and had every right to need replacing. The plumbers were here long enough to bond with the parrots. I know it's frustrating, but you'll be so relieved when it's all done. Penniless, but relieved.

 

[Hawk]

Good luck with that Scott.
I have been There many moons ago with copper plumbing inside concrete flooring. Have no Idea why they went that route. House I have now is 151 years old, brick 2 story, and plumbing was all replaced, but darn hard water is the main culprit. Went through 3 hot water heaters in 7 years. Have a softner, but still have to run it high and then taste like salt....you can't win.

Insurance companies are not nice when it comes to water problems, usually in the foot deep insurance contract, in small print, it will say something like the plumbing has to be up to code or they won't consider fixing and bla bla bla...been there done that.

 

[Dopey]

Hi Scott - we have to treat our water and had to replace all of the copper pipe with PVC. Yep, I went through the water damage to the walls and everything. Fortunately my husband is rather handy and was able to replace some of the pipe himself. He also taught me how to repair a leak if he was out of town. He travels a lot. We hired someone else to do the drywall and painting. After dry walling the basement of our house he was done.

The way the pipe was placed we didn't have to do major re-drywalling. Unless the water leaked and ran. It isn't fun. FWIW. Our builder did the same thing...declared bankruptcy and then went to Virginia to build. Every house he built has the same problem.

And you can't predict where the next pin hole is.

 

[Surfincr]

the first question is how long do you plan to live there? if you dont foresee yourself moving i'd replace all the pipes with the heavy copper as its been tried and true and when done right lasted for many years. the pex (pvc) tubing to my knowledge hasnt been out that long and still seems to be evolving i've been avoiding using it since they keep coming out with new studies showing how xyz product is hazardous, plus if you dont do it just right it will leak. with your last option i'd be leery of it since it is so new out.

if you're planning to move out within the next few years i'd likely just go with the cheapest option.

another thing to note when you do replace the copper piping see about keeping the old and bringing it to a scrap yard yourself you could recoup a good chunk of your money.

 

[Scott]

Decided to have the existing pipes lined with epoxy. Had 2 quotes for copper or PEX and had a tour of the likely holes/trenches that would have to be patched following a new pipe installation. Not encouraging, particularly with a 2-story house.

It was a 2 3/4 day process that was just completed, and so far all water pressure and flow is unchanged. The house was a labyrinth of hoses from manifolds leading to every hot/cold water outlet. New shutoff valves and tubing to all fixtures were installed.

One factor, of course is the safety of the birds. The re-lining system cleans and roughens the pipe interior walls for better bonding and is done with a fine sand under pressure. It is a totally closed system with no hint of escape of anything noxious or otherwise.

Not really keen to drink from epoxy lines, however - nor is the tap water palatable. A whole-house water treatment system will simply flow purified water through the epoxy lined pipes! I ordered a hot/cold dispenser that draws from 5-gallon drums. Rather than have a service deliver bi-weekly, I discovered a nearby "water store" that has an advanced reverse-osmosis system onsite. They sell BPA-free containers and have a half dozen spigots as well as a cleaning station. Best of all, water is 30 cents/gallon - far cheaper than delivery. All I have to do is take the jugs and refill myself. They also dispense alkaline water, touted as helping prevent cancer, though that notion is rather controversial!!

if anyone is contemplating pipe lining with epoxy, send me a PM. They are nationally known and have franchises globally. I was very happy with the professionalism of the 3 workers - every path they took was lined with thick paper and cleaned afterwards.

 

[Allee]

Sounds like you found the best possible solution, Scott. I'm glad the monumental task is finished. I hope that's the last of your plumbing problems.

 

[Hawk]

Decided to have the existing pipes lined with epoxy. Had 2 quotes for copper or PEX and had a tour of the likely holes/trenches that would have to be patched following a new pipe installation. Not encouraging, particularly with a 2-story house.

It was a 2 3/4 day process that was just completed, and so far all water pressure and flow is unchanged. The house was a labyrinth of hoses from manifolds leading to every hot/cold water outlet. New shutoff valves and tubing to all fixtures were installed.

One factor, of course is the safety of the birds. The re-lining system cleans and roughens the pipe interior walls for better bonding and is done with a fine sand under pressure. It is a totally closed system with no hint of escape of anything noxious or otherwise.

Not really keen to drink from epoxy lines, however - nor is the tap water palatable. A whole-house water treatment system will simply flow purified water through the epoxy lined pipes! I ordered a hot/cold dispenser that draws from 5-gallon drums. Rather than have a service deliver bi-weekly, I discovered a nearby "water store" that has an advanced reverse-osmosis system onsite. They sell BPA-free containers and have a half dozen spigots as well as a cleaning station. Best of all, water is 30 cents/gallon - far cheaper than delivery. All I have to do is take the jugs and refill myself. They also dispense alkaline water, touted as helping prevent cancer, though that notion is rather controversial!!

if anyone is contemplating pipe lining with epoxy, send me a PM. They are nationally known and have franchises globally. I was very happy with the professionalism of the 3 workers - every path they took was lined with thick paper and cleaned afterwards.

Glad you have it worked out.
About a year ago Had to seriously do something with my water.
Gotten one of those 5 filter reverse osmosis systems. and a softner.
Now the water is crystal clear and taste good. Got to have good water for the family and of course my birds.

I'm sure everyone has seen the national head lines of the water problem in Flint Michigan, about an hour South east of me. That water is so bad that there is
suits against the government and criminal charges being sought against our governor for covering it up.
Now The congress and even president is paying a visit. Pretty bad situation down there with the water.

 

[Terry57]

Scott, I am so glad that is done! What a shame about the taste of your water. Our city water is terrible, and I love our reverse osmosis machine. So the trip is still on?!?!

 

[Scott]

Scott, I am so glad that is done! What a shame about the taste of your water. Our city water is terrible, and I love our reverse osmosis machine. So the trip is still on?!?!

Thanks, me too! You bet the trip is on, the only far-fetched hitch would be a flight cancellation or weather catastrophe! Arrival and departure times as per the PM! Can't wait!!

 

[Terry57]

I'm so excited!!! Will pray for good weather for your trip We're looking so forward to this!

 

[Scott]

I'm so excited!!! Will pray for good weather for your trip We're looking so forward to this!

Looks great so far... no significant weather other than the cold! Gonna warm up through the week and forecast low/high is -11C/12F to -3C/26F.

Me too!!