Want to learn how to breed macaws

[AshM21]

Hi all,
I'm after some advice from experienced bird breeders.
I have a long-term goal (10-15yrs from now) of breeding macaws (my dream bird is a hyacinth macaw), but have never bred any birds before. I was wondering if anyone had any advice about how to "level-up" to breeding macaws by starting with smaller/less complicated types of birds. The path I've been thinking would be to start with conures and move up in size as I feel more confident (conures -> galahs -> eclectus/amazons -> macaws). I would appreciate any advice on how to progress to more difficult birds.
Thank you

 

[noodles123]

Hey welcome-- my advice below isn't the most enthusiastic, but it's not personal. Breeding is really tricky and comes with a lot of ethical considerations as well.
I can understand why you are intrigued by the thought of breeding and raising babies (I used to think I wanted to do it as well) but there are a million reasons not to . I am glad you reached out. You are smart to ask questions.

What is your current background? Smaller birds are not really "less complicated"---they are all complicated to keep as pets if kept properly...and breeding is way more complicated than that.

You would need to apprentice with someone who knows exactly what they are doing and work with them long-term before considering this (there is a TON that can go wrong, from mate-human or mate-mate aggression, to egg binding/prolapse in the female, to infection in the babies, to parent-mutilated babies, to fungal issues, to scissor beak, to splay leg, to extreme malnutrition).
It is super super detail oriented and temperatures, humidity, sterilization etc are crucial (like, laboratory sterile--- like you touch the fridge handle with clean hands but then touch the formula and you have contaminated it because of the fridge handle not being sterile)...Temperatures must be spot on every single time...you could be looking at round-the-clock feedings if you have to remove the chicks for protection and that gets even more tricky. It is also extremely expensive, and you will likely need equipment like brooders etc, as well as multiple cages, special syringes, thermometers, scales etc etc.
We are talking a ton of money to do this right, on top of long term, hands-on instruction with a professional...and some breeders are really terrible and inhumane, so you would need to find one that didn't run a bird mill with sickly birds crammed into tiny cages.

What you would do with the birds once you breed them? The babies cannot stay together long-term or the siblings may mate at sexual maturity and you will have an inbred, genetically dangerous combination (or , they could also fight)..So then you are looking at separate cages for all of the babies once they start to get older. Not to mention the parent birds and all of the risks for disease (including asymptomatic transmission) when combining multiple birds..The money you'd spend on testing alone for each of the 10 adult birds would be huge, and you'd still have to quarantine every new bird (excluding babies bred in-house) in a separate air space for 45 days, during which time you would need to get blood work etc at a CAV. Babies would also need veterinary care.

On top of all of this, there is a major surplus of homeless birds in the world---so making more without a solid plan is not fair to them. So many get bounced around or abandoned or neglected, so just consider what you would be feeding into. They are all super smart regardless of size...and if you are breeding them, then you have to consider the world of captive parrots.

If you consider the parents (breeders) alone for your plan, you would be looking at a house full of birds (the cage dimensions below are for 1 bird, and would need to be larger for 2 in most cases if you want to breed humanely)...

2 conures + big cage (can live over 30 years) --a minimum cage size for 1 conure is 36 inches long, 24 inches wide, and 24 inches high (size for 2 is going to be different)
2 galahs + massive cage (can live over 80 years)- bare minimum for a single galah- at least 40”(W) x 30”(D) x 65”(H)
2 eckies + massive cage (can live over 30 yrs)--also require specialized diet and adult birds cannot eat pellets like most parrots- bare min cage size for 1 bird 36” x 24” x 48”.
2 amazons+ massive cage (can easily live over 60)- bare minimum for 1 bird cage-size: 34” wide, 24” deep, and 36”
2 macaws + a cage so large that it would likely have to be special ordered.... (50-80+ years depending on the type)--Macaws shouldn't be kept in the same home w/ powder-down birds like cockatoos (including galahs) or any other powered-down birds like african greys or cockatiels due to a fairly common hypersensitivity that they have to the dust on powder down birds feathers. The macaw cage would need to be huge... like 6 feet by 8ft or more.


Plus, you would need other large cages for the babies and in case 2 birds don't get along/for quarantine etc...

For the plan you mentioned above, the birds and and cages alone would easily run over $20,000, not to mention the cost of veterinary care, food, toys and all the other cages for babies etc..the formula and all of the breeding stuff that would have to be added to that. The cages need to be good ones.

Note: Wooden cages and chicken wires etc are not safe at all for parrots, so making your own is not a way to save money. Pretty much any metal other than stainless or aluminum is going to be toxic to birds...zinc, nickle, copper, various amalgams, including certain types of steel (depending on the contents)--even if they just mouth it without actually trying to eat it...and wood from a hardware store is often treated with harmful chemicals, plus it can be easily chewed and cannot be cleaned properly.

2 birds of the opposite sex, may not get along, so what happens if you get 2 and they hate each other (as opposed to breeding)? Then they will need their own cages...They can't spend all of their time locked up either, so how would you have enough time to interact with them all and safely let them out? Birds can fight to the death in some instances (same species, or different). If they are hormonal, their aggression will be higher, so a rogue bird landing on top of the wrong cage could lose a toe...Plus, in pairs, it is harder to form a human bond with them, so how will you handle them etc? If you plan not to handle them, does that mean they stay locked up 24/7?

On top of this, you can't easily separate a bonded pair (they get very attached), so what happens when you are trying to breed another bird (say, the macaws) and your conure and galahs also lay eggs...How will you prevent continuous breeding and how will you meet the demands of hand-feeding/socializing etc? Even caring for a single baby is like a full-time job, let alone all of the adults and other potential babies.
How will you have the space and time for 10 birds? Let alone 10 breeding pairs...? On top of that, if each pair had 2 chicks (and some will have more), you are looking at a minimum of 20 birds...and even more cages...but honestly, you could end up with 30 if each pair had one clutch....and some will have more than one if they stay together. I know you don't plan to do this all at the same time, but if you keep the birds, in the long-run you could have like 25 adults and 3-5 babies (assuming each only had one set--which is unrealistic to expect).

If your solution is to sell the "breeders" (the parents, or even the babies) you have to consider that many people in the bird industry are going to treat birds like objects w/out regard to the parrot's well-being...it's about money for some people, not the birds. You can't just sell a bonded/breeding pair to anyone because they could end up like egg-laying machines in a dirty and dark bird mill....the average person doesn't want a breeding pair because they are often less social with humans, and there is the risk of future breeding. I am not saying no one has bonded pairs, but many people avoid them, so you could have 10 birds, plus all their babies....Then there is the issue of the babies---lots of people want birds but dk what they are doing, so do you sell your babies to the first person interested? What if you run out of room or money?

If you did sell the babies, how would you make sure you were doing it ethically/screen buyers?

You also need to consider the paperwork and laws on breeding in your area, because it's not legal without special clearance in lots of places

Here is a good link on the topic of beginning to breed: http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/54987-before-i-start-breed.html
Here is a link on unweaned babies: http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/74363-so-you-bought-unweaned-baby.html
Here's some more info (but again, you should not attempt any breeding at all without apprenticeship) https://hari.ca/hari/research-facil...cine-pediatrics-housing-feeding-baby-parrots/
This also goes into more detail on some of the stuff in the link above: https://theparrotuniversity.com/arthandfeeding2 <--I don't agree with everything on this site, but there is some information that is solid.

Finally, when you have birds, you cannot use any non-avian safe chemicals in the home. There can be no fumes of any kind, smoke, vaping, burning food, incense, scented oils, wax burners, air fresheners, aerosols, standard cleaners like bleach/windex etc..no candles...no ptfe/pfoa/pfcs/Teflon (these coat many items that heat up and can kill a bird via off-gassing on totally separate floors). While these are all extremely dangerous for adults, babies can succumb to the dangers even faster.

They have extremely sensitive respiratory systems, and since you would have so many, you would also need to get multiple, high-end air purifiers (hepa, non ionizing, non ozone producing, non sanitizing). Ozone and ionizers harm parrots, so if you get one with these functions, you have to be able to turn it off. You would want a very nice model and these tend to run around 600 to 1000 dollars each...Alenair, and Rabbitair are two solid brands for birds. Even non-powder down birds produce dander, and the amount of junk (dust, dander, poop particles, seed particles, skin cells etc) that would be in your air with so many birds would harm you and the birds without serious purifiers-- likely, more than 1.

 

[noodles123]

Have you ever owned any of these bird varieties before on your own?
Aside from all that I said above, a single parrot is a massive undertaking in terms of the attention and details that go with owning 1. The species mentioned are all so different. I hope you stick around because there is a lot of good information here from lots of nice people.

Sorry I wrote so much-- I totally respect your question and sorry about the long reply.

I get why you are interested, but I hope you will consider the details and complexity of making the choice to breed at all, let alone so many species.

 

[SailBoat]

Truly superb information provided above.
A few years ago, someone stopped by with a like goal and interest in Hyacinth Macaws. If I recalled correctly, the costs involved, including a "proven" pair priced out around $100,000 USD.

Fundamentally, as stated above, it's a lot of work and the best advice is to find a well respected 'Breeder' (note the capital 'B') and gift your time (like a couple of years) to learn the art. Then, you need to accept that there is little to no profit in this undertaking.

 

[LokisMomma]

I, too, have considered breeding. Mostly because I absolutely love macaws, would thoroughly enjoy the process, and I would welcome the babies as if they were my own children. However I only considered doing it once or twice, and not as a business or money making venture. I wanted to do it more for the experience than anything. I haven’t yet, and I still might one day, but I’m not in any hurry. Anyway..
All the advice given above is excellent and all things to consider. As others have said, the best thing you can do is volunteer your time with a breeder to see and learn all you can. Maybe also give some time to a sanctuary or rescue so that you can gain experience being around macaws.
One thing I would say is that if you truly are going to do it and you know that it is macaws you want, then just focus on macaws. Don’t start with other types of birds, as they won’t be any less complicated, no less time consuming, and you won’t be working with the birds that you have the desire to work with. Thinking that a smaller birds are easier or “starter” birds is a myth. Go for the bird that you have the passion and love for, if that is macaws then so be it. Just my opinion of course, but I’ve had several birds from cockatiels to conures to macaws and I wouldn’t say any of them are more or less “difficult” than the other.

 

[AshM21]

Hi, thanks so much for your input, I really appreciate it.
For some additional background info, I do have experience with pet birds (budgies, cockatiel and indian ringneck). I am still only in the beginning research phase for breeding birds so some of the more complicated bird health related questions you asked I am still unable to answer, but some of the other concerns you addressed I have considered.

I live on acreage so space for multiple large cages wouldn't be an issue. My intention is not to start a bird breeding business, but more for a hobby since I enjoy birds, though I would be attempting to sell any babies. I am unsure how I would screen any potential bird owners (maybe photo of cage/aviary setup, or proof of experience with birds?), but I would be receptive to any advice but I do intend on doing further research.

In terms of the bird/bird/human relationship issues you addressed, I was thinking of purchasing unrelated baby pairs and keeping them together so they bond. I also intend on handling them regularly to maintain a good relationship with them.

I know that there is still a lot to learn, but hopefully I get there one day

 

[Noahs_Birds]

It does take lots of work breeding birds, but if you put in the time and effort the rewards are fantastic!

Get a good sized aviary that is entirely steel construction, and the steel and mesh should be Galvanized dipped to prevent corrosion. An aviary at least 6 metres long is the most appropriate that is set on a concrete slab for ease of cleaning and vermin proofing.

When buying, look for key ideas such as 'Young Bonded pair) with full DNA certificates and documents. To tell if they are a true bonded pair they should be sitting on the perch together closely with little or no bickering occurring. Try and avoid 'Breeding Pairs' unless there is legitimate proof of breeding from the pair like photos and sales documents.

Once breeding commences, a heap of agression will result. A good mate of mine breeds Green-winged macaws and they were originally fairly tame.......but since beginning breeding they have become extremely aggressive. ALL BIRDS DURING BREEDING BECOME SOMEWHAT AGRESSIVE.

If you are intending on breeding, do not buy handreared young. Breeding results are never as good as parent reared young.

Make sure you buy quality birds. When buying macaws look for the largest and brightest birds as possible. Quality is better than quantity!

You mentioned working your way up to Hyacinth Macaws.... its a massive leap! I suggest you work with at least 2 other macaw species before moving up to Hyacinths, such as Blue & Gold and Scarlets are excellent macaws to start working with......You need to have a good head on your shoulders through experience to be able to work with difficult birds such as Hyacinths, as they are extremely picky with their husbandry guidelines and require lots of work.

Diet is a whole different topic......all I can say is I hope you have a good load of money to start with!