Very worried and emotionally drained.

[Tangie]

Hey guys....

So I took Kiko to the vet last Friday night, and have been giving him his antibiotics since Saturday morning. I took him to the vet because he had small tiny stools that signified he wasn't eating much. I debated for about a day before seeing one bubble in nearly every stool. I took him in, and they said he had good muscle mass, no stools were clinging to his rear feathers, and he looked alert and healthy. They explained to keep an eye on him, while giving some antibiotics, and within a week, if it was not better, to take him in.

So here I am, and I found a clump of stools that are black, on a perch underneath his other perch. I do not know if they are old, or if they started since giving him the antibiotics, but I am at a loss. (They are really dry, but that doesn't really matter). Every time I have heard him go, I know it has landed on the bottom of the cage. All of those seen fine. I found a recent one on the perch, away from the others, and it looks fine, with no bubbles, however the tiniest bit on the end looks a little dark.

I am at a loss for words, and I plan on bringing him in again. I know black stools signify old blood, which signifies something extremely irritating in the upper intestinal tract, which is exactly why he was given antibiotics in the first place. I guess I just need some support and some ideas for what to do. He seems more active than he was before, so I take it as a good sign. I just have NO idea if those stools were old, or not.


I have also noticed that since before bringing him into the vet, he will no longer really eat on the cage floor, except for millet. I have no idea why this could be the case, and it really makes me confused. His appetite is really great, and he will sit there for a long time and eat when I hold the bowl up. I just find it so very strange.

 

[Tangie]

I also wanted to ask, has medication/antibiotics ever caused black feces in your birds? Could this possibly be it, if these were new since Friday?(I clean the perches once every week, and only this one really needs to be cleaned). Could anything else account for this? His diet has shifted towards a more heavily "Mysafebirdstore" blend, which has a variety of different stuff.

EDIT: He is taking Ronidazole and, and will be starting Panacur tomorrow.

 

[LeaKP]

I'm so sad to hear this! I wonder if it isn't a side effect of the meds. Please call your vet who is treating for advice.

 

[Flboy]

I am useless, but I am here!

 

[EllenD]

First off, I'm sorry your tiel is sick, I have a female that I only got about 2 months ago, and I'm attached to her like ice had her for years. She is truly the sweetest bird I've ever had the pleasure of having. And I know what you're going through with a sick bird, I freak out completely at even a little sneeze.

Is your vet an avian vet, or a general vet? I ask only because I was wondering if the vet did a fecal smear on the original droppings, and if so, what was their diagnosis that called for Ronidazole...

It's always a great sign when your bird is eating well and has a lot of energy. It's quite possible that the Ronidazole caused the black stool, however I'm going to guess that is from the new diet. Anything new that you feed your bird can cause fecal changes and usually does. I would put white paper or paper towels over the bottom of his cage floor so you know the stools that are collected on it are new and so you can see them. If they appear normal or at least not black, then you know that the black dropping you found was just from the food change or possibly the antibiotics.

As far as why he won't eat from the bottom of the cage anymore, that is usually related to a couple of things. One, the bottom of the cage has an odor or is dirty and he doesn't like being down there, or two, something down there is scaring him. Has the bottom of the cage been cleaned recently? Even if it has, I would try completely cleaning the cage from top to bottom and putting in fresh of whatever substrate you use. If there are any new toys, bowls, etc. or anything else in his cage has changed, remove the new stuff and get his cage back to the way it was before he stopped going down there to eat. Little, insignificant changes to us can be the end of the world for them.

Regardless, you are doing the correct thing by taking him to the vet. Never hesitate to take your bird, or any pet, to the vet if you are worried something is wrong. Better to be safe than sorry, especially with birds that are so good at hiding illness and pain. I would however take your bird to an avian specialist vet, if the vet you're seeing is just a general vet. There is a huge difference between the two, and I don't like putting a bird or any pet or person on antibiotics without a firm diagnosis of what is being treated. If your vet just looked at your bird's stools without doing fecal testing and put him on the antibiotic, then another antibiotic to start tomorrow, as you've said, he's just guessing as to what is wrong with your bird. In the meantime your bird may be getting more and more ill because he's not on the correct treatment, and the antibiotics he is taking may be harming him or at the very least building his resistance up to them, so that when he does need them they won't work. Please find a proper avian vet.

Good luck, and try not to worry, he's eating, drinking, and playing, and you're getting him treatment.

 

[Tangie]

Thanks for the posts! He has always had the Myysafebirdstore blend, however his diet has consisted more of that, and millet, than the generic seeds I find at Walmart. I also added more broccoli to his diet as well.

Nothing has changed for over a month,and everything is cleaned, so I am pretty stumped.

They did do a fecal smear, and, said "it was a bacterial infection". Unfortunately, the other closest avian vets were hours away. He was doing well, and I thought it really could have been nothing, and I knew he would not have been able to suffer through the long ride, only being in a vehicle one time or so. (Hours also did not correlate with my agenda those few days, and since he was fine, Ii decided to wait).

I will never be bringing him back again, because they didn't do that simple test. I honestly feel really bad, because I didn't notice that they had not done so until the next day.

After observing the stools, I think that they are about a week old or so, and correlated with the first introduction of the antibiotics, and whatever he must have eaten in his diet. He has since gone to the bathroom three times, and they are normal.

The reason why, I guess, he was prescribed this was probably because it 'worked for me last time', and he looked to be in 'really good condition'. I understand that they did do one, but without giving me the bacteria name, I really have my doubts.

I REALLY hope my poor baby will not have to drive four hours one way to visit another avian vet, and that this is working. 8C

I guess I will just keep the sharpest of eyes on him, and observe him even more.

 

[Scott]

I completely understand your concerns and wish the very best for Kiko. Just want to verify the current doctor is not an avian vet? Asking only because you mentioned "....the other closest avian vets were hours away." Based on the meds it seems possibly Giardia and worms were diagnosed. My concern is that while a good many meds used for mammals are safe for birds, an avian vet is best qualified to prescribe.

 

[Tangie]

Yes he is an avian vet, however, there may be others that are better. He may not be a great avian vet, if that makes sense. I am confident that they are knowledgeable in what are safe for birds, I just am not sure if they can properly diagnose what is wrong with him, if it makes sense.

 

[SailBoat]

When watching a Sick Bird, always change the paper often, like multiple times during the day. It is the only way you can keep track of the size, state and color of the stool.

In the Amazon Forums as part of the first Thread highlighted in light blue: I Love Amazons ... and at or very near the last page or two. There is a discription of the different segments of a Parrots Stool. This may help you understand what changes too watch for and be concerned about. I hope it will help you!

 

[Scott]

Yes he is an avian vet, however, there may be others that are better. He may not be a great avian vet, if that makes sense. I am confident that they are knowledgeable in what are safe for birds, I just am not sure if they can properly diagnose what is wrong with him, if it makes sense.

Thanks, I totally understand!! If Kiko is managing relatively well, but hits a plateau with no significant improvement, might want to seek a second opinion. Hopefully the symptoms will clear up with the current meds!! You are doing the right thing by watching closely!!

 

[plumsmum2005]

Hi sorry Kiko is not well at the moment. Only two things to add and that is it could be useful to put some kitchen, absorbent paper on the cage bottom, easy to scoop up and take with you to vets if needed and easier for you to check. The other thing is how well is Kiko moving about his cage, has his mobility in any way changed and could this account for not eating from the bottom of the cage anymore? Birds that are restricted in this way will often still take food from you.

 

[Rival_of_the_Rickeybird]

I am useless, but I am here!

I'll join you, Fl. I'm useless but I'm here.

 

[EllenD]

I agree with you that if they simply said he has "a bacterial infection" then they probably did not actually do a culture and diagnosis. And this is not good at all, because while Ronidazole is safe for birds AS LONG AS THE DOSE IS ACCURATE AND HE IS NOT AT ALL BEING OVERDOSED, it is a very specific antibiotic for treating only a few PROTOZOAN infections, like giardia. It is not a broad spectrum antibiotic, and therefore he is not going to get better but rather rapidly worse if he's actually got a bacterial infection and not a protozoan infection. I would be very surprised if your bird was diagnosed with one of the infections that Ronidazole treats and they didn't tell you.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE CAR RIDE, TAKE YOUR BIRD TO A DIFFERENT AVIAN VET IMMEDIATELY! I'd be very concerned because by the time he is making it obvious that he is very sick it will most likely be too late to help him. And I'd hate to see you lose your birdie because an avian vet was too lackadaisical to actually run proper tests. In fact I did some specific research this morning to verify what I was thinking, and I am correct that the two antibiotics that you've mentioned he is or will be taking are not broad spectrum and do not treat most common BACTERIAL infections in birds. There are probably 6 or 7 antibiotics I would give him before the two you've been given.

Please take the time to take him the longer trip to a proper avian vet immediately! Please. Take the meds you were given along with a fresh stool sample that morning and do it quick.

"Dance Like Nobody's Watching"

 

[GaleriaGila]

I'm just so sorry!
Kiko is on my list for prayers and good vibes and love...
I'm glad you came to us with your situation, glad and grateful.

 

[Tangie]

Thank you all for the kind words and support!

I called two avian vets, one of which was the one I just took him to. He, in fact, DID do the culture, and it was just mistaken wording between him, the vet tech, and myself. He observed the stools, replied that the loose stools could have been due to a stress that I hadn't noticed. He said the stools looked good, but he did the culture anyway and it did show Giardia. However, he said the levels were super low, so he took samples from a few more, and one or two did not have it. So I caught it very early on, and it must have been because I was already on high alert after the water bottle accident.

The one thing that leaves me a little annoyed is that there was no sign of worms, but he was given that just in case. He said to do only a drop once in the morning, and then in the evening, but be careful because it really is only used for dogs and horses.

He also mentioned that the black stools could have been due to a diet change, or at the very start of the illness. He also mentioned that it could have dried black, and just been dark brown.

Kiko has always acted normal through this all, and the only thing I noticed differently was the looser stools, and one bubble in nearly every stool. Now his stools are fully formed, normal color, and no bubbles. So, stool wise, everything has been normal for at least a day. The only change I have noticed is that he does not like eating his seeds on the floor any more, unless millet is down there.

At the beginning of the week, if everything still seems great, I will bring him in to a different vet, and just check up on everything.

 

[EllenD]

What did they give him to specifically treat worms? That's odd that they would give him a worm medication for dogs and horses (poison, that's generally what worm medication is) when he didn't actually test positive for worms.

I'm glad he's doing well and that the giardia was caught early, and that it was just a misunderstanding and that they did actually give you the correct medication for giardia.

"Dance Like Nobody's Watching"

 

[LeaKP]

Oh this must be so frustrating for you. Pls keep us posted, hoping and praying for the best news!