URGENT HELP NEEDED! PLucking and toe tapping

[SilleIN]

I am sorry for asking a questions probably asked a hundred times before, but I don't really feel I(the bird) have the time to read old threads to find the needed help.

I have just received a plucking and toe tapping Eckie.

He is only 5 years old and has already had 7 homes. I know he has been on coloured pellets since January (a person, who claimes to have more than 50 years of experience with parrots told the owner, that that was completely safe, however she should change to Zupreem. Don't get me started with her ). I have no clue, what he got before.

He has a pretty large bald area on his lower belly almost between his legs and on the front of his neck.

He was very stressed, when he arrived yesterday (which is to be expected). His feathers were in total disarray and in desperate need of moisture. I wetted his feathers last night by showering my hands and petting him gently all over, so most of the feathers got wet.

Today he used a LOT of time tending to his feathers and my blanket was grey with all the small pieces of sheaths. The place he has been at for the last 1½month had a juvenile female ekkie, who beat him up, so he is contantly looking for threats. I think he might not have had time to maintain his feathers (beyond plucking them) and might be in such a desperate need of a bath, that it might not have been possible to get to all of them.

Today I also cut his toenails, as they were very long.

I am trying not to do too much at once, however still getting things done.

He does not know how to eat any veggies or fruits (have tried grapes, apple, banana, grapefruit and bell peppers). He does however know how to eat coloured pellets, pizza and french fries

My question is now: Is there anything I can give him to flush his system faster? Needless to say he is not getting anymore pellets (I only have coloured) and tomorrow I am going to an eckie breeder to get special eckie food.

 

[SilleIN]

Forgot to say, I haven't seen him wing flip and have only seen him toe tap once

 

[chris-md]

Hmmm, you don't have time to read old threads but have time to write long posts?

Kidding...mostly.

Look, you're a great parront, you've got this. Truth is, much of it should be taken care of with proper care, like you give your current birds. Fresh fruit and veg, and loving interaction and enrichment will address most of the potential underlying causes of both problems. You can't speed up metabolism. Birds have quick metabolisms anyways. Flushing his system is a nonissue.

The plucking many never go away, just be prepared for that. The important thing is that the undying issue be addressed. As long as that's taken care are of, in the words of my avian vet, "there's nothing wrong with a happy, naked bird!"

 

[chris-md]

Also of course a visit tot he vet is mandatory to rule out health causes

 

[SilleIN]

Hmmm, you don't have time to read old threads but have time to write long posts?

Kidding...mostly.

Look, you're a great parront, you've got this. Truth is, much of it should be taken care of with proper care, like you give your current birds. Fresh fruit and veg, and loving interaction and enrichment will address most of the potential underlying causes of both problems. You can't speed up metabolism. Birds have quick metabolisms anyways. Flushing his system is a nonissue.

The plucking many never go away, just be prepared for that. The important thing is that the undying issue be addressed. As long as that's taken care are of, in the words of my avian vet, "there's nothing wrong with a happy, naked bird!"

Not that I post this and then sit back and expect others to give me the answer I am worried that I might spend 3 days of reading before finding the right answer and figured this could potentially give an answer faster

I am not really worried about the plucking per say. One of my BG's was plucking more than Sofus is now and he is fully feathered today. I am expecting once his surroundings is calm and his diet improved, the plucking will subside.

I am however a little worried, that he doesn't know what fruit and veggies are, but comes flying at the mere sight of a pizza box... Well also about the time to come. I remember very vividly the struggles to get (Des)Tino to eat veggies and he could eat fruit.

I am now feeding him a seed mix with tons of fruit, but only the seeds are being eaten. He is not thin, should I just give him fruit and veg and let him "starve" to get him to try?

I have Nectar for the lori. Could I do anyting with that, to get him converted faster?

 

[Scott]

First, thanks for rescuing an Ekkie in dire need of rehabilitation. Though I've had two Vos over the years, toe-tapping was never in their repertoire. Agree with Chris that a general "flushing" is not necessary given their high metabolism and this birds apparently reasonable weight.

They can be extremely stubborn, thus diet modification, while critical, may be slow. I would recommend feeding healthier vegetables and fruits the bulk of the day without seed/pellets present. Once removed, give a small portion of the preferred food to ensure adequate intake. To be clear, I am not suggesting a starvation regimen, but rather a partition of good vs bad.

There are several great toe-tapping threads in the Eclectus forum. A few links follow. The first was created by moderator Anansi (Stephen) and is quite the scholarly approach!

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/61889-okay-let-s-talk-abv-pdd-toe-tapping.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/67465-toe-tapping.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/66054-uglow-started-toe-tapping-i-think.html

 

[SilleIN]

First, thanks for rescuing an Ekkie in dire need of rehabilitation. Though I've had two Vos over the years, toe-tapping was never in their repertoire. Agree with Chris that a general "flushing" is not necessary given their high metabolism and this birds apparently reasonable weight.

They can be extremely stubborn, thus diet modification, while critical, may be slow. I would recommend feeding healthier vegetables and fruits the bulk of the day without seed/pellets present. Once removed, give a small portion of the preferred food to ensure adequate intake. To be clear, I am not suggesting a starvation regimen, but rather a partition of good vs bad.

There are several great toe-tapping threads in the Eclectus forum. A few links follow. The first was created by moderator Anansi (Stephen) and is quite the scholarly approach!

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/61889-okay-let-s-talk-abv-pdd-toe-tapping.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/67465-toe-tapping.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/66054-uglow-started-toe-tapping-i-think.html

Thank you. I am actually reading Stephens thread now, but am only on page 3.

I did actually say no, to take the bird in, to begin with, but I caved in, when the owner insisted I was the only person she could trust the bird to (eckies are quite rare in Denmark, so she had had several offers). I did tell her I had no eckie experience what-so-ever. I just hope my mind can learn fast enough for Sofus to become a healthy bird again.

I wasn't really that worried about the poor diet, as the previous owner said he didn't tap. I have been keeping an eye on him for any signs of things, that needs attention. He didn't tap all day yesterday and basically not today, however when I came back from teaching dog training, I took him out of his cage to give him some time before bed. I carried him around with me as I did my "before bed"-routine. When I was tending to duck and geese eggs in the incubator, I put Sofus down on the back of a metal chair. Suddenly I could hear "cling, clling, cling cling". When I looked at him he was tapping his nails on the metal chair.

He hasn't been wing flipping and that was the only time I have seen him toe tap, but he has also only been here for 1½ day.

And I will book a visit for the vet next week. I want him checked out, but am also afraid, I might do more harm than good, if I force too many things upon him at once. His beak is also in need of a trim and I don't mind trimming nails and the macaws beaks, but (to me) a small beak and a bird I basicaly don't know, I wouldnt risk doing anything wrong.

 

[itzjbean]

A wellness exam at a vet should be one of the first things you do when you acquire a new bird! It is stressful but necessary. They'll be able to tell you if there are any health issues, or problems from the get-go. Are you keeping him in quarantine, away from your flock?

 

[plumsmum2005]

Hi and just to add another link http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/28350-eclectus-diet-confused-3.html

and this one http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/62274-my-new-baby.html#post575323

It is better to think of veggies and fruits although we always say it the other way round.

Wishing you luck with him, what is his name? Remember to eat things in front of him, especially as he is familiar with junk food so has been given it from his previous owners at meal time.

 

[Kentuckienne]

You are the patron saint of lost parrots! Sounds like the eclectic eclectus people are on board...there is a product called Aloe Detox that people make big claims for, couldn't hurt. If you can't get it there I can maybe mail you some.

 

[greytness]

Go light on protein containing foods such as nuts, eggs and sunflower seeds. Protein seems to exacerbate toe tapping.

 

[plumsmum2005]

It is important when a bird has these symptoms to have an immediate vet check with comprehensive blood work including tests for metal toxicity. It is important to rule out metal toxicity which can be fatal without diagnosis. Only blood tests can reveal metal toxicity, as well as calcium deficiency, another culprit. Self diagnosis and administering potions 'willy nilly' is not to be recommended, we pay Avian Vets a good amount of money for their expertise and training and advice and IMO it is best used.

 

[SailBoat]

You are the patron saint of lost parrots! Sounds like the eclectic eclectus people are on board...there is a product called Aloe Detox that people make big claims for, couldn't hurt. If you can't get it there I can maybe mail you some.

Aloe Detox:

There has been a huge movement to a wide and unrestrictive use of Aloe Vera. The praises for Aloe Vera is near overwhelming. This driven heavily by Avian Owners' report of miracle level results. However, there is a very major difference between those Owners with extensive experience combined with their working with the Certified Avian Vets (CAV) and the inexperienced Owner looking for a short-cut, quick-fix and 'cheap' solution.

Aloe Vera 'products' can be purchased from your CAV to Home Health Food Stores to General Product Big Box Stores. What is included in the Ingredients in addition to Aloe Vera is important to know and understand there effect and interactions before providing.

With real interest to the Members of Parrot Forums, one of the most often quoted Aloe Detox uses is a Thread /Post provided by our Birdman666. The clarity of his writing provided very specific reasons and highlighted his knowledge and search criteria for a solution to the serious illness of his Parrot. There is no question that his specific use saved the life of his Parrot. A Parrot with a specific need for Detox. That event provided and widened the scope of uses for his CAV and Aloe Vera. In addition, that event has also been back reported into the CAV community, which has resulted in the use of some Aloe Vera products, which are application specific.

That event, in my mind, supports a Thank-You Mark! (Birdman666)

That all said, Aloe Vera is not a wide, general, all use product. Aloe Vera, in and of itself has numerous safe uses! Problems with its use quickly multiple with the very wide array of Ingredients that can and are added to the Aloe Vera. Those Ingredients can provide no known advantage - to causing other issues, i.e.: solve a problem, create another. Example: Aloe Vera provided with a very limited mix of other very specific Ingredients can be uses to provide comforting relief for Parrots that Pluck. The same Aloe Vera with an extensive addition of Ingredients can result in irritation of the skin.

The use of Aloe Vera has rapidly evolved in Avian care. Buying 'any' Aloe Vera product without understanding the effects of the additional Ingredients is not recommended! Today, using Aloe Vera, selected based on its specific use is growing. Please involve your CAV to assure that you're selection will help and not hider!

 

[SilleIN]

A wellness exam at a vet should be one of the first things you do when you acquire a new bird! It is stressful but necessary. They'll be able to tell you if there are any health issues, or problems from the get-go. Are you keeping him in quarantine, away from your flock?

It is important when a bird has these symptoms to have an immediate vet check with comprehensive blood work including tests for metal toxicity. It is important to rule out metal toxicity which can be fatal without diagnosis. Only blood tests can reveal metal toxicity, as well as calcium deficiency, another culprit. Self diagnosis and administering potions 'willy nilly' is not to be recommended, we pay Avian Vets a good amount of money for their expertise and training and advice and IMO it is best used.

I would always get a health exam for any bird in my care. I do however usually give the bird 1-2 weeks before I take them to the vet, to give them an idea, that I am not just an evil evil person

 

[SilleIN]

Good news! Sofus hasn't toe tapped since I saw it the first time. He could be toe tapping, when I'm not around. However they tend to toe tap, when they are relaxing often on one leg. He is right now he is sitting on one leg and no tapping

I have also had relative success with his diet. I have figured out, he will eat anything I seem to enjoy (just like all other parrots ) and he now will eat 2 types of melon, a bit of mango, grapes, carrots, peas and corn. He'll obviously not touch his specialised ekkie food, as I haven't eaten any, but it looks like I have tricked him into getting some of it, as I mixed it into some pasta mixed with the few greens he will eat.

I can't really tell yet if the plucking is changing, but bath time is not as bad anymore (Any plucking parrot will have a shower/bath every other day). I haven't been able to get though to my vet, so hopefully I will get an appointment tomorrow.

 

[Anansi]

Just seeing this thread. Any updates?

 

[Uglow]

hope all's well. Did you get a chance to see your vet? what little advice I have is Uglow started tapping when his calcium level was under recommended levels. I had to give him a powder supplement and then make sure his diet had a bit more calcium than before. his tapping stopped within a couple days and hasn't returned.
So with calcium you need phosphorus and vitamin d(3). kale, lentils and some sunlight should do the trick. here's the thread with some info that might help. (if it's calcium that is)
http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/66054-uglow-started-toe-tapping-i-think.html

 

[SilleIN]

Sorry for forgetting to update. Sofus is a healthy 5 year old. The levels were within normal range. The only thing that worries me is that I didn't get any vitamin or mineral levels. It were protein, liver, sugar and kidney levels... We might not have the same tests as you guys, as you mention vitamins and minerals also.

The only thing I can say for sure is his tapping has stopped. He is also on a far healthier diet of mainly fresh foods.

He is molting at the moment and would normally give a vitamin supplement for molting season, but am worried to give and ekkie artificial vitamins, as I read somewhere, that that could cause tapping. What are your experiences?

 

[Anansi]

I wouldn't supplement. Only in a case like Uglow's where the vet recommended it due to a specific issue. I tend to increase my birds' calcium and protein intake a little when they are molting. Nothing extreme. Just a little to account for the increase in demands on the body.

I am so glad to hear that Sofus has stopped tapping! It can be so heart-wrenching when they are suffering through that.

 

[SilleIN]

I wouldn't supplement. Only in a case like Uglow's where the vet recommended it due to a specific issue. I tend to increase my birds' calcium and protein intake a little when they are molting. Nothing extreme. Just a little to account for the increase in demands on the body.

I am so glad to hear that Sofus has stopped tapping! It can be so heart-wrenching when they are suffering through that.

I usually use this in their water during molting: Versele-Laga Muta-Vit Liquid Moulting Supplement |Great deals

I am just not sure it is safe for ekkies?? Especially since he has just tapped not long ago.