Traumatized Amazon, need ideas

[Epoch]

Next week I am taking in an approximately 18 year old Amazon who has some pretty severe trust and behavioral issues. My friend who has him is a vet tech and took him in about year ago, he had been passed around after being dumped/rescued from a neglectful/abusive home.

She has 3 kids and lots of house pets (and she breeds Great Danes, so there are times it is like a herd of horses are in the house) so the activity level in the house is pretty high and he just hasn't come around since she took him in. We are hoping that my place will offer him some peace and since I have more time than she does (I breed racehorses and work from home) we can try to give this poor bird some quality of life.

He is very aggressive when you walk past his cage, he will gape his beak and charge the person walking by, growling. It just breaks my heart to see how he reacts when you put your hand into his cage, he acts like he is in sheer terror, as if someone chased him around the cage and physically harmed him. He will throw himself onto the cage floor and run blindly into the sides of the cage to escape any contact, to the point where you are certain he will hurt himself. If you try to handle him he will bite with all his might. My background is in law enforcement and he reminds me of an abused kid that acts out. He has plenty of toys in his cage but hardly bothers with them, if you leave the door open he may or may not come out on his own, after a long time. He has no joy.

I handled plenty of parrots and macaws years ago as a vet tech and my aunt always had an array of birds when I grew up, my grandmother had miniature noble macaws, so I am experienced with the ins and outs of birdkeeping and certain behavioral issues, but never something this severe. I am going to look for local resources and reach out to them for advice, as well as continue looking online for any kind of material that might give me better tools to help him. He is getting his beak and nails trimmed next week before I take him, I cringe to think about how he is going to react.

Any ideas, experiences, advice, very much appreciated,

Thank you

Vanessa

 

[clark_conure]

patience is the only thing... I know of, put the cage near where you hang out, talk to him a lot, treats, it's going to be weeks or probably months. But you can earn his trust.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Use the search function to find relevant posts. Sailboat’s I love Amazons thread, a sticky in the amazon forum, is a good place to start. Amazons are amazingly resilient, and though it might take time to earn his trust they will usually trust again. Set your expectations for “big time mprovememt in a year” instead of “better by next week” and you will be better calibrated for the effort..

 

[Notdumasilook]

This is so damn sad I have run across birds that had issues but nothing like that. Obvious this has been a horribly abused creature. As already said I can only say patience and lots of love and quiet stable surroundings can help here. There is a special place in Hell for people that abuse animals, and if Im around to see it Im tempted to help them get there. Thanks for having such a big heart and doing this challenging rescue. If I ever meet ya Im gonna give you a big ole hippie hug. I know there are dif schools of thought on this...but I wonder if there is some medication that would help him cope... at least at first. Might run it by the vet. Its a thought anyway.

 

[BeatriceC]

It took three years to win over Goofy, my husband's YNA. Amazons are intense, but it's worth the effort. You will probably not need that long, as Goofy and his favorite human are still together, and I was just the intruder, but that kind of gives you an idea about how stubborn they can be. Patience. Make sure you stay very patient, and don't be disheartened if it takes a year or two.

 

[wrench13]

Bless you for taking in this needy Amazon. Sailboats is our forum exert on Amazons, so read his sticky several times, aloud, to your new addition. Read the Body Language one too, both are 100% spot on, especially for one whose been so mistreated. He will come around, with time and love and attention.

 

[MonicaMc]

He is very aggressive when you walk past his cage, he will gape his beak and charge the person walking by, growling.
Can you try changing your approach past his cage? Maybe try walking slower? Announcing your presence prior to walking by? Maybe moving the cage to an area with less traffic?

It may even help to put up a "blind" in the cage that he could hide behind when he's not feeling comfortable.


It just breaks my heart to see how he reacts when you put your hand into his cage, he acts like he is in sheer terror, as if someone chased him around the cage and physically harmed him.
I would highly recommend avoiding putting hands in his cage if at all possible. If the cage doesn't have a way you can access the food dishes from outside of the cage, switch him to a cage that has that feature.


He has plenty of toys in his cage but hardly bothers with them
He may simply not know how to interact with them. Giving him foraging opportunities may help to increase his interest.


If you leave the door open he may or may not come out on his own, after a long time. He has no joy.
Time, patience, learning to read his body language, learning to read when to back off, and most importantly, trying to avoid putting him in a situation where he feels stressed.




There is Anna of Macaw & Cockatoo Rescue in New Mexico. She has experience taking care of birds from all sorts of situations.

Animal trainers and behaviorists such as Barbara Heidenreich, Susan Friedman, Lara Joseph, Hillary Hankey and others like them are a wealth of information! Some have articles, blogs and videos all worth viewing!


A good one to start with would be this video.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/rescuedparrot

 

[SailBoat]

A Wonderful Human has come into the Live of an Amazon!

I cannot define a more Wonderful Place to Begin that Life than Right Here on Parrot Forums!!

Your Vet Tech and Law Enforcement background are going to get you a long way along the path of helping this Amazon become comfortable with a more comfortable World! There is a ton of trash and miss-information on the Internet, happy that you found Parrot Forums!

First, I would like to thank my fellow and very good friends above for the kind words! Know that each of them are also vast wells of knowledge worth keeping nearby!

I am going to suggest that you have well-defined what 'your' Amazon has experienced and suffering from! Your insights will help you greatly in the coming years! Yes, it will take years to recover! As the abused children(s) you spoken of, each Parrot is worth saving and Love and Time are the strongest tools we have! Can this Amazon recover, YES! I have both seen it and done it far too many times to count! If you are committed, you can open their inner doors and allow them to re-enter a Loving World. I assure you that any Parrot that is provided this opportunity will rain even more warm love upon you! And, with an Amazon, you will come to a point of understanding the meaning of being fully and opened to being: 'Owned By An Amazon!'

Although, your friend's heart was in the right place, her home was not! This group of Parrots (think Kids) need a 'comforting,' and 'reassuring' World around them to even begin to open a single eye to the possibilities that sit just in front of them! In this World, everything is at their speed! Regardless of how slow or how fast! Everything is at their speed!

Sit next to your Amazon with the door open and 'Read Out-Loud,' in a warm and comforting voice, the first Thread in the Amazon Forum! found at the top of the page in light blue: Understanding Amazon Body Language! Read that opening section of that Thread several times a day to your Amazon! FYI: Amazons Love to be Read Too!!! The goal is: Yes, for the Amazon to become comfortable with your voice and the comfort to be found in it! But, ever more, for you to become very clear in what your Amazon is 'Telling You!' Amazon's depend heavily on Body Language to communicate! Since you do not know Amazon speak and the Amazon has a very limited understand of Human speak and what he does know is not very good! The Author of that Thread is Birdman666. As you start into that Thread, once you complete the reading of his opening (read several times), slide-thru the Thread, looking for his addressing members questions. Read their question and more importantly his answers! Consider those additional readable moments to keep your mind from over-loading on only the first part!

The I Love Amazon - ... is a huge Thread that has some 33 or so segments! Please start with the first: I Love Amazons Segment! As above, read it out loud to your Amazon! As time allows, and /or as needs demand, read the additional segments. A couple of the Segments may just have you wanting a Warm Feathered Hug from your Amazon!

Any reading, regardless of how boring will be enjoyed by your Amazon! So feel free to read and read and read to you Amazon!

**** Very important Tool in working with Amazons (okay, any Parrot)! ****
- It is NEVER the fault of the Amazon!
- It is ALWAYS the fault of the Human!
- If you view all your interactions with your Amazon from this point of view, you will quickly see that this vantage points will allow you to quickly see what you are doing wrong and correct it!

- Know that deep inside your Amazon is a 'Sweetheart' that 'Truly' wants to be part of Your Home and You!
- As you are slowing opening the World to this Amazon, as soon as you feel comfortable involving other Humans, do so! Socializing Amazon (okay all Parrots) is very important! FYI: Amazons are a quick judge of Humans, if your Amazon pulls back, That is a Clear: No Not At This Time, With That Person!

Regarding your Vet visit:
- Let the Vet be the Bad person and you the welcoming warm arms of salvation!
- In addition to the Beak, (only let it be a very minor trim, please!!!) and the toe nails: Please have a 'Complete New Bird Examination' and a full blood screen, stool sample testing (gram stain), and strongly consider a DNA Sex Test! Parrot with this kind of History have a high likelihood of underlining ailments, injuries, etc... Knowing where you are starting from is extremely helpful for everyone (just like the Kids, right)!

There are a ton of things that those of us here on Parrot Forums will happily support you with, keep coming back for more!!!

I have spend a life time picking-up others; Yesterday's Trash, and have never found an Amazon that did not respond to the combination of Love and Time. I have starter from some fairly deep holes and the rewards have all been beyond Words!

- By the time you come to understand just how large a space they have created in your Heart, I will assure you that they have allowed you to create an equally as large of a home in theirs!!!

Yes, I Love Amazons! Cause Amazon's Rule!

FYI #1: Visit Sally Blanhard's Website! Her book on Amazons is great! As is her book: 'Companion Parrot Handbook' It will save you a ton of time searching elsewhere and support you come back to Parrot Forums!

FYI #2: Remember to call you Vet to assure that they are ready for the additional items included as part of this Post.

FYI #3: Please to not start with Behavioral Training, prior to developing a working Bond with your Amazon!

 

[Epoch]

You guys are wonderful, thank you! I'll keep you posted on our progress, I'll probably make some videos to give you an idea of what he's doing so you can give me tips on body language and correct me if I'm doing something wrong.

SailBoat, I appreciate your advice and I look forward to picking your brain should it come necessary.

 

[SailBoat]

Okay, I have gotten a few comments on the PM, (Back Channel) regarding 'WHY' I do not recommend starting Behavioral Training prior to developing a working Bond with Your Amazon and to that point, any Parrot! To save several PM's, and to address others that may also question this , see (FYI #3). Please see below:

Behavioral Training depends heavily on (well there is no kind way to put this) having the Parrot hungry! Yes, the 'practice' uses prettier words, but in a 'nut-shell' that is the reality of the starting point!

Rehomed Parrots rarely come with a complete write-up of their life, if you get anything! Starvation, regardless of why is far more common than most would believe. To start your Training with a 'practice' that requires a hungry Parrot is not a Good Place To Start a Relationship! In addition, it is not that unusual to have problems getting the Parrot to even begin to eat! So, just how does one justify starting from that point?

I know Barb, I have read her works and have seen her in person and spoken with her. We are by no means on first name bases and with the number of people she speaks with each year, I would guess that she does not remember me.

That all said, once a working Bond is in place and 'if' a block occurs that a 'Restart' does not work - I'm okay with Barb's approach! But, always remember that the Goal is to always be working on enhancing the Bond! Remembering that one of the basics is:
- Only good things happen when Humans are around!

Hope this answers the inquires!

 

[Birdman666]

Okay... where to begin?!

Yeah. Been there, done this, many times.

YOU ARE DESCRIBING TO A "t" A TYPICAL CAGE BOUND AMAZON...

The reason the bird behaves that way to hands is that IT DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. Not that it's been chased around a cage, it's that it's been stuck inside a cage for so long it doesn't know what to do...

The bird does not even know basic step up anymore.

Think of it this way. That cage is all he has left. It is his nest. When he lunges against the bars, he is trying to make you aware that you are encroacing on his nest. This is mine. It's all I have left.

If you are sticking your hand in the cage, and the bird is fleeing in fear?! THAT IS ACTUALLY A GOOD THING.... because in many cases, the offending digits would be removed by a cage bound bird. Since there was no blood draw, that means this bird is actually NOT aggressive... (Doesn't mean he won't bite. It means it's a last resort.) Hands intruding into the cage are a territorial intrusion.

When the bird comes home, I'd start by opening the cage door and letting the bird come out on it's own. Sit next to the bird. Talk to it. Do nothing threatening at all, for a day or two. Offer the bird treats from your hand.
Get the bird used to the door being open, and people not being a threat. Offer treats. You get it if you take it nicely. Cashews would be a good one.
DO THINGS TO PEAK THE BIRD'S INTEREST IN YOU, AND IGNORE THE BIRD, MAKE THE BIRD SEEK INTERACTION FROM YOU, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Then, give it what it wants. Attention...

Then do the basics: Step up. Go down. No bite. Touch training...

Give it about two months. New bird.

Yeah. I've done this a few times...

 

[Kiwibird]

First, thank you for offering a home to this bird who needs someone to work with him. Amazons are wonderful parrots and so long as you put in the time and effort, you'll be greatly rewarded. Second, listen to Sailboat and Birdman666!

In my experience, it took about a year and a half before our (once) aggressive amazon stepped up reliably without biting. I think it would have gone a lot quicker had we been given the advice you are being given when he was new to us. Building trust with your bird is more important than anything you can train them because without a sufficient level of trust to work with, you won't be able to train them at all! The best way in the world to build trust is to set aside time every day to sit near your bird and talk to them or read a book out loud to them (doesn't matter what, they don't speak our language). Do so in a very calm, soothing voice. It helps make them comfortable in your presence. In time, you can start bringing a bird friendly snack with you and eating it, making a big deal out of how yummy it is. Basically, get them interested in the snack and when the bird approaches you voluntarily, you have an immediate reward of food to offer. Sharing food is also a flock activity in nature, so it is showing them in a way they understand not only are you not dangerous, you are in fact accepting them into your flock. Once the bird is comfortable with you and will take food from you, then it's time to move on to teaching how to step up and other things. The process of building trust can take time, so be patient and work at the birds pace!

Please keep us updated and post photos when your new friend is home

 

[MonicaMc]

Trust and understanding can also be gained through training. A bond is not required to train birds. Zoo animals, birds included, are often trained without any human-animal bond.


There's a difference between working with a food motivated bird and a starved bird. Birds who are starved into training may consume large amounts of water, revert to baby behaviors, and consume all of their food first thing in the morning as if it wont appear again. Birds who are food motivated do not consume excess amounts of water, do not revert to baby behaviors, and do not eagerly eat their food as if it's the last meal on earth that they'll ever see.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Lots of good advice above. I suggest there is one small form of behavior modification that is safe here. That’s to ignore any behavior you want to extinguish and reward any behavior you want to encourage. As an example, I “taught” our amazon not to scream by leaving the room when he screamed. When he was quiet I came back. When he made any attention-seeking noise that wasn’t screaming I came right away and gave him a small treat and fussed over him. He picked up on this right away. Sometimes I’d be fixing dinner in the kitchen and gradually become aware of a soft rattle, then look to see him doing flip after flip around his perch - because that was my favorite thing and he always got a reward for it. He’d do it on request for a treat. Once you have established any trust bond at all, things like this will be possible.

In the beginning there is a limited version of this you might try.
1. Cage is situated in the new home in a location where he can see everything that’s going on, but out of the main traffic paths so that no one has to walk close to the cage. Let him settle in here a bit.
2. Once he seems reasonably comfortable in the new location - he’s not freaking out when people go about the house...you can start to desensitize him to your approach.
3. Start outside the room and slowly begin to walk towards the cage. Don’t look right at him, head down, maybe look sideways glance. Watch his body language.
4. The instant he reacts negatively to your approach, stop! Stand where you are for a few seconds, then take one step back. Stop there again and wait until he relaxes a little bit.
5. As soon as he seems to relax, turn and walk back out of the room.

You just tested to see where his spatial boundary is, didn’t push it, and by leaving when he relaxed you rewarded him for relaxing in your presence.

6. Repeat. Every time you walk slowly toward the cage, notice how close you can get before he starts to get nervous. You will find that gradually you can get closer and closer. You’re teaching him that when you walk to him, you aren’t going to hurt him, attack him, catch him....

This trick will help you figure out where to sit when you are reading to him. Sit just at the boundary where he isn’t uncomfortable with your presence, and gradually move closer and closer. Getting him used to your presence like this will be a big help when you begin to ask him for more. It’s the foundation of trust.

The snack idea above is also great. While sitting in the safe zone, begin eating something he recognizes, like a cheese-it or cashew or whatever you know he likes. Say mmm, yum, be happy, ignore him. Eventually he will start watching you. Eventually he will move closer. Eventually he will stare at the great. Eventually you will be able to hold a treat out to him and he won’t run away. Eventually he will take it from your hand. Slowly, slowly. It will go slowly at first, but once trust begins to take changes will come faster. Rushing in the beginning will set you back. The first couple weeks in your home he will be most vulnerable and easy to work with, so take advantage of this time to establish the best relationship you can without pushing him past the edge.

Thanks for doing this. Don’t give up. And share the story! Think how many parrots might be helped by your story in the future!