Training in a business setting

[OrnithAudrey]

Hey y'all, I've been MIA for the past few months for a number of reasons- dad being in/out of the hospital resulting in heart surgery, getting married, computer crashing, and starting a new job as the animal caretaker for my company's birds, monkeys and 30k gallon saltwater aquarium! Yes, it is as amazingly fun and rewarding as it sounds! After a few weeks on the job, I am seeking advice on training three of our birds. I apologize for the length in advance.

To paint the scene: I work for a local family owned, big-time furniture store that has 3 locations. They are insanely lavish and the owner's wife is a big animal lover that's interested in animal experiences and education for customers. My birds are in a huge atrium with individual walk in aviaries. Customers are frequently around watching, so training takes place in front of them in the aviaries (distractions galore...)

Let me preface this by saying very few of the previous or current employees are comfortable working with birds and are intimidated by the larger birds. What interaction has occurred has led to problems that I am now trying to fix, so we can have positive relationships and hopefully do bird talks and encounters in the future. I know many of you have much more experience with large macs, toos and toucans than me, so I am seeking your help!

Rio: He's an 18 month old Hyacinth and the pride and joy of all the employees and customers. Unfortunately, he is lacking in manners. The one girl that worked with him allowed him to get away with murder, as such he is extremely mouthy, not bite pressure trained and always tries to go to the shoulder. In the time that I've worked with him, I've gotten him to step up (kind of), dance and be a LITTLE less mouthy by putting him down and showing him no attention when he starts mouthing me. He is a total people bird, lives for attention and I feel he has great potential, I've just never had to train such a large bird out of bad behaviors and don't really know where to (safely) start.

Major: He's an 18 month old Major Mitchell who, from what I was told, was traumatized by a fired employee. According to everyone I work with, I've made the farthest strides with him, which I find sad as I don't feel I've made it far with him. I found he loves pistachios, so I worked to get him to take them from my hand outside the enclosure, which led to me being able to scratch his head. The second I go in though, he gets as far away as he can and when anyone else goes in, he crashes to the ground. I've been trying to desensitize him by just standing in there and gradually taking a small step closer, wait for him to calm down and repeat. I've never worked with such a terrified bird and it breaks my heart as he has such a sweet disposition.

Fruit Loops: She's a 7 year old keel-billed toucan who was hand raised, but received no hands on interaction from the previous employees because they didn't think of toucans as being "trainable." As such, she has reverted back to being pretty un-handleable. I was warned she always tries to strike at you, but she's only struck at me once and I can now handfeed her blueberries and toss them up for her to catch, but that's as far as we've gotten. I've never worked with a toucan, so really any help/suggestions at all are appreciated.

If you made it through this novel, thank you and any help or advice you can give is sincerely appreciated by myself and my feathered co-workers!

 

[Mallory]

I don't have much to add unfortunately, but I do think you are doing a wonderful job! Keep up the good work. Especially with the too and the toucan, they will likely take a long time to come around. It will be baby steps like you are doing now, gradually asking for more contact in exchange for food rewards until you are able to enter the enclosure and then ultimately station them on a training perch and even handle them. Once you get them to the point you can start training behaviors, look for behaviors you can train and put on cue that are incompatible with fear/evasion behaviors. You could start for now by using a target stick through the enclosure. You could even establish a colored "station" perch and ultimately transition to using the same color on your arm via duct tape or a towel to encourage the bird, since step up will likely be a challenge once you get to that point. Get creative and don't give up! Progress is slow, and if you find yourself discouraged, start keeping a journal so you can see how far you've gotten. A journal would also be a great way to show your progress to your employer.

As for the hyacinth, I hope some macaw people will step in soon to give you advice. Until then, I would recommend you back up and establish manners and some trained behaviors from a training perch. Absolutely no more shoulders from now on since this bird is mouthy. I think using attention to reward the hyacinth and taking away that attention as negative punishment in response to mouthiness is a great strategy. All three of these birds can do some damage and you don't want a large macaw or cockatoo beak near your face unless you really trust that bird! I have a big background in operant conditioning with many animals, so if you have specific questions I can go into way more detail. I'm trying to work on my own novel-writing tendencies though.

 

[OrnithAudrey]

Thank you for the kind words! I by no means consider myself a professional trainer (which is ironic since now I technically am one ) so I'm always open to any advice or tips. I just refuse to stand by and let these guys be "ornaments" when they are capable of so much more, not to mention it's great experience for me! I know Major is going to be a lot of time, patience and love, but I so want to make him comfortable around people because he has such a sweet personality from outside his aviary. I've contemplated putting a jackpot of pistachios in one of our crates, waiting for him to go in and taking him back to my work room where it's quiet, away from his cage and other people, but I just don't know if it would make him feel more comfortable or if it would traumatize him more. He's the most skittish bird I've ever worked with. I do like the colored perch/arm transition idea and have never heard that before. It will be quite some time before I'm at that point with Major, but I think that could work well with Fruit Loops. And hey, I like novels! More writing means more information!

 

[Birdman666]

To paint the scene: I work for a local family owned, big-time furniture store that has 3 locations. They are insanely lavish and the owner's wife is a big animal lover that's interested in animal experiences and education for customers. My birds are in a huge atrium with individual walk in aviaries. Customers are frequently around watching, so training takes place in front of them in the aviaries (distractions galore...)

YOU NEED TO BE THE THING THE BIRDS FOCUS ON... THEY NEED TO BE BONDED ENOUGH TO YOU TO PAY ATTENTION IN PUBLIC.

Rio: He's an 18 month old Hyacinth and the pride and joy of all the employees and customers. Unfortunately, he is lacking in manners. The one girl that worked with him allowed him to get away with murder, as such he is extremely mouthy, not bite pressure trained and always tries to go to the shoulder. In the time that I've worked with him, I've gotten him to step up (kind of), dance and be a LITTLE less mouthy by putting him down and showing him no attention when he starts mouthing me. He is a total people bird, lives for attention and I feel he has great potential, I've just never had to train such a large bird out of bad behaviors and don't really know where to (safely) start.

HYS THAT AREN'T BITE PRESSURE TRAINED ARE NO JOKE. THEY ARE GENTLE BY NATURE, BUT DON'T BELIEVE FOR A SECOND THEY CAN'T DEVELOP THE SAME LARGE MACAW DOMINANCE ISSUES AS ALL THE OTHERS IF THEY DON'T HAVE BOUNDARIES ENFORCED...

BOUNDARY SETTING IS KEY.

AND YES, ALL MACAWS ARE ATTENTION ORIENTED, AND THE WITHHOLDING OF ATTENTION IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY OF TRAINING THEM.


DANG! THE CHANCE TO PLAY WITH A HY-HY AGAIN WOULD ALMOST BE WORTH THE LONG DRIVE TO KATY...

Major: He's an 18 month old Major Mitchell who, from what I was told, was traumatized by a fired employee. According to everyone I work with, I've made the farthest strides with him, which I find sad as I don't feel I've made it far with him. I found he loves pistachios, so I worked to get him to take them from my hand outside the enclosure, which led to me being able to scratch his head. The second I go in though, he gets as far away as he can and when anyone else goes in, he crashes to the ground. I've been trying to desensitize him by just standing in there and gradually taking a small step closer, wait for him to calm down and repeat. I've never worked with such a terrified bird and it breaks my heart as he has such a sweet disposition.

IS THERE A TIME WHEN YOU CAN JUST GO IN AND SIT WITH HIM, GRADUALLY GET HIM TO THE POINT WHERE YOU CAN STEP HIM UP? I'VE WORKED WITH A LOT OF THEM, AND THE KEY IS TO GET THEM TO ACCEPT IT THE FIRST FEW TIMES. ONCE THEY GET OVER IT, THEY'RE OVER IT. GETTING THEM TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO HANDLE THEM THE FIRST FEW TIMES?! USUALLY A STRUGGLE. HOWEVER IT HAPPENS, IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN... IS THERE A TIME BEFORE OR AFTER HOURS YOU CAN WORK WITH THIS ONE?

Fruit Loops: She's a 7 year old keel-billed toucan who was hand raised, but received no hands on interaction from the previous employees because they didn't think of toucans as being "trainable." As such, she has reverted back to being pretty un-handleable. I was warned she always tries to strike at you, but she's only struck at me once and I can now handfeed her blueberries and toss them up for her to catch, but that's as far as we've gotten. I've never worked with a toucan, so really any help/suggestions at all are appreciated.

TOUCANS ARE EXTREMELY TRAINABLE!!! IN FACT, YOU CAN TEACH THEM TO DO FLIPS ON COMMAND!!!

AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE ANY BITE PRESSURE!!! THEY DO TEND TO BE ON THE SHY SIDE IF THEY HAVEN'T BEEN HANDLED MUCH. I HAD A FRIEND IN NORCAL THAT WAS A TOCO BREEDER... HAVEN'T REALLY PLAYED WITH A KB...

ARE KB TOUCANS THE ONES THAT HAVE A HACKSAW FOR A BEAK?! I KNOW A COUPLE OF THEM DO, I THOUGHT THEY WERE ONE OF THEM. I'VE ONLY REALLY PLAYED WITH TOCO'S (AND THEY WERE FUN!)

BE CAREFUL WITH THE TOUCAN DIET... THEY ARE EXTREMELY VULNERABLE TO IRON STORAGE DISEASE...

 

[Birdman666]

I'm going to be in trial the entire month of February. Can I arrange to come down and play with them sometime in March-ish?! Would that be do-able?!

(I promise I'm not trying to steal your job!)

 

[OrnithAudrey]

I get there by 9 AM, but the store doesn't open until 10, so I usually take some of that time to go in and just sit on the ground in the MM2's cage (average about 15-20 minutes lately) As far as handling him a few times to make him get over it, is there any method in particular you would recommend? It would have to be forceful with him because, like I said, he is petrified of people in his cage and gets as far away as possible. I just worry about it causing him to really distrust me and making our relationship go backwards.

I did know toucans are trainable which is why I'm trying to work with her and change everybody's mentality about them, especially since they have a toco at another location. KBs do have a nicely serrated beak, so that's fun! I was actually impressed with the diet they had her on, they at least did research that. She gets predominantly melon, blueberries and some grapes, the toucan pellets and black tea every other month. I've read they should ideally get papaya as well, which I'm working on getting for her. Since you have a breeder friend, do you happen to know about what water they should get? I've read and researched and it seems to be 50/50 about whether they should get distilled or if tap is ok.

I think coming in March would definitely be doable. You are more than welcome to steal my job for the day! I think it would be a great learning experience for myself and the birds and might even teach the others that the big, bad birds won't kill them!

 

[Birdman666]

Especially if I bring Maggie...

Yeah, I thought the KB's were the hacksaw blade birds... So yeah, unlike toco's those guys can cut you up if they do that rapid back and forth thing. Need the towels under a long sleeved shirt to prevent that from happening.

As for the too... as gently as possible, with a towel if necessary. Then sit down with the bird on your lap, and make the experience worth his while... THE POSITIVE EXPERIENCE IS THE INTERACTION. RUNNING AROUND HAVING TO BE CAUGHT IS THE UNNECESSARY NEGATIVE. READ THAT EXCITEMENT POST AGAIN. CHECK OUT WHAT I HAD TO DO WITH THE GW MAC...

http://www.parrotforums.com/macaws/53118-excitement.html

 

[MonicaMc]

My take may be a little different...


Rio: He's an 18 month old Hyacinth and the pride and joy of all the employees and customers. Unfortunately, he is lacking in manners. The one girl that worked with him allowed him to get away with murder, as such he is extremely mouthy, not bite pressure trained and always tries to go to the shoulder. In the time that I've worked with him, I've gotten him to step up (kind of), dance and be a LITTLE less mouthy by putting him down and showing him no attention when he starts mouthing me. He is a total people bird, lives for attention and I feel he has great potential, I've just never had to train such a large bird out of bad behaviors and don't really know where to (safely) start.

Have you tried giving him something to do other than being mouthy? From the sounds of it, he's a very curious bird... so what about giving him a foot toy to play with? Or teaching him to fetch an object and bring it to your hand? Or dropping the object into a container?

It's a little harder for Rio to be mouthy if he's rewarded for having something *else* in his mouth other than human flesh!


Major: He's an 18 month old Major Mitchell who, from what I was told, was traumatized by a fired employee. According to everyone I work with, I've made the farthest strides with him, which I find sad as I don't feel I've made it far with him. I found he loves pistachios, so I worked to get him to take them from my hand outside the enclosure, which led to me being able to scratch his head. The second I go in though, he gets as far away as he can and when anyone else goes in, he crashes to the ground. I've been trying to desensitize him by just standing in there and gradually taking a small step closer, wait for him to calm down and repeat. I've never worked with such a terrified bird and it breaks my heart as he has such a sweet disposition.

I would not recommend flooding him... it could potentially cause him to become worse, not better.

Would it be safe enough to teach him to target all around his enclosure for that pistachio? Once he can target all over, then open the door, but keep targeting through the wires for a while? Over time, you could then work on targeting towards the door and maybe through the door?


Fruit Loops: She's a 7 year old keel-billed toucan who was hand raised, but received no hands on interaction from the previous employees because they didn't think of toucans as being "trainable." As such, she has reverted back to being pretty un-handleable. I was warned she always tries to strike at you, but she's only struck at me once and I can now handfeed her blueberries and toss them up for her to catch, but that's as far as we've gotten. I've never worked with a toucan, so really any help/suggestions at all are appreciated.

I've heard blueberries are a favorite among toucans!!! I may have an opportunity to work with some myself! Well, these are actually the smaller cousins, the aracari's!


I would also recommend target training with Fruit Loops! Teach her to target towards an item for a reward! Then get her moving towards the target for reward!

 

[rahernan]

Fruit Loops: She's a 7 year old keel-billed toucan who was hand raised, but received no hands on interaction from the previous employees because they didn't think of toucans as being "trainable." As such, she has reverted back to being pretty un-handleable. I was warned she always tries to strike at you, but she's only struck at me once and I can now handfeed her blueberries and toss them up for her to catch, but that's as far as we've gotten. I've never worked with a toucan, so really any help/suggestions at all are appreciated.

Alright, so I have two curl crested aracaris and trust me blueberries go a long way. They will do anything to get them. If she isn't very handleable I would start with target training. Also toucans don't necessarily "step up" since they like hoping from place to place so it'd be easier to train to hop onto to your arm once you've target trained and after that recall is very easy. (It took mine a day to learn recall... they are very smart). I also recommend trying to get a ping pong ball for it play with when your interacting with it... either getting to catch or roll it around and have it chase it (mine love it). Hope this helps