Too young for clipped wings? Can he learn to fly?

[Kalel]

Hello everyone! I am currently looking to adopt a new bird and I saw one in a pet store the other day that I am interested in. It is a 4 months old sun conure and I was told they got it from a breeder and finished hand feeding it in the store where it was weaned and had its wings clipped. They told me it was easier to have its wings clipped because it's easier to hand feed and also it's safer for it, makes it a better pet if it can't fly, etc. I asked "isn't it important for a bird to learn how to fly prior to clipping/trimming?" They didn't seem to think it mattered. According to them, this bird never learned how to fly. They said they would hold it and run with it in their palm while it flapped its wings to give it the feeling that it's flying-something I've never heard of before. Anyways, how are your feelings on this? Is this a pet shop that has employees that don't know what they are doing or is it not that bad that this bird can't fly? I am considering letting my bird be fully flighted, but if I get this little guy would that be irresponsible of me to do so? I mean will he be too clumsy/weak of a flier now that he's already flightless at this young age? Will he learn to fly when his flight feathers come in at this later stage in his developement? I am not sure what to do. I don't want an improperly raised bird but at the same time I feel bad making the bird pay for the mistake or ignorance of a human if indeed there was a mistake made. Make sense? Any input or experience with this is greatly appreciated. I am sure there are going to be different opinions on this but I'd love to hear yours no matter what view you have regarding this issue. Thanks!

 

[Birdman666]

THAT can mess them up! Especially if it's a too or a CAG.

Abundance weaning and fledging are critical developments in a bird's life. If they don't do it, they tend to have confidence issues later on in life, and studies suggest there is a strong correlation between plucking disorders and other neurotic behaviors, and not being allowed to abundance wean or fledge.

Once they learn to fly, you can gradually scale back on their flying capabilities until they are semi-flighted, BUT THEY ARE BIRDS. BY DEFINITION THEY MUST LEARN HOW TO FLY AND LAND SAFELY.

It really leads to confidence issues later on in life.

Like a child who is continuously told "You can't" until they don't even try.

 

[mh434]

Many feel it's safer to have their birds clipped. I'm of the other school of thought (I have dogs, and I feel that a bird needs to have its only method of self protection intact).

That having been said, you DO have to be supremely careful to have a secure house if a flighted bird has free access to the house, for obvious reasons (check the "lost birds" section of the forum for examples).

ALL of my birds (only 7 assorted parrots at the moment) are free flighted, with the exception of our CAG Reno, who is..."self-clipped" (he was a feather-chewer in his previous home, although his feathers are coming back now), and we have to be supremely careful with him around the dogs.

The bird you're considering will learn to fly when his wing feathers grow back. While they do learn from watching their siblings and parents, most of flight abilities are instinctive. If you were to watch the bird you're considering while he's in his cage, you'll see him hold on to his perch & flap like crazy. He's toning & strengthening his wing muscles, so they're ready for flight.

It's fun to help them learn to fly, too! I had to do this with a now-passed 'Zon. I went into a closed, large bedroom and encouraged him to take off from my arm. A few times, he fell a couple of feet (onto a bed covered with pillows & a down comforter) with no issues at all. It didn't take long for him to get the idea. Actually, it's "sticking" the landings which seems to take the most practice - they need to learn when to flare (& more-or-less hover) for their intended landing spot. They get it, pretty quick, though...

When they first get flying, their absolute joy is heartwarming. Sometimes, they just like to fly around for the pure enjoyment of it, without any particular destination in mind.

 

[Dinosrawr]

My boyfriend worked at a pet store, and no - most of them have NO clue when it comes to birds. They have little to no proper training on the subject. That doesn't mean some aren't knowledgable, but they are far and few between if it's not a pet store that specializes in birds.

Avery, my GCC, came from a pet store and was severely clipped at 3 months old. It took her TWO years to have enough confidence to fly without my prompting through flight recall (which she learned at 5 months), and honestly I don't think she would've really learned if it wasn't for my IRN. Sure, she could fly and take off when she was scared because of instinct, but flying for the sheer joy of it? Not so much. Now she can, and she does, and it's SO good for her.

In comparison, I got my IRN from a breeder who let him fledge as a baby and then gave them a soft clip to prevent too much crazy flying. He is SO confident and he goes where he wants when he wants. He has the freedom of choice to be where he is, and if he wants to go play with his toys or be with me, he does it. With Avery, she had to rely entirely on me to get where she wanted because she had no confidence in her flying ability.

And a clip doesn't HAVE to make a bird drop like a rock. I think a safely done clip allows for enough lift to get a few feet around and leaves enough flight feathers for a safe landing. At the end of the day, what you decide to do is up to you. Neither choice is permanent, which is the beauty of it.

 

[BruceV]

My quaker came to us clipped about a year ago. He now finally has flight feathers on one wing and the other wing is starting to come in. Simba, our macaw is fully flighted but chooses not to. Blue, the IRN plucked hers, so she doesn't have feathers to sustain flight yet, although she does flutter gracefully the floor when she tries. I'm not sure what will come of the Quaker. He has tried in vain to fly, so he probably has no confidence. I am aquainted with a woman who manages a pet store and insists that clipping is the only safe way to have a bird in the house. I disagree.

 

[Kalel]

Thanks everyone for your input. Birdman666 it is not a too or a CAG, but rather a sun conure. He is very playful with toys and interested in what is in your hand. He is extremely friendly and likes to be scratched and was comfortable enough to lot let me hold him on his back and rub his belly the first time I ever held him. Seems like a great little bird. I guess I have some more thinking to do!

Dinosrawr I agree with you! I mean I am no bird expert, but just with a little bit of research I can already pick off all of the misinformation some pet shop employees give me. I'm sure they mean well, but like you said they aren't experts by any means. I guess the only positive of a pet shop is you get to interact with a pet before purchasing. With many breeders it seems that you have to put down a deposit on a newly hatched baby or egg and then pick it up without ever even meeting it. It takes the whole bird picks you part out of the equation! I mean is that normal practice? Just picking a bird and putting down a deposit based on a picture the breeder emails you?

 

[veimar]

Oh don't worry! If you help him/her a bit he can become a very good flier! My gcc Parry came form a pet store barely weaned and clipped very short. He had no idea how to use his wings (and his beak as well). I taught him to fly, and he is a rocket flyer now, even after I had to clip him again after a bad injury he had in fall. He does all this crazy tricks in the air and never falls air hits anything. I think that birds who learn to fly on clipped wings become better fliers after molting than those with all the feathers from beginning (and my lovebird is a perfect example of the "always flighted" bird - she cannot even compare with Parry at the speed and "virtuosity").

 

[Dinosrawr]

Because of where I live, I'm unable to meet the species of birds that I'm genuinely interested in. They don't sell here and the closest place that does is a province away, so with Shiko we did put a deposit down. While it does take the bird picking you out of the equation, you still have to opportunity to see them grow throw pictures and stories your breeder tells you (if you've chosen a reputable breeder, that is).

I know when Shiko came to me I was worried about the bond, but he loves me and my boyfriend. I actually think he's lost without us at times, he's almost overly attached in some regards really. So not being able to interact at a young age with the bird doesn't mean that they don't come to love you. If that were the case, no parrot rescue would ever succeed in rehoming a bird after all

 

[Anansi]

In answer to your original question, yes, it is VERY possible to clip a birds wings too early. A bird should always be allowed to fledge. Period. The whole debate regarding whether or not to clip comes into play later, and that is a matter of personal opinion. But Mark (Birdman666) is correct. Some studies have shown that fledging ties into confidence and some aspects of cognitive development.

That said, however, the degree to which not being allowed to fledge will affect each bird varies from one fid to the next. Some have such spunky personalities that even the lack of fledging will not prevent them from having confidence. And some are so innately gifted at flight that they can still become excellent fliers despite an early clipping.

A bird clipped before proper fledging is not doomed, so don't let that deter you. Innate gift for flight or not, they can still become good fliers. And they can still develop healthy levels of confidence. It may just require a little more work than it otherwise might have.

 

[Kalel]

Thank you to everyone for all of your input and advice! It really does make me feel better for choosing this little guy if that is what I end up doing! I was just feeling confused about the whole thing but everything that all of you said makes sense! Dinosrawr, you make some good points as well with respect to adopting without meeting a bird. So thank you for that also.

 

[ZoeS]

My GCC was clipped when I got her. The breeder said she had learned to fly before clipping, but either lied or my bird forgot because she has not flown since (it's been about 5 years now). She got a bit better at gliding (instead of just falling straight to the ground), but despite my efforts to encourage her to fly, and her cage-mate who flies, she simply refuses to go anywhere that she can't hop to.

 

[Kalel]

Interesting. Well, I guess some will and some won't!

 

[ZoeS]

Yeah, I guess Libs is not too adventurous! I tried to train her by slightly increasing the "hop" distance, using a treat to coax her across. It would get to a distance point where she'd just look at me and go "nope, too far" and just refuse.

That said, although I wish she could fly, it hasn't had enormous repercussions that I've noticed. She knows how to get where she wants by bobbing in that direction and I'll carry her.

 

[Kalel]

Well, she sounds smart enough to get you to be her personal travel assistant I guess some members on here were saying that not knowing how to fly is more detrimental to some bigger species of birds like toos, for example. I think the conures might be different and it doesn't affect them as much. Seems like your little Libs is a perfect example of that!

 

[ZoeS]

Haha, oh yes, I'm well trained! I do think it's better for birds to be able to fly, obviously, but I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker. I would hope there's other way to stimulate even larger birds. I wonder too if a the larger parrots would have an easier time learning, especially those closely bonded with their human. Libs is bonded most closely to her buddy; maybe if it was just the two of us, she'd be more interested in my teachings.

 

[Giggleagain]

My Clover couldn't fly either. She was 5 years old when I rescued her. Her wings had always been clipped. She didn't even try to float or get to the floor. She thought she was a perch bird I am not an actor, but I played one for her! I flapped my arms and ran from the living room through to the hallways, the kitchen and back into the living room for WEEKS screaming "I'm an eagle, I can fly"... hahahaha.

Eventually she started lifting her wings a little and flapping them when I flapped my arms. We progressed as her feathers were growing out and today, 10 months later, Clover is the ruler of the entire house. She flies around tight corners, downstairs, upstairs, and everywhere she wants to be. She flies AWAY when she feels I'll do anything that displeases her. I'm considering trimming her wings a bit (not really, just saying)

You are her role model, her momma bird. If you're an eagle and can fly, so can she!

 

[Kalel]

Giggleagain, that's an awesome story! Thanks!

 

[Delfin]

Both my birds fly and they are happy and well adjusted. This is because we spend a large amount time bonding and building trust with Delfin and now Mulawa. In my experience I haven't found it harder to train Delfin and Mulawa Because they can fly.

We have only had Mulawa for a short time yet Mulawa is no longer biting, is stepping up and down, will fly to my hand and occasionally choose the top of my head instead. Recently, she is flying to sit with me when I'm on the Laptop. I believe that Delfin has a lot to do with that. I don't force my birds to do anything, I ask them if they would like to.

 

[JellyBean]

You have had loads of brilliant advice, but my tuppence worth. I got my GCC JellyBean from a pet store (on a whim!!!) - he was 5 months old, his wings were clipped and all he could do was flap whilst falling so to speak... but after about 2 months I noticed he was starting to get some lift... flight feathers were growing... exciting!

I didn't clip his wings again.. but watched him so from strength to strength practising flying.. he was pure magic, flying for joy!. He had a hard time trying to get around corners.. was so funny to watch him go past the door three or four times, before he finally could turn to me...

I also read on this forum on the importance of a bird being able to fly down to you (if he escaped on was on a high perch) and that is one of the hardest flying feats for a bird.. He now does it with ease...

I could not imagine my precious bird not flying.. especially the days you call him and he comes flying at top speed and screeching from another part of the house to perch beautifully on your shoulder!