The tiresome biting...

[a_osborne]

I realize that, having only just bought Adrian on Saturday, she's not going to magically be friendly. However, I'm feeling discouraged because she will step up onto my bare hand and act fine but then clamp down on my wrist or finger so hard she's drawing blood and leaving large welts. I don't react but just sit her down for a moment and get my bearings but this last bite had me in tears. It's making me fearful of attempting to hold her because I don't want her to re-open already bitten areas. She'll step up onto my hand with a rag over it and will nibble a little but nothing more. I don't want her to only be used to that though, I want her to familiarize with my bare hand without ripping a finger off! She holds on so tightly that I can barely get her off. Is there anything I can do other than attempting to distract with millet? That has not worked at all thus far and neither have toys.

 

[RavensGryf]

Wow, she's so young I'm surprised she's biting that hard already. Usually young babies will "beak" and nibble, and do it maybe a little too hard while they're feeling around, but that sort of 'real biting' you describe is usually not seen that young I don't think, unless they get terrified (for example putting on a harness before they're ready for it and they think it's life or death). We need to nip this in the bud now!

What I personally do when the beaking is too hard (or they've started to discover biting), I say a firm "no", place my index finger right at the top of the beak, and say 'no biting'.... Still with my finger a little out of reach, then say "gentle...gentle..." with a calmer more quiet voice. After several times birds being smart, usually will "get it" and know what you mean after several times. When they "get it" and immediately switch to a more gentle nibble, praise heavily every time, or praise and small treat. If they still bite, they get a firm "No, no biting" with your finger gently touching above the top beak but so they can't grab it, and immediately back in the cage with the door shut. Don't say anymore, walk away. Try again in a bit. Everytime they bite (not beak, but real bite) they lose privilege. Everytime that they comply, remember to positively reinforce with praise or praise and small treat. Good luck Keep us posted.

 

[a_osborne]

Yes, I am shocked at how hard she is biting too! I can't think of what would scare her because I handle her in a very quiet environment with no distractions or frightening things around. It's always seemingly out of nowhere too. She'll just be happily sitting and eating millet or something then BAM! She's clamped on and I think I'll never get her off. I've read that putting them back in the cage can be bad because you don't want the cage to be punishment but I've tried doing sort of a "time out". I read that in the book "parrot problem solver" by Barbara Heidenreich. Since I don't have a T perch, I set her on the floor and ignore her for about a minute. Then she'll step right up, sit quietly for a moment, and bite the crap out of me again! I've been doing all handling while sitting on the floor in case I have to put her down quickly so it's not liking I'm putting her down and walking away but just turning away from her. She'll even walk over and nudge my knee to be picked back up but then misbehaves again. It's crazy! She really enjoys millet so when she steps up onto the towel nicely, I praise and give millet. Then I'll try with my hand and praise the step up with millet but she immediately bites rather than accept the treat. Idk why she even steps up if she is just going to bite and therefore not be allowed to stay on my hand. Stumped

 

[RavensGryf]

I do understand you're frustration there!
I think because you are still right there on the floor, Adrian doesn't get that you're ignoring her. She knows she is still able to get your attention and do what she pleases.

As far as the book, B. Heidenreich's techniques are very popular because for the most part positive reinforcement works, but remember, no style or method of training is necessarily going to work 100% (or quickly enough) in every situation and for every single bird. So instead of a 'cookie cutter' approach, sometimes a more difficult individual might 'understand' better by using different approaches and thinking 'outside the box'. Don't look at it as "negative, or punishment". This is both my opinion and that of many other experienced members as it has been discussed. Here is a link to that (lengthy :52 yet interesting discussion... http://www.parrotforums.com/training/43631-old-vs-modern-techniques.html
Good luck

 

[a_osborne]

Thank you, RavensGryf. I will check out that discussion. Perhaps you are right about me not ignoring her completely. I also just thought of something else. When I handle her, I'm always right next to her cage. I wonder if she is biting partially because her cage is within sight and she wants back in, so she thinks if she bites I will just put her right back into it. Hmm.

 

[Nexus]

It's probably a bad idea to not react, otherwise they won't understand that what they're doing is wrong. Be firm, raise your voice (but don't scream) and put her back in the cage.

I ADORE indian ringnecks but the biting does worry me, which is why I'm yet to buy one. I've read about this 'bluffing' stage, but then again, some people don't have any problems. So I'm in two minds atm.

 

[a_osborne]

I just bought a t perch on amazon so I hope to use that for the "time out" method. I really don't want to make the cage a form of punishment. I want it to be a place she likes being. However, I also don't want to reward her by putting her back in the cage if it happens to be what she wants. Really hoping having a perch to put her on will help. As far as you getting an IRN, it seems to me like this is fairly unusual. I researched them for a long time before purchasing and read all about bluffing but have never heard anything about this level of biting from a baby. Boy are their beaks sharp and strong!

 

[Pinkbirdy]

I don't own any "Ringnecks" .Im sure they have their certain ways . But I have enough other species. That I had to [learn your bird] . Try everything, think outside the box. My Green cheek I have to let out and let him climb to the top of his cage . then he will step up . If not he will bite the crap out of me. He likes to be pet only on the back of his head. My new caique I have to slowly go to take him off my shoulder. My zon wants to step up on a perch to come out. My other caiques want to run around the playstand before they want to see me. They are trying to tell us what they want. He is biting you for a reason. Try something different.

 

[a_osborne]

Pinkbirdy, oh yes I'm a big believer in really just learning and knowing your birds. Or any pet. I'm just trying to think of other things to try! I'm very anxious to try once I get the perch tomorrow. I just know she's not a mean bird, I just know it!

 

[veimar]

I just got an untamed adult cockatiel yesterday and he bit me very hard when I put him from the carrier to the cage. None of my parrots had ever drawn blood before, so I was a bit shocked. (I'm a pianist and really have to keep my fingers safe - it really hurts to practice now) I'm not sure if I did a right thing, but I put on skin colored leather gloves to handle him today - I had to clip his wing feathers and I knew he would bite a *** out of me. He was biting my gloves so passionately that he didn't even notice that I was clipping his wings. It REALLY helped, and after I finished trimming he kept perching on my hand and even let me pet him. But I felt so much safer in gloves. I took off my gloves pretty soon and he didn't really bite my hands anymore - I hope he got used to them. So maybe you could use gloves too? But they should be soft and similar color with skin.
A perch is a good idea as well - I used it a lot with my gcc when I trained him to step up.

 

[a_osborne]

Thanks for the tip, Veimar! I do have gloves and have worn them twice with her. She bit terribly with and without them but I'm going to continue trying everything. I'm not a pianist...just a bit wimpy

 

[a_osborne]

Wow, Delfin, thanks so much! Seems like you and I are on the same page about a lot of the thing not to do but you also said several things I hadn't thought of like offering multiple foods on a plate to choose from. I also like the idea of a perch on the door though I anticipate a lot of training will go into that! I will have to buy a clicker at the bird store this weekend and start with it. In the mean time, my t perch should arrive today and I'm home alone so the house is nice and quiet. I will be starting with that and let you all know how it goes!

 

[veimar]

I also wanted to add, that when my gcc was biting me in beginning (he was never a hard biter, but it still did hurt a couple of times) I made a very angry and upset face and scolded him in a quiet hissing voice. I read somewhere that is you bird bites you should give it a dirty look. It actually really worked for me - he has never bitten me since then. But at the time I was doing this he was already bonded to me quite a bit.

 

[Dinosrawr]

Delfin has some awesome advice there. I just want to add that birds strongly react to your emotions... I've actually experimented with this with both my conure and my ringneck. Avery will sometimes randomly attack my hand, and so I have tried two things when it does to see which works best:

1) quickly restraining her so she can no longer bite, saying no very calmly, and placing her back in her cage for a time out

Or

2) taking the bite while very gently and softly asking her why she's biting and what's wrong.

I'm sure it won't surprise you which one works - being gentle and calm with her absolutely STOPS her. I think it's because she realizes I'm not trying to do anything wrong and then feels bad for attacking me, but her and I have a strong bond. Same goes for Shiko - he isn't allowed on Avery's cage just like she isn't allowed on his, but sometimes he pushes those boundaries. If I calmly ask him to step up, he comes right off. If I'm frantic or upset, he gets frantic and upset too.

Thankfully Shiko never actually bites, but I would suggest working on ways to make Adrian recognize your hand as a positive thing. Always getting treats, positive interactions, and fun toys makes for a great place to be. Once there's a positive connotation (especially if food motivated), you'll find they really want to be there. But it will take time.

 

[a_osborne]

@Delfin, sorry I just saw your comment! Thanks for the input. That's cute that Delfin has dinner with the family! Had to giggle a little at that mental image.