The sweet GCC conure is now a SCREAMING conure - help!

[Gillis]

So I've had Peanut for close to two weeks now. He's just over one year old. Right from the start he was very social, loving, and trusting and it wasn't hard at all to build an initial bond with him. He has been eating well - seeds, pellets, fruit, nuts, though he won't touch a vegetable.

When he first arrived he tested his boundaries with bite pressure and by non-reaction and gentle scolding "time-outs" he learned quickly that there is absolutely no biting allowed, though he is still very beaky and that's fine as long as it's not a bite.

Recently he has been testing his limits on screaming and I am at a loss. Today he has made me want to pull out my hair. My other parrot - an already stressed rescue African Grey whom I've also had for two weeks (he is a long story) - has started mimicking his screams and today revered back to plucking and plucked a lot of down when he had been doing so good. So the screaming isn't only affecting me!

He started this maybe about five days ago. His cage was initially put in a spare bedroom so I could monitor the cat's behavior, but within the first week was moved into the living room with the other bird and with me. He spends a lot (3-4 hours a day) of out-of-cage time throughout the day. It was ok for the first few days, then he began to scream when he was in the cage and I was out of sight doing laundry or whatever. Now he screams at 2-second intervals every single time I go out of sight and he will not stop. I've tried ignoring him, I've tried rewarding quiet behavior with nuts, I've tried more time-outs by putting the blanket over his cage for no more than five minutes at a time when he screams particularly loudly. He was quiet under the blanket at first and I would reward him when I took it off, now he just screams with it on and it's not effective. I have never taken him out while he is still screaming, and yes he does get 10-12 of sleep every night.

Today I moved his cage back into the spare room to see if that would help. Still screaming, but a little quieter.

The other thing that might be related to this is that he has absolutely no interest what-so-ever in toys. He just doesn't play. All he cares to do is be on me or be on his "tree" that he can destroy and tear apart. He won't destroy, touch, or even look at anything that's in his cage. I've tried playing with his toys so he can see, I've tried hiding treats in toys, making new toys, everything I can think of he just won't do it, he just sits in his cage frustrated and grouchy that he's not outside.

Am I missing something here? What can I do better or do differently to help both Paco and I out? Thanks so much for any input!

 

[Taw5106]

Sounds like he wants to be with you 100%. I make my fids stay in their cages when I am working. I work from home so 6-8 hours, they can see me, but they can't be with me. Right now my ekkie is very hormonal so I have been plugging my headphones in my ears to save my ears from her beeping. It does help! I can turn music on (which I love) and I can focus on work without feeling guilty about my fids.

You might want to consider some "time out" periods. This way they learn to be independent, and entertain themselves.

 

[Gillis]

Sounds like he wants to be with you 100%. I make my fids stay in their cages when I am working. I work from home so 6-8 hours, they can see me, but they can't be with me. Right now my ekkie is very hormonal so I have been plugging my headphones in my ears to save my ears from her beeping. It does help! I can turn music on (which I love) and I can focus on work without feeling guilty about my fids.

You might want to consider some "time out" periods. This way they learn to be independent, and entertain themselves.

I don't work from home but when I do work around the house the birds are in the cages. And that's the problem. And time outs haven't been effective, but thanks for the suggestion!

 

[MyFlock]

Birdman666 should have some good advice, hopefully he will get to your thread soon!

Your Green cheek sounds like my Jenday and Sunday, neither will play with toys and they scream when I'm out of sight. I wish I had advice for you. I've read that you're supposed to prevent the screaming before it starts, not sure how to do that when they won't play with toys??? Luckily, both of my Green cheeks are toy players.

 

[Gillis]

Birdman666 should have some good advice, hopefully he will get to your thread soon!

Your Green cheek sounds like my Jenday and Sunday, neither will play with toys and they scream when I'm out of sight. I wish I had advice for you. I've read that you're supposed to prevent the screaming before it starts, not sure how to do that when they won't play with toys??? Luckily, both of my Green cheeks are toy players.

So you haven't been able to do anything about it either? Yikes! One of the reasons I got a Green Cheek in the first place was the supposedly "lower" noise level. I know they are all individuals of course, and I love my boy so I hope we can work this out! And that's exactly what I'm worried about - how the heck do you get him to occupy himself if he won't play?! :11:

 

[Anansi]

Hello, Gillis. Part of the problem you are having resides squarely with your expectations. Notice what you said earlier in response to Tracey's timeout suggestion. You stated that timeouts haven't been effective. But how would you know? It's only been two weeks.

Fact is, timeouts and positive reinforcement can take weeks or even months to work. It all depends on the individual bird and just how much of a stubborn streak they possess. Not to mention that both birds have a lot of NEW to digest all at once. New humans, new birds, new home, new expectations. That's a lot to process in so short a perod.

I know that's not something you want to hear when his screams are driving you nuts at the moment, but it may take some time.

When you do have him out with you, keep him stimulated and happy. Target training and other such sessions will help stimulate his mind while also deepening the bond between you. This is important both because it will help release some of his pent up energy (which = less screaming) and it will make timeouts more effective. You see, the more bonded he is to you, the more effective your walking away will be.

And while showing him how to play with toys has not worked YET, this doesn't mean that it will never work. Again, it's only been 2 weeks. Also, try different types of toys. Paper, leather, rope, wood, plastic, etc.

So much of successfully training a parrot revolves around patience and persistence. Give him time to form the associations in his mind between your corrective measures and his bad behavior. He'll get there, eventually.

 

[Kyoto]

I am so lucky that Kyo is a chatterer rather than a screamer.

The only times she does scream are in the morning and when I get home from being out (because she is EXCITED!! MOMMY!!)

There have been very rare occasions when I've had to be out of the room while I'm home, or keeping her caged while I write a test and she will go off a bit... I just don't find her screaming that bad and can ignore it.

Another thing that helps me, was getting her a cage for the living room. When I know I have to be downstairs for long periods of time, I lock the cats away and bring her into her living room cage. While she isn't a huge fan of it yet, it allows her to be closer to me while I'm tidying the living room or doing dishes etc.

Kyo also has a bad biting problem, which developed about 2 weeks after we got her. It has taken close to 4 months to make any progress. Even though it isn't screaming, it's still an unwanted behaviour. Birds don't have the same sense of time as we do. In these 4 months though, she has gone from biting nonstop everyday to having mostly good days where shell nip a few times, and the occasional string of bad days where she is cranky and nippy (like today! little brat.)

You will have good days and bad days. On the bad days, remember the good days and it will make it a lot easier to not give up. You will have a breakthrough with persistence and hard work eventually.

I also wanted to add, it can take a lot of attempts to get them to play! Kyo was always a fan of toys in her cage, but I still struggle to get her to play when she's out of the cage because of her desire to have 100% of my attention. There's times when I have work to do, and I would love to have her out while I do it, but she attacks my hands to stop me from typing so I have to put her away. I have had a few days recently where I could convince her to play for short intervals, which was progress! A tiny step of progress! Celebrate all and any progress and just keep going.

 

[Altum]

Do you respond at all to the noise he makes, short of punishment? The reason I ask is, I wonder if he's worried because he can't see you and he just goes on making noise until he gets a response, even if it's a negative one?

When we first got him, Foggy used to scream when I went out of sight (or even into the kitchen, where he could see me but there were so many scary clanks going on); I started whistling back to him, and then HE picked up whistling, and now we just do one whistle back and forth when I leave the room and he chills out, because he knows the score.

Sometimes he gets a noisy mood and just squawks and screams for a while even when I'm sitting right there, though; when that happens I will talk back to him a quiet voice. I feel like the feeling of flock interaction helps him quiet down sooner and like he tends to match the noise level I'm creating if I do. Ignoring him or covering the cage only seemed to lead to more screaming.

(That being said, I'm not an expert, and maybe I'm handling it all wrong and am just lucky in my bird. Just my two cents.)

 

[Anansi]

...(That being said, I'm not an expert, and maybe I'm handling it all wrong and am just lucky in my bird. Just my two cents.)

Actually, you're doing quite a few things right. For one, you managed to shift your bird's flock call to a whistle, and you also used the practice of speaking softly in response to your bird's loud vocalizations. (Which encourages them to lower their voices as well.)

Both of these are well respected behavioral techniques practiced by noted avian experts. So no, I wouldn't say you're handling it all wrong at all.

 

[Gillis]

First of all, thank you everyone for your responses! I have been soaking it all in and you guys have some really great ideas.

Hello, Gillis. Part of the problem you are having resides squarely with your expectations. Notice what you said earlier in response to Tracey's timeout suggestion. You stated that timeouts haven't been effective. But how would you know? It's only been two weeks.

Fact is, timeouts and positive reinforcement can take weeks or even months to work. It all depends on the individual bird and just how much of a stubborn streak they possess...

Anansi, you have some very good points to make, and you're right, there really is no solid way of knowing that the time-outs aren't working, but I can say that since I began that method with him he has been screaming more. It's as if he gets frustrated that he doesn't understand why he's being "punished." For a time-out I will say "no" in a firm voice when he screams (only when it has gone on for some time, not on the first scream. Should I be doing it on the first scream?) and either walk away for a while or cover him with the blanket and walk away. He then gets frantic and screams more. Sometimes I don't say "no" I just walk away because I'm not sure if he is seeking that attention, even if it's just one word, but the effect is the same: more screaming.

I do understand that this is going to take time. All things take time. But I also know he's a quick learner and that he's not understanding the reason for his "punishment." I'm just not sure that time-outs are effective. Or rewarding quietness, either. When he's quiet for a while when i'm out of sight I reward him, but then when I walk away again he starts screaming as if he just realized that by me giving him a treat he wants me to stay.

I have given him toys of all the types you mentioned and he does rip at toiletpaper when he's frustrated, only once or twice, and that's as far as he's gone to touching any of it. I think that this playing thing is going to take a long time with him.

You will have good days and bad days. On the bad days, remember the good days and it will make it a lot easier to not give up. You will have a breakthrough with persistence and hard work eventually.

I'm so glad things have been working out for you and Koyoto and thank you for your words of encouragement!

Do you respond at all to the noise he makes, short of punishment? The reason I ask is, I wonder if he's worried because he can't see you and he just goes on making noise until he gets a response, even if it's a negative one?

When we first got him, Foggy used to scream when I went out of sight (or even into the kitchen, where he could see me but there were so many scary clanks going on); I started whistling back to him, and then HE picked up whistling, and now we just do one whistle back and forth when I leave the room and he chills out, because he knows the score.

Sometimes he gets a noisy mood and just squawks and screams for a while even when I'm sitting right there, though; when that happens I will talk back to him a quiet voice. I feel like the feeling of flock interaction helps him quiet down sooner and like he tends to match the noise level I'm creating if I do. Ignoring him or covering the cage only seemed to lead to more screaming.

(That being said, I'm not an expert, and maybe I'm handling it all wrong and am just lucky in my bird. Just my two cents.)

Altum, actually your advice is very good and yes I have tried that. My African Grey is also very vocal and whistles and talks all day long. I am constantly whistling and chattering back to him and Peanut both and, yes, especially when I leave eye-sight because I know that they must get nervous by themselves in the new environment. It works for Paco, he whistles back, but Peanut hasn't made any noises except quiet chattering and screaming at the top of his lungs. It also doesn't seem to matter if I am silent or not when I'm out of eye-sight, the result is the same. I have never raised my voice with my birds, only used a stern voice for reprimands and talk softly the rest of the time. I live by myself so I have no reason to speak at full volume! Peanut feels like he has reason to, however.

Along those same lines I've had the TV on or music playing sometimes when I leave eye-sight and that doesn't seem to matter, either.

 

[Taw5106]

Hi there, I'm Tracey (taw5106). Time outs WORK!!! If you feel soft or feel you can't enforce them headphones are an extreme help!!!!!

 

[Gillis]

Hi there, I'm Tracey (taw5106). Time outs WORK!!! If you feel soft or feel you can't enforce them headphones are an extreme help!!!!!

Hi Tracey, I know that time-outs work, MOST of the time. I am not soft and have no trouble enforcing time-outs. I voiced my concerns about his time-outs in my previous post. Time-outs did work to stop his biting behavior.

 

[Minimaker]

My breeder bird conure barely had a cage his eight years at the pet store, let alone toys. It's taken me forever to get him to touch anything. He just doesn't seem to understand the concept of play. He's always had this grumpy old man personality since I got him. What he does understand the concept of is chewing. Finally I got him interested in toys like this for chewing and they are perfect for him: Free Shipping Shredder Kabob Bird Toy Parts and Parrot Toys by A Bird Toy | eBay
2 Wesco Mini Bird Kabobs Parrot Bird Toy Parts Foot Munchie Chew Shred | eBay

I would try these if you haven't. It took awhile to get him into them but now that he is he hits them hard and keeps busy destroying them. The screaming is a hard one to break. He wants you, to spend time with you. You are all he has if you think about it. This is one of my photos on my phone, I keep as a reminder of that when my birds test my patience and it's very true:

 

[Anansi]

...Anansi, you have some very good points to make, and you're right, there really is no solid way of knowing that the time-outs aren't working, but I can say that since I began that method with him he has been screaming more. It's as if he gets frustrated that he doesn't understand why he's being "punished." For a time-out I will say "no" in a firm voice when he screams (only when it has gone on for some time, not on the first scream. Should I be doing it on the first scream?) and either walk away for a while or cover him with the blanket and walk away. He then gets frantic and screams more. Sometimes I don't say "no" I just walk away because I'm not sure if he is seeking that attention, even if it's just one word, but the effect is the same: more screaming.

You touch upon a VERY important aspect of training, here. Discerning whether or not your bird is being stubborn, taking the understandable amount of time necessary to make an association, or if your method of delivery needs to be tweaked to help him make said association.

I don't know if you have children, but while parrots can be very different from them in how they perceive the world and process information, there are some ways in which they can be very similar. For instance, you can have two children who are pretty much equally bright, and you begin teaching them a new math concept. For whatever reason, it clicks for one of them right away. The other one, however, just can't seem to reach that "Aha!" moment. Now, for the purposes of this scenario, let's assume it's not an issue of ability or drive. Both are equally intelligent and equally motivated to learn this new concept. So what's the problem?

One is simply processing the information differently than the other. So while you still have to make him do practice drills and such, you may have to tweak how you explain the concept to him. You try different iterations of the same problem until you happen upon the one that makes the light come on in his eyes. Know what I mean?

But that is all once you've come to the conclusion that it's not just stubbornness or him needing more time.

Same deal with a parrot. I do think that you have to work with him longer, but if you get to the point where you can conclude that he's just not making the association, you might have to shift your tactics a bit.

One suggestion I'd have in terms of what you've already said is to be more consistent with your actions. Sometimes you say no. Sometimes you cover him with a blanket. Sometimes you walk away. Too many variations of consequence. Pick your trigger (the action he takes that prompts a timeout) and then respond in the same way every time. So perhaps on first scream you can give a warning "No", delivered in an even, more acceptable tone. By the second or third (in quick succession, of course. Not if minutes pass between one and the next) you could go for the timeout. Covering with a blanket for a few minutes can be effective... IF he's not the stubborn type that will scream for an hour or more until you remove it. Because then you'd just be putting your bird in darkness for extended periods and that helps no one.

So if that's the case with him, then just put him in the cafe and walk out if the room without another word. Give it a few minutes and then go back in once he's quiet, praising him in a quiet but happy voice for being a good boy. If he stays at an acceptable volume until you reach the cage, take him out and praise him some more while showering him with treats. But if he kicks the noise back to full throttle as you reenter the room, make a show of stopping in mid-stride and tell him no. If he quiets down, again, continue walking forward. If the scream remains constant, turn around and leave again. You must be consistent enough that there is no mistaking cause and effect, here.

It'll be tough. And for a while it may seem like you're not getting anywhere. But stick to it. Making too many changes in approach and consequence will only further confuse the issue.

I do understand that this is going to take time. All things take time. But I also know he's a quick learner and that he's not understanding the reason for his "punishment." I'm just not sure that time-outs are effective. Or rewarding quietness, either. When he's quiet for a while when i'm out of sight I reward him, but then when I walk away again he starts screaming as if he just realized that by me giving him a treat he wants me to stay.

The fact that they may be quick learners may not be the point. Sometimes they're just stubborn. I remember when I was training Bixby to fly to his perch. Not for the life of me could this bird seem to get the idea that I needed him to fly away from me and to another place. Recall was pretty much 100%. But sending him flying elsewhere? Maybe 3%. If I'm being generous.

I tried different approaches, but nothing I did worked. Finally, by chance, one day both my wife and I were late getting home from work. I usually prepare enough chop for 2 days or so. Just happens last meal used up the last and we'd have to prep some. My wife decided she'd do the prep while I took him out because, in her words, "Bixby wants to eat sometime THIS YEAR." Sigh. (Yes, I can be a little slow and deliberate in my prep. Sue me!)

Anyhow, I decided to take out a cashew (one of his FAVORITES!) and work on flight training with him while we waited. He was very eager, as it was maybe an hour past his dinnertime. I called him to me and, no surprise, swoosh! There he was on my arm. Then I said "perch" and had barely managed to point toward the one I wanted him to go to when... SWOOSH! he was across the room and on the designated perch! I was dumbfounded! That little... miscreant knew exactly what I'd wanted from him. He just didn't FEEL like doing it! Being on me was just higher on his list of wants than earning a treat... unless dinner was late and he was HUNGRY!

Now, please don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating the method of withholding food as a training device. I disagree strongly with it, in fact. (Though I've now taken to doing much of my birds' training between their REGULARLY scheduled meals.) The point here is that sometimes they're just being stubborn. This scenario opened my eyes to that, and I adjusted my techniques to emphasize that flying away from me just led to even more fun time. After that night and the shift in my focus, I eventually got his rate of flying to wherever I pointed on command up to around 65%. Had my time with him not been cut tragically short, I'm sure he'd have gotten as reliable with that as with his recall.

I have given him toys of all the types you mentioned and he does rip at toiletpaper when he's frustrated, only once or twice, and that's as far as he's gone to touching any of it. I think that this playing thing is going to take a long time with him.

It probably will. But it will be so very worth it in the end.

 

[Gillis]

My breeder bird conure barely had a cage his eight years at the pet store, let alone toys. It's taken me forever to get him to touch anything. He just doesn't seem to understand the concept of play. He's always had this grumpy old man personality since I got him. What he does understand the concept of is chewing. Finally I got him interested in toys like this for chewing and they are perfect for him: Free Shipping Shredder Kabob Bird Toy Parts and Parrot Toys by A Bird Toy | eBay
2 Wesco Mini Bird Kabobs Parrot Bird Toy Parts Foot Munchie Chew Shred | eBay

I would try these if you haven't. It took awhile to get him into them but now that he is he hits them hard and keeps busy destroying them. The screaming is a hard one to break. He wants you, to spend time with you. You are all he has if you think about it. This is one of my photos on my phone, I keep as a reminder of that when my birds test my patience and it's very true:

Aww, I really love that photo and I think I'm going to keep it on my phone, too! What a great reminder.

I'm so glad at the progress you've made with your bird - I think mine is going to follow a similar path with the chewing toys. Thanks for the links, I'm definitely going to get him a kabob! He did try to play with the spaceships on my phone game today while we were spending time outside. That was good to see. He was on my lap, NOT on my shoulder or hand where he always wants to be, and his focus was on the game and trying to "eat" the little spaceships. Hooray!

 

[Gillis]

First of all, thank you SO much for taking the time to write such a detailed, well thought-out reply. I appreciate it.

You touch upon a VERY important aspect of training, here. Discerning whether or not your bird is being stubborn, taking the understandable amount of time necessary to make an association, or if your method of delivery needs to be tweaked to help him make said association.

One is simply processing the information differently than the other. So while you still have to make him do practice drills and such, you may have to tweak how you explain the concept to him. You try different iterations of the same problem until you happen upon the one that makes the light come on in his eyes. Know what I mean?

One suggestion I'd have in terms of what you've already said is to be more consistent with your actions. Sometimes you say no. Sometimes you cover him with a blanket. Sometimes you walk away. Too many variations of consequence... ...You must be consistent enough that there is no mistaking cause and effect, here.

Yes! I don't have kids but I used to tutor regularly, so I definitely know what you mean. I guess I was taking the approach that since I thought he wasn't understanding, I was trying a few different ways of "explaining" it to him.

But I see now that the variation might be causing more confusion and that I need to be more consistent. I did move his cage back down into the spare room several days ago and he does seem more calm and there is more time between his screaming now. From down there he can't see if I am in the vicinity and not spending my time with him (washing dishes etc); he has to wait until I decide it's time for us to be together.

Also, from down there it's difficult for me to reprimand him in any way because my response is going to be delayed from being in another part of the house. So I think I'm going to go with the method of ignoring his screaming and rewarding his quietness. No reprimands since it doesn't seem practical with his location, but treats (he LOVES pine nuts) and time with me when he is being quiet.

Does that sound ok?

Now, please don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating the method of withholding food as a training device. I disagree strongly with it, in fact. (Though I've now taken to doing much of my birds' training between their REGULARLY scheduled meals.) The point here is that sometimes they're just being stubborn.

That's a pretty funny story with Bixby! What a little stubborn turd that he knew all along and just didn't feel like doing it. I'm so sorry that your time with him was cut short, but it sounds like he had a wonderful life with you.

I guess time will tell how stubborn Peanut is, once i'm convinced he understands that he's not supposed to scream. Then it will be up to him and whether or not he feels like cooperating!

I did take him to PetSmart yesterday for the first time. We got a clicker and I have begun associating it with him so we can do some basic training. He was extremely well-behaved in the store and I can't wait to see how our training will progress. I think he would be much happier as a flighted bird so I think someday down the road we will be following in your's and Bixby's training footsteps!

So, thanks again for the great reply. I'm going to try the method I mentioned (unless you have a suggestion) and go from there!

 

[Anansi]

You're welcome. Just glad I could help.

And thank you for your kind words about Bixby. The time he had with us, while short, was indeed wonderful.

Your strategy for Peanut sounds quite solid to me. Please keep us updated on your progress with him, as I'm very interested in hearing how you both make out.

I think you're going to do just fine with him, for what it's worth.

 

[dhraiden]

If mochi can hear us in another room, she'll scream/cry for us. I leave the TV on, or when she's on the roof, the outside noises seem to occupy her just fine. If she's able to sight us, she gets really agitated when she can't get out (unless she's eating, or has just been out for an extended period). (AFAIK Mochi was born around Feb of this year. Still young, still learning.)

 

[TwoBoids]

Since this is a post from 2015, I’m wondering what the status is before I give advice. I have GCC also and I understand how they can be. They seem to go through many different phases, where other birds are more consistent with their behaviors.

 

[PickleMeDickles]

Sounds like your bird is developing a nice strong bond with you! Each bird is an individual, and like some children, some birds are more prone to acting out, tantrums, etc. This guy has only been in your care two weeks, so although it seems a bond is developing, everytime you leave his sight he is behaving just how nature intended him to behave, stay alive and socially connected by knowing where all your besties are at all times, even when just out of direct sight. My SassyByrd goes through stages when she is much more dependent on me and initiates contact calls frequently. I try to respond in a cheerful calm manner with a, "right here", or "alls okay" or the like. When it happens ALL DAY I make a very soft "BOT" sound in a low voice, this is my "return call". Now her contact call is either "MAWWW" or "BAAHHHT", which are much more reasonable than the she devil banshee wailing that was occurring before. Also, when she is going through "a stage", I just try to have her by my side as much as possible as well, not by my side per se, but near me more than normal. It probably took us a good 6 months to get really comfortable with "believing" I was "really there" when I returned called to her.