The Dog I Was Thinking of Giving Back

[FeathersandDrums]

I decided to keep Rio and continue trying to train her. I thought I would post an update. She is still holding her pee/poop until she gets a chance to go inside. I put a puppy pad in every room for accidents but still take her on hour long walks. She still doesn't potty on the walks but did once on the sidewalk I think I mentioned that before..

She will pee on the puppy pad but not poo. She either poops on either side of it or somewhere else completely and I am realizing that she must walk when she poops or something because it is always VERY spread out. I know she can control it because she has NEVER gone in her crate.

I was pretty set on training her and keeping her, especially when the barking in the crate improved. I only put her in her crate at night or if I have to leave (rarely) and she was being quiet in her crate. If she did start to bark, mostly in the mornings she still would, I could to her to "hush" and she would stop. That was one of the main problems that I didn't think I could deal with. The past few nights it has flared back up. She still barks when she is outside so theres no point in letting her out unless I go walk her (which has been at least twice a day lately). And in her crate has been the same the past few days-back to constant barking. When she heard the birds there is NO stopping her barking.

As far as the dog with the birds go, I am hesitant to tell this story, it is sad but was the main reason I ant to post. After Rio knocked one of the cages off of the table I became very cautious with the birds and put a dog exercise pen up next to the hallway as a giant "baby gate" so that Rio couldn't go in that part of the house. It just blocks off the bird room and my 9 month daughters room so it worked out well because I didn't want Rio going into either. I also keep the birds room door closed because half of them can aren't clipped.

One day Owl flew out when I was opening the door to go in. Luckily he landed within the area that the gate was around so I picked him up and put him back in the bird room. Rio was freaking out after seeing him. She is out of control around the birds and all the words she knows go out the window.

She managed to push between the gate and the wall and while I was coming back out of the bird room she pushed past me. I was sqeezing through a very partially opened door already to keep another of my birds from trying to fly out and I didn't know Rio had gotten through the gate yet. Owl is my most skittish budgie and started flying everywhere when he saw Rio. He landed on the floor and she grabbed him and ran under the computer desk where all i could do to get her out was put my arm under and drag her out. It all happened extremely extremely fast within just a few seconds. I put Rio in her crate and pick up Owl. He seemed unharmed but terrified and I held him and he layed down in my hand and died. </3

After he passed away I saw on his belly that there was one single very deep punture wound. No blood or anything. I loved Owl very much. He was the little clown of the group and I am heartbroken.

I have since taken extra precautions to keep the dog out of the bird room. I have added and baby gate to the door that I always step over instead of using like a door. I put Rio outside when the birds are out for free time. Even if they're just in that one room with the door closed. But Rio barks the entire time she is out there and I am once again having a very hard time wanting to keep her. I feel like she is a threat to my birds and I feel like she takes all my time for herself with her demanding barks as hard as I try to ignore them when it is my time with the birds.

 

[Echo]

I'm sooo sorry about Owl . There is always a risk of this happening when you have predators in the house (cats, dogs, ferrets, rodents etc.), it is their instinct.
I chose my 2 dogs because of their breeds, the Mini Aussie, herding dog, as opposed to a Terrier/hunting dog. Even then, I need to be careful as even them stepping on birds can be fatal. However, some dogs will be relentless at trying to get a the birds. In that case, I would definitively find the dog another home....

 

[MikeyTN]

Since your dog have killed once, she will do it again. Hard habit to break! So now you must have the birds locked in their cage when your not around to supervise even in their bird room, keep her in a different room when you go in and out, accidents happen. The choice is up to you or give her back.

 

[FeathersandDrums]

I'm thinking I might have to. The main time I get to spend with my birds is when my daughter is napping and if I put the dog in another room she is going to howl and scratch the walls and wake my baby up. At my aunts house she dug a hole through the wall!

 

[MikeyTN]

Then she must be kenneled when you have birds out! My dogs kills as well so they're in the kennel or outside when birds are out. Except the macaws as they don't mess with them.

 

[FeathersandDrums]

I would just keep her and kennel her which I often do. I might keep doing that.
I prefer birds but my husband prefers the dog and gets upset when I crate her to play with the birds
I do it anyway but mostly use the time when he is at work. The dog still moans and howls in her crate too though. I've had to move it to the garage where I can still hear her and we live in a duplex. But Mikey if you can keep dogs that kill and keep your birds safe then I have hope.

 

[FeathersandDrums]

The guilt I feel for Owl's death is overwhelming though.

 

[Kalidasa]

Mikey's right, the dog got a chance to chew on a live bird, it's not going to give up trying to get at them again. Hopefully you can figure something out where everyone is safe and still find a way to make the attention time fair to each creature. Sorry about your bird

 

[crimson]

sorry to hear about your budgie, that must have been awful.
the reason your dog does not go to the bathroom in the crate is cause it sleeps there, kind of like you would not pee in your bed sort of thing.
have you considered a dog trainer?, I know they can be expensive, but if you find a certified and good dog trainer, it might help.

Can you move your birds behind closed doors? all of my birds (46 of them) are all behind closed doors, and I also own 2 dogs, and 4 cats, with NO issues.

 

[Echo]

I would just keep her and kennel her which I often do. I might keep doing that.
I prefer birds but my husband prefers the dog and gets upset when I crate her to play with the birds
I do it anyway but mostly use the time when he is at work. The dog still moans and howls in her crate too though. I've had to move it to the garage where I can still hear her and we live in a duplex. But Mikey if you can keep dogs that kill and keep your birds safe then I have hope.

Yes you can crate her, but is it really fair for that dog? By herself in a garage?Wouldn't she be happier in a home where she can run around and get a lot of exercise so that she's not compelled to put a hole through the wall? Really look at the breed and its requirement to be happy and then really look at the life she has now. Does it match? Is it the type of dog who thrives while herding, hunting, agility, search and rescue etc.? What's BEST for the dog? What's BEST for the birds? What's BEST for you and your family? You may want to ask yourself, and your husband, these questions.....

 

[MikeyTN]

It's a yorkie! I doubt she'll be herding, hunting, and such. Crate them is only for brief period while the birds are out and about. Like us, we spend majority of our time with the dogs and while they're crate or outside is when I have my smaller birds out. The kitties goes into the bed room with the door shut. Then when the dogs are out and about is when I have the macaws out. So I have everyone scheduled to do certain things. I love my dogs and not about to give them up just because they kill but I also will prevent stuffs like that from happening to have a happy household.

Plus she sounds pretty good to me walking her dog trying to potty train her and all. To me she sound like a good parent!

 

[Echo]

It's a yorkie! I doubt she'll be herding, hunting, and such. Crate them is only for brief period while the birds are out and about. Like us, we spend majority of our time with the dogs and while they're crate or outside is when I have my smaller birds out. The kitties goes into the bed room with the door shut. Then when the dogs are out and about is when I have the macaws out. So I have everyone scheduled to do certain things. I love my dogs and not about to give them up just because they kill but I also will prevent stuffs like that from happening to have a happy household.

Plus she sounds pretty good to me walking her dog trying to potty train her and all. To me she sound like a good parent!

Sorry didn't realize it was a Yorkie, so herding is out then, geez!! I was generalizing. Terriers are the worst around birds in my opinion (excellent hunters)and the size doesn't matter.
Yes she is a good owner, I didn't imply she wasn't. I have 2 dogs, albeit no hunters, and it works for us.

The fact that it works for my household and yours Mikey, doesn't mean that it works for everyone. Feather alone has to make that decision.

 

[FeathersandDrums]

The dog is out and about the house most of the time and we go on 2 hour long walks a day. I only crate her while my birds are out of the bird room which isn't a daily thing and then I crate her at night while we are sleeping from about 11 pm (at the earliest) until 7 or 8 am. I really don't know what else to do for her.. she is allowed to roam in the yard in addition to her walks but doesn't want to get in the grass. We also play fetch during the day and she has a lot of toys. She is a yorkie.

 

[FeathersandDrums]

The birds are let out of their cages daily, but not always out of the bird room each day. And thank you Mikey! I can tell you are a good parent too I didn't notice the third page of comments until now!

 

[Echo]

The dog is out and about the house most of the time and we go on 2 hour long walks a day. I only crate her while my birds are out of the bird room which isn't a daily thing and then I crate her at night while we are sleeping from about 11 pm (at the earliest) until 7 or 8 am. I really don't know what else to do for her.. she is allowed to roam in the yard in addition to her walks but doesn't want to get in the grass. We also play fetch during the day and she has a lot of toys. She is a yorkie.

Seems like you're doing all you can with the Yorkie.

 

[FeathersandDrums]

I guess I just don't know what to base my decision on. I don't want to get rid of her for acting on her instincts but then again I was already considering it. And she is great with my daughter and my husband loves her. I don't doubt that I can keep her out of the bird room but the whole idea of it makes me anxious and her barking drives me crazy. Plus I would like for the birds to have as much freedom as possible. But also I have yet to find out if the birds will be allowed to move with me to the Naval base. That isn't for a long time..at least 6 months and I am 99% sure they can come but I don't want to give Rio away and then be forced to give up my birds too! And I don't want to make a selfish decision either. Is it really best for the birds if I give up the dog or does it only make my life easier? They are all small birds, they don't really NEED the whole house. If I could train the dog to stop the barking it would change a lot but I have gone through a lot to try and train her and we HAVE seen a trainer as well. The trainer suggested that she wasn't the best dog for us but the trainers methods were very disagreeable so I don't entirely trust that opinion.

I am so terrible with decisions. My husband doesn't enjoy spending time with my birds but lets me have as many as I want..and was so relieved when I told him we could keep trying to train Rio and try to keep her. But I will be the one here with her when he is on duty cleaning her poops off the floor (that my daughter crawls on!) and dealing with her demanding attitude.

But I enjoy the company of a dog, and when she gets her way and the birds are out of sight she is such a sweet girl.

 

[faeryphoebe1]

Oh, Feathers, I'm so sorry about Owl. (((hugs)))

You CAN do it with a yorkie. I have a 6 yr old female yorkie named Phoebe. Even though she's more of a couch potato, lap dog now that she's no longer a puppy.

I crate her when the birds are out. She howls and scratches the crate door sometimes. If it gets too loud, we put the crate in my daughter's room, turn off the light and let her take a nap there. If we leave her loose in my daughter's room with the door closed, she shreds up the door with her claws, so we have to use her crate/carrier.

We do the crate up thing twice a day (2-3 hours each time) most days. If I'm not feeling well (fibromyalgia), then it's once a day. Once in a while, Phoebe will stay with my son and his cat in his room while the birds are out. We have to be SUPER, SUPER careful though, that he doesn't open the door because she will run out. It scares me though, so we mostly crate her because she's too fast and dangerous (all 5 pounds of terror that she is, lol).

You can do it. If your dog was a 200 lb Mastiff, then I'd have my doubts, but you can definitely do this with a yorkie and birds.

 

[SoCalWendy]

Being a dog trainer (retired), this is right up my ally so this response might be long. I would recommend finding a group training class. Once you have some basic training down then you can move to desensitizing her to your birds. But you must establish yourself as a pack leader, otherwise Rio will not respect you. It doesn't matter if it's a lil dog or a big dog, a dog is a dog.

This might sound harsh to some, but if Rio were my dog I would start by controlling everything in her world. You can accomplish this by what you have already started to do, crate training her. By crate training her, 1. You are satisfying her den dwelling instinct. She may put up a fight, but that's because she wants to be in control. 2. You are establishing yourself as a pack leader by controlling when she goes in and comes out. Eighty-six the puppy pads, they are worthless and you are sending her mixed signels on where she is to go potty. 3. By crate training her you are in control of her food intake (feed her inside her crate) and when she eliminates. I dont know how old she is but, normally dogs need to eliminate about an hr after eating. So immediately take her out, let her do her thing and then put her back and give her a treat. Never ever give in to her temper tantrums, and never make it a big deal when you are letting her out of her crate. Eventually you want her crate to be a place of peace for both you and her. Always establish a word like "go kennel, or go crate" Everytime she is put back.

Now if you take her to a class, you will need to work with her for no less then 20-30 min 2 x a day. So you go to your class and then for that week you will work on what you learned. I do not care for Petco or Petsmart classes. Find a dog club in your area, and they can help you to find a reputable and good trainer.

When I had my group classes all the student and thier dogs learned the "leave it" command. It doesn't matter what it is that you want to teach her to leave alone, teaching the leave it command works for everything. It works as like a trigger in the brain to stop the forward action that she might be thinking about, in your case your bird. You can tell when a dog is thinking about something and is about to execute an action, it's at that moment when they are thinking about it is when this command to "leave it" works. Of course you would have her on a leash and correct her when she does not obey. But you will establish how to do a proper correction when you take a basic obedience class. I do not believe in harnesses for dogs unless they we doing a job like pulling a cart. A 6' Cotton leash, and a correctly fitted choke chain or pinch collar will suffice. This of course depens on the Rio's tolerance to pain. A lower threshold to pain, you would not need a pinch collar. You can find out what Rio's tollerance is by pinching between her toes. You'll know.

I hope that it will work out for your dog. You can PM me privately if you have any questions. I know what I just described is pretty black and white, and I don't mean to sound insensivitve. I hope that it works out for you. Here is a website, that might help you. The trainer is Reah, she and I worked under the same trainer Robert E. McAdam (Dog Walk Training and Security) since his death she has taken the name Dog Walk, she is an excellent trainer. I learned everything I know from him. Dog walk training: Index

 

[kc_y0]

I am so very sorry to hear of your loss. Losing a bird is just horrible. Don't blame yourself, accidents happen. At first I blamed myself for the loss of my budgie recently, as we had an accident here too, but over time I've learned to accept that it was no ones fault and it was just a tragic accident, the exact same in your case. Please don't blame yourself, you are already feeling enough pain.

 

[crimson]

Being a dog trainer (retired), this is right up my ally so this response might be long. I would recommend finding a group training class. Once you have some basic training down then you can move to desensitizing her to your birds. But you must establish yourself as a pack leader, otherwise Rio will not respect you. It doesn't matter if it's a lil dog or a big dog, a dog is a dog.

This might sound harsh to some, but if Rio were my dog I would start by controlling everything in her world. You can accomplish this by what you have already started to do, crate training her. By crate training her, 1. You are satisfying her den dwelling instinct. She may put up a fight, but that's because she wants to be in control. 2. You are establishing yourself as a pack leader by controlling when she goes in and comes out. Eighty-six the puppy pads, they are worthless and you are sending her mixed signels on where she is to go potty. 3. By crate training her you are in control of her food intake (feed her inside her crate) and when she eliminates. I dont know how old she is but, normally dogs need to eliminate about an hr after eating. So immediately take her out, let her do her thing and then put her back and give her a treat. Never ever give in to her temper tantrums, and never make it a big deal when you are letting her out of her crate. Eventually you want her crate to be a place of peace for both you and her. Always establish a word like "go kennel, or go crate" Everytime she is put back.

Now if you take her to a class, you will need to work with her for no less then 20-30 min 2 x a day. So you go to your class and then for that week you will work on what you learned. I do not care for Petco or Petsmart classes. Find a dog club in your area, and they can help you to find a reputable and good trainer.

When I had my group classes all the student and thier dogs learned the "leave it" command. It doesn't matter what it is that you want to teach her to leave alone, teaching the leave it command works for everything. It works as like a trigger in the brain to stop the forward action that she might be thinking about, in your case your bird. You can tell when a dog is thinking about something and is about to execute an action, it's at that moment when they are thinking about it is when this command to "leave it" works. Of course you would have her on a leash and correct her when she does not obey. But you will establish how to do a proper correction when you take a basic obedience class. I do not believe in harnesses for dogs unless they we doing a job like pulling a cart. A 6' Cotton leash, and a correctly fitted choke chain or pinch collar will suffice. This of course depens on the Rio's tolerance to pain. A lower threshold to pain, you would not need a pinch collar. You can find out what Rio's tollerance is by pinching between her toes. You'll know.

I hope that it will work out for your dog. You can PM me privately if you have any questions. I know what I just described is pretty black and white, and I don't mean to sound insensivitve. I hope that it works out for you. Here is a website, that might help you. The trainer is Reah, she and I worked under the same trainer Robert E. McAdam (Dog Walk Training and Security) since his death she has taken the name Dog Walk, she is an excellent trainer. I learned everything I know from him. Dog walk training: Index

good advice!, that is what I did with my dogs, and I have to admit with time, persistence and patience, they are pretty good around my caged birds.
my German Shepherd is excellent when near them, my dachshund/jack russell is still driven by their movements, and whines when he is near them, but I have worked on just sitting in the room with him, he's beside me and within 5 minutes the whining stops. I tell them when to enter and when to leave.
none of their choices are made by them. It's genetic in a dog to follow pack leader, but it's also a daily process which can be tiring at times too