Territorial Budgie wants cage to himself

[amydiddle]

Hi, I’ve had my blue budgie for almost 6 years. He had a cage mate until last year when he passed in the night. Until recently, he has been alone and actually kind of happier without a cage mate. He has a large cage more suited for 3-4 budgies to himself.

A few days ago I got a lovely yellow budgie and have housed him in the travel cage and will only let them interact in the big cage when I’m around. So far my blue boy has been chittering, screaming, and pecking rather roughly at the newest. He won’t let him near the food and refuses to share a perch. I thought it was a pecking order thing but I’m sad for my newest who genuinely seems to want to be friend with my blue boy.

I have recently ordered a larger cage for my newest to live in if things do not work out so my newest will not have to live in a smaller, travel cage.
I’m wondering if I should go and get another to live with him in the cage with him so he doesn’t feel lonely. I’m worried about his happiness. It hurts to see how much he is trying to bond with my older one and getting rebuffed.

What should I do?

 

[noodles123]

So there is a lot to think about here...Welcome, by the way.
Do you still have the body of the cage-mate? If so, rinse it in cool water (you can also skip this step...but many places say to rinse). Put him in a bag in the fridge and get him to an avian vet if at all possible for a necroscopy.


I know that is hard to hear, but before you do anything, you need to figure out what happened to your other bird. It could be a disease or something in your home. They can spread illness without ever getting sick themselves (carriers w/ asymptomatic infection). Those same infections can kill other birds, so just make sure you try and get to the bottom of it.


Do you use teflon/ptfe/pfoa/non-stick cookware or any other chemicals in your home? They have very sensitive respiratory systems and can get very sick from things like air freshener, candles, scented oils, standard cleaners etc. Teflon/ptfe/pfoa/non-stick cookware should not even be used in the same house with them because it releases odorless gasses when heated and those gasses have killed birds through closed doors and on separate floors. Just because one passed and the other survived and seems fine does not mean that you can rule out disease or environmental factors ( 2 birds can be exposed to the same thing and one will sometimes survive, even if the other does not).



You can never know if 2 birds will get along, even if they are the same species, BUT if you get another bird, you need to first figure out what went wrong, as the cage and your home could be infectious to future birds. For 45 days, your new bird shouldn't even be in the same room with your bird...and you should be washing hands like crazy between touching (even changing shirts between handling etc-- especially because you don't know if your original bird is a carrier of disease, but also because the new bird could bring new stuff in.

 

[Laurasea]

Welcome!
Quarantine is definitely the way to go!!
Otherwise it takes time, imho most 99% of budgie are going to be able to get along. Huge flock instinct in budgie.
Adequate size cage very important, provide pictures or size measurements. Introduction in neutral space, give it time. Lots if perches and food and water spots.
Yes can be exceptions....but most are going to get along.

 

[noodles123]

Here is a link to I response I wrote to another poster. It's full of medical/health info that is often ignored at the pet store--- see my reply to this poster in the following link: http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/88384-new-bird-owner.html
I hope you will read through my reply in the post above (if you already know it all, then sorry for wasting your time, but if not,it could be very valuable for the health of your birds).



Another thing that is mentioned in that link but that I will mention again for emphasis, is that they should not have access to huts, tents, teepees, boxes, cubbies, or shadowy spaces that they can hang out in or put their head in). Those snuggle huts they sell are bad news and they encourage hormones which alter moods and can increase territorial behavior.

Similarly, avoid mirrors and make sure that you have some wooden types of toys in there. Stainless steel is pretty much the only safe metal, so do be cautious when purchasing toys. If your bird is timid, do not just shove a new toy into the cage or you will scare him. You want to give them time to adjust to seeing a new thing and you modeling play with it before you just put it in their house.

You have had this bird for a very very short amount of time. 6 days is like 5 seconds to a parrot. You haven't even gotten past the adjustment period in a new home.

Where did you get this parakeet?
How is his sleep schedule/how many hours nightly?
What are your cage dimensions?
What does your bird eat daily?


Here's a thread that talks a lot about behavior, so I am posting it as well - http://www.parrotforums.com/conures/88156-i-need-advice.html


Do you know how old your current budgie is and how old the yellow one is? Do you know the sex?

 

[amydiddle]

Thanks for the advice, but sadly the bird passed away while I was out of town and my mother buried him that same day. What I deduced from it was that this same survivor bird was not the nicest cage mate. He would hoard the food, peck him off perches. I didn’t have the resources to separate them and I’m afraid to blame the survivor.

It’s why I am concerned and waited to get a new bird

 

[noodles123]

It's always a risk-- did your mom notice anything abnormal, like blood or bare patches?
Did anything odd happen that night? Like, burning food or using a new appliance...cooking something for long periods (anything out of the ordinary?)

I know moms like to clean sometimes---did she clean a lot that day while you were gone?


Still would take a look at the link I posted for that first thread to sort of assess some of the possibilities. I'm NOT saying your mom did anything wrong (it's just hard to know what happened without considering all of the options).


If you are not using non-stick/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs in the house, then the following questions could also help provide a bit more insight:
Where did you get this parakeet?
How is his sleep schedule/how many hours nightly?
What are your cage dimensions?
What does your bird eat daily?
Does he have access to shadowy spaces?
Did you have 2 food and water dishes for your birds (4 total)?

 

[amydiddle]

I got my new one at Petsmart. The larger cage is 25x18x30. They are sleeping around 8-9 hours a night. Regular food is zupreem natural pellets with a mix of seeds, and dried papaya. They have foraging toys with millet and other treats put into them every so often to stimulate their diet and natural foraging instincts.

I do not get any possible nesting areas as I am not interested in breeding. I understand that it has been a short time and I acknowledge as well my anxiety is probably making the natural interactions of new birds together being unhappiness.

 

[amydiddle]

The only things she noticed was it looked like he feel off the perch. There wasn’t anything odd besides that. I can honestly say that there wasn’t much cleaning in the house that would cause a lot of fumes. Nor burning food. My mother’s job at the time was night shift and meals usually were dine out.

I will look into the link.

 

[noodles123]

I am not sure that cage is big enough for 2, but I could be wrong- if you have a link to the brand or a picture, that might help some. Even though they are small birds, they need more space than people think for flying and when you consider the toys etc.

Do you know what the cage is made of?


I want to emphasize that your should avoid cleaning with standard cleaners if you have a bird. F10 SC is a good alternative and there are also other avian-safe cleaners online.
They need 10 hours of sleep per night, and 8 could make them more prone to aggression/hormones etc.

 

[amydiddle]

It is actually larger then recommended that I have found through my research. It is a wire cage, nontoxic paint. And even if it wasn’t I have a larger stainless steel one coming soon that is set to hold four budgies.

I thank you for the worry and the recommended cleaning products. Though I am unsure how this helps me with the territorial problem. I’m going to just try and separate and monitor them, and if they can’t cohabitate I have a good back up for them to be separate.

 

[noodles123]

It is actually larger then recommended that I have found through my research. It is a wire cage, nontoxic paint. And even if it wasn’t I have a larger stainless steel one coming soon that is set to hold four budgies.

I thank you for the worry and the recommended cleaning products. Though I am unsure how this helps me with the territorial problem. I’m going to just try and separate and monitor them, and if they can’t cohabitate I have a good back up for them to be separate.

Sorry for veering off-track---- You can't be sure that 2 birds will ever get along and there is really no way to make them if they do not. You can try gradual introductions etc, but it is going to be more complicated than that in the long-run. Their ages, sexes, cage size, food, sleep etc all connects to this issue as well. Smart to have 2 cages in case they do not (and I see you planned accordingly, so nice job in terms of thinking about what COULD happen).
18" x 18" x 24 is the VERY VERY bare minimum for a single budgie, and a bare minimum is too small. That is why I mentioned this- you are talking 2 in a space not much larger than what is suggested for a bare minimum of 1. That could cause increasingly aggressive behavior, as could hormones and lack of separate feeding/drinking spaces.


I asked about cage material due to metal poisoning possibilities-- that was my reasoning.

 

[fiddlejen]

So it sounds like your 1st budgie is un-usually un-sociable (for a budgie). In General, Most budgies prefer to live in groups. Even if they cannot live IN the same cage together, cages next to each other will be good. IF they really cannot live in together, then I would recommend get aNother budgie, for your 2nd budgie, who sounds like a normally-sociable budgie who really will be happier with a buddy.

Back to your cages. You mention refusal to share perch. I would love to see a photo of your setup(s). My Two budgies have, at minimum, TWO of everything. A reasonably large cage should have not just two but Lots of perches.

Budgies are little brats. They need other budgies to bother, but they will fight over things like perches and food. One budgie, by eating food, will identify it as "safe," so the second budgie will come to eat THAT food. In my case, first budgie, Jefferson, will then go to the other, identical food dish. AFter short while, second budgie (Calliope), will notice that Jefferson found a new source of food, and will come take over that food dish. And so on!! AT least they get their exercise that way.

When I clip veggies inside their cage, I put two of evertyhing - two lettuce leaves, two little broccoli trees, etc. Must be Close enough to know they are Same, and far enough they cannot Eat AND Defend the item. (Jefferson used to Love to Stand atop One broccoli-tree, and reach over to Eat from the Other. Thus causing fight when Calliope would try to take Any!)

It is necessary to ensure they have plenty of spaces to retreat, various perches and platforms etc., so that when one wants to take the exact spot where another is sitting, they can retreat. Instead of fighting seriously!

It will not be surprising if it takes your First Budgie quite a long time before accepting the new budgie. So again, personally, I would Recommend getting a Budgie-Companion for New-Budgie.

(And, when the NEW cage comes, hang on to your current second cage. It will come in handy if you need to occasionally separate new-budgies when they squabble.)

 

[Littleredbeak]

What you can try to do is put two cages together. I connected two flight cages by the side doors and had food and water in each cage. Plenty of room to be able to get away if need be. I got my 2 flight cages off of Chewy - they were a little less than a 100 each.


You can also try putting multiple food and water stations around the cage and when your older budgie shows aggression but you hand in there with a shooing motion-.

 

[JohnH]

Hope its ok to post this link.

I know someone with this cage. It has a removable divider. Came in handy when one of her budgies was ill.

https://www.amazon.com/Double-Flight-Wrought-Divider-Cockatiel/dp/B0193Z5QZG

 

[Saash]

Hello

Of everything I've read up about parrots, they can be territorial of the cage in general (not just to a new bird).

When introducing even a toy, its best to start by including it outside the cage, and allow some time for the bird to get used to its presence, let it see you interacting, let the budgie see this newcomer is 'safe'.

This will also allow some time for quarantine, which has already been advised.

Once the budgie is seen as safe and acceptable, then start introducing in a neutral space for interacting. When interaction is going well, then try put them in the cage together.