Terrible 2's are here

[LoveMyConlan]

Rhage, my B&G, turned 2 in October. But this issue has been going on for a while, it's just getting worse.

Rhage has always been iffy with the Step Up thing but woulds step up about 90% of the time. And I have yet to find his favorite thing for motivation.

Usually after a few moments of asking him to step up he will. But lately, and for no apparent reason, he has pretty much stopped stepping up when he is in or on his cage without it taking me a while to get him out.

He is yelling at me and grabbing me, gently but still not in a playful way, when I ask him to step up. He has just been awfully touchy lately. Tonight I asked him of he wanted to come out and he argued with me with Step Up for 5 minutes, and then when I moved my arm to push on his chest he screamed at me like I plucked a feather amd grabbed my hand. Then I backed off and tried again and it took him a few minutes to step up. Then other than being touchy, he had a blast taking a shower and dancing on his java stand.

Normally, I ask him if he wants to come out for playtime and he refuses, but once I can actually get him out he just wants to relax and play.

But he has developed this dislike and yelling for hands(about 50% of the time). He not agressive, but he is nippy, and not having it. Sometimes he is fine and just wants a scratch and to play and growl at me...he LOVES to talk with me and dance.

Im not sure if this is hormonal or behavioral? How can I help him through this?

I feel bad because this new behavior is limiting his outside time because he becomes a pest to get out and into the cage. So he does have a ton of enrichment toys to keep him busy.

He used to be a total teddy bear and lived for a good snuggle. Now he nips and is more picky about when he wants to be touched.

I want to help us both get over this. Im just not sure how. I don't want to seem like i'm disrespecting his space and feelings, but I don't want him to think he's the boss.

He's never had a bad experience with hands that I could tell and up until recently, and I will admit ive been a bit impatient with him, he's never been this pushy and agitated.

 

[chris-md]

Really I think you just need to do more formal step up training. You’re 50/50 at best, but it’s a good place to start. But 50/50 is nothing more than random chance. Stack the odds.

Every interaction needs to be a training session. Reinforce the behavior you want to see.

I really have to sympathize with you, because my ekkie for some unknown reason has been backsliding on his step up. It’s become much less reliable lately. He’s about to go back to boot camp himself.

 

[PenClem]

He's never had a bad experience with hands that I could tell and up until recently, and I will admit ive been a bit impatient with him, he's never been this pushy and agitated.

One of my birds (a 3 y/o Peach-faced Lovebird) has begun to act similar about being handled, especially when it comes to stepping up to come out or go in her cage. She has been with me since she was 7 w/o and has never had a bad experience with hands. I'm the only one who handles her.

It is incredibly frustrating when we become aware that somewhere along the road, a miscommunication has created fear or distrust in our own birds, but we are unable to pinpoint the root cause of the issue. I wound up searching for a parrot behaviorist to consult regarding this particular behavior. It's the only thing saving any shred of patience I have left. Our first appointment is tomorrow evening via Skype.

You may consider going that route. It may provide some insight into his behavior and a game plan for resetting his brain concerning hands/being handled.

 

[bill_e]

If you haven't tried them, try some pine nuts for a motivation reward. And I agree about more training, be it target or just rewarding the behavior.

 

[EllenD]

Does this only happen when he's inside of his cage and you ask him to step-up or come out? Does he willingly step-up for you outside of his cage? (You didn't mention any problem getting him around the house or back into his cage)...

***If the answer to that question is yes, or even yes 90% or more of the time, then it's most-likely a territorial issue about his cage...Remember that his cage is his "safe space", that's the only thing in that house that is all his and that no one else ever goes into, and some birds are just way more territorial/protective of their cages than others...Some species of parrots are pretty-much ALWAYS territorial over their cages, such as Quakers, which I can personally attest to, but it's also dependent on individual birds as well...And if Rhage is perfectly happy, friendly, gentle, and having fun once he's out of his cage and is only acting this way when you go to take him out of his cage (or rather when you put your hands/arm inside of his cage, that's probably the best way to think about this), then he's upset that you're invading his territory/safe-space...

***It's not so-much the "step-up" that is the issue, and it sounds like you've been approaching the problem with that thought-process, that his issue is that "He just doesn't want to step-up"...But if he's readily stepping-up when outside of his cage with no argument, then you have to think that it has nothing at all to do with him not wanting to "step-up", nor does it have to do with him not wanting to come out of his cage, which it also seems you've been thinking...as you said, "he has a great time once he's out of his cage"...So if you stop thinking of this issue in-terms of him not wanting to step-up and not wanting to come out of his cage, but rather he just doesn't want anyone's hands/arms inside of his cage, then you're going to be able to figure this out a lot more quickly and find a solution. Worth a try.

Basically you need to simply respect his territory and his "safe space" as being his and only his, and find another way to get him out of his cage. The best way that I've found with my female Quaker Parrot, who is now 3 years old and has been acting the exact same way from the age of 13 weeks old about her own cage, is to simply open-up the cage door and ask them "Do you want to come out and play?", or whatever you're wanting him to come out to do (they understand the differences between "play" and "shower" or "cuddle" or "eat", etc., so if you ask him if he wants to "come out" and do something he'll know what you're asking). At first when I started simply opening up Lita's cage door and waited for her to come out on her own, it took a while and it was important that I be patient. I would open her door up and say "Come on Lita, do you want to come out?", then I'd simply wait there for her to come out on her own, which would ALWAYS happen, but in her own time...However, once she figured out what I was asking her to do, she started doing it immediately (which probably took a couple of weeks for it to happen automatically). At first I think that she didn't know what to do when the door opened, like it was a trick or something...What helped tremendously was obviously Positive-Reinforcement with her favorite treat, which is a piece of granola...Doesn't have to be Rhage's "favorite" treat if you don't know what that is yet, but surely there is something you can reward him with as soon as he comes out of his cage on his own, plus lots of verbal praise.

So the key here is just to keep your hands/arms, well, basically YOU staying out of Rhage's cage and showing him that you respect his territory...Once he comes out of his cage on his own, which again may take a while and you'll have to be patient, then immediately start verbally praising him and offer him a treat that he likes in your open, out-stretched palm...This is important because his territoriality may also extend to the outside of his cage as well. So if he comes out of his cage but is sitting on the cage door, or climbs to the top, he may still be territorial...

 

[EllenD]

***In addition, you need to figure out at what point AFTER you open up his cage door and he comes out of his cage on his own, is it okay to ask him to "step-up" and that he'll willingly do it.

You said that his cage has a play-top...So maybe you need to see where Rhage's "safe-zone" is, meaning you open his door up and ask him to come out to do whatever it is you're going to do, wait patiently, let him come out on his own, and if he is usually willing to step-up for you when he's on top of his cage, then you need to train him that ANYTIME he comes out of his cage, better yet any time that his cage-door opens, it means that he should come out of his cage and go right to the top of his cage, and then reward him and verbally praise him once he gets to the top of his cage...Wherever it is that he will readily step-up for you is where you want to train/teach him to go once he comes out of his cage on his own...Maybe it's right outside his cage door, maybe it's the top of his cage, maybe it's a T-Stand/Perch/Play-Stand that is sitting right next to his cage...Wherever he has no issue stepping-up for you is where he needs to be taught that "When the cage door opens I come outside and go right there".

Again, you're going to have to be patient and figure out where his boundaries are in-regards to "His Territory", because all birds are going to be different as far as where their "protective-territoriality" starts and ends. With Lita, my Quaker, when I open the door she comes out to the door opening of her cage and sits right on the edge of it, and then she steps-up for me right from there...It seems silly that I can touch her/pick her up from the entrance of her cage (where her tail is actually still inside of her cage, lol), but the second even my finger goes through that entrance she gets verbally upset...But parrots are not at all like any other animal/pet, least of all like dogs; dogs are taught/learn in broad-generalities,
as do most other pets, but parrots learn in specifics, just like people do. So while a dog would learn that they need to NEVER growl at/nip/bite their owner, and that when that back-door opens they need to immediately come inside, regardless of anything else, a parrot does actually understand that there are different "variables" or "circumstances"
that effect the outcome of what they are going to do and how they are going to act, and they really don't ever "bend" on that, especially when it comes to their territory. So this is probably going to come down to you needing to totally and completely respect that Rhage's cage is "his territory and his safe-space", and he just does not feel comfortable with you being inside of his safe-space when he's inside of it at the same time...And that usually has something to do with this issue as well, as some birds NEVER want anyone's hands inside of their cage, regardless of what they are doing, while other parrots, like my Quaker, are totally fine with their owner's feeding them and giving them water, but freak-out and become very defensive and territorial when anyone's hands, even their owner's, come near them while they are inside of their cage,
like they feel "cornered".

So that might also be part of what Rhage is feeling when you put your hand near him/touch him when he's inside of his cage. If Rhage is typically okay and doesn't give you negative verbal cues or try to nip at you/move your hands when you're feeding him or giving him water, then that's an indication that when you put your hands near him when he's inside of his cage and you try to FORCE HIM to step-up, that he is not only exhibiting some territoriality about "his space", but that he's also feeling cornered, like he has no choice, he has no where to go but onto your hand,
and this causes "Fight or Flight" to kick-in. So I'd definitely, at the very least, TRY to approach this situation with the idea that it's not that Rhage doesn't want to "step-up" for you or that he doesn't want to come out of his cage, in-fact it's probably just the opposite, he really would love to come out and be with you and have play-time, but rather that the problem is that you putting your hands inside of his territory, his "safe-space" is making him very protective and defensive about HIS TERRITORY, as well as that he may also be feeling a bit cornered and like he has nowhere to go, and that his "Fight or Flight" instincts may be kicking-in, especially when he does something like you described where he "screamed like you had pulled-out one of his feathers", as that is definitely a "Fight or Flight" reaction to being cornered inside of "his safe-space"...And instead of putting your hands or any of you inside of his territory, you need to respect his territory, and allow him to make the choice to come out on his own, and make sure to reward him greatly as soon as he does, both with verbal praise and a good treat. And remember to try to teach him to go to whatever place it is that he will readily step-up for you as soon as he comes out of his cage. That way you'll have an automatic routine that will happen every time you open-up his cage door and you say the verbal-cue to him, whatever that might be, something like "Rhage, time to come out for play-time", or whatever it is that you choose.

Please be patient with him, and please do not try to force this with him, as it will take some time. In fact, I actually ended-up opening up Lita's cage door and saying "Come on Lita, time to come out" and then waiting for her to come out seemingly forever, I made sure to step far away from her cage to give her space to come out (so that she didn't feel like I was going to just grab her or force her to step-up as soon as she came out the door), i repeated the same verbal-cue once every minute from a chair across the room from her cage, and after having the door open for about 10 minutes, asking her to come out for play-time once every minute or more from across the room from her cage, and mostly because I was losing my patience, I finally walked out of the room and then again asked her to come out for play-time, and then I listened from right outside the doorway and could hear her climbing outside her cage...Then I went back into the room and she was sitting on the doorway of her cage, I verbally praised her and gave her a treat, then put my hand out and she stepped right up...This was very early on in this training, so the moral of the story is you have to patient and not become frustrated...And reward Rhage like crazy when he does come out of his cage on his own. He'll get it eventually. Also, very important is to be sure to also verbally praise Rhage and give him a treat every time he does step-up for you, not only after he comes out of his cage on his own, but ANY TIME HE STEPS-UP FOR YOU! This will reinforce that him stepping-up for you when you ASK him to (not TELL him to) is the desirable behavior.

Just be patient, don't get frustrated as it will take time, try to understand and keep in-mind that it's not that he doesn't want to "step-up" for you or that he doesn't want to come out of his cage for play-time or to spend time with you, but that it's a matter of him feeling like you're "invading his territory and his "safe-space"" and making it no-longer "safe", then remind yourself that you need to respect that his cage is HIS CAGE.

 

[chris-md]

Ellen, love, I have nothing but respect for what you bring to the table, but could you PLEASE cut down the wall of texts? Two essays were not really necessary on this topic, and it makes it very difficult to 1) engage YOU on the topic, and 2) be inclusive of others who have interest in participating - it really sucks much of the oxygen out of a post.

I mean this with nothing but respect, and NOT trying to come for you. It would be so helpful if you could try to be a bit more concise - almost every post of yours is a massive wall

 

[LoveMyConlan]

@EllenD if he is on his cage or in it he is a brat to get to step up. Away from the cage he steps up about 90% of the time, but outs more of a HE wants to step up, not when I ask all the time. Mostly he will step on up, but occasionally he will shove my hand away and 'growl' at me.

I have tried fruits, veg, nuts, seeds, crackers, juice, and I even tried whip cream lol. He will go for it until he realizes im mor just GIVING it to him. Then he could care less lol. He is crazy smart.

If he is on the cage and I leave the room he will yell. And I noticed if I sit on the floor he will most times come down to the floor and come over, and I've rewarded that heavily. He LOVES to sit near on Klein window on a decent day, so I even tried making it so every time he came out that's what he got to do. He is still a grinch.

Somewhere we lost the partnership and he is trying to dictate the rules. And he touchy behavior has gotten worse. Usually I could touch him all over with no issues, and put him on his back. Now I get screamed at 50% of the time and she grabs me(not hard, but definitely not play).