Stress

[Owlet]

So I've only had Lincoln for a few weeks and we've bonded rapidly, a lot faster than I thought it'd take. He likes to yell "step up" at me when he wants to go on a walk around the house. He'll step up onto my arm and rhen make his way to my shoulder. He likes to relax there ands I walk around. I think he might have been potty trained prior to me getting him because he generally doesn't poop when off his cage unless I've had him out for some time. So that's a plus. All progress though has come to an absolute stand still though. He doesn't let me touch him, in fact of my hand even goes near him he gets ready to nip. Sometimes he get cage territorial (is that even a thing for parrots) because if I'm moving his food bowl or something and he's across the cage he'll go out of his way and try to nip at my arm. He's never bitten too hard, I do have a couple scabs on my fingers but nothing too serious like I know he could do. I want him to allow me to pet him but I have no idea how to go about that since even if I give him a treat he'll go to bite me (dropping the treat) if my hand comes near him. I get the feeling he had something traumatic happen to him that was hand related because he doesn't mind people being near him or like my face being close to him when he's perched on my shoulder, he just get bitey when he sees hangs. I really wish I knew more about his past so I had more of an understanding on what to do. That brings me to the next topic;;

Apparently, according to the vet, there are signs of feather chewing on Lincoln''s feathers. I don't know how long he's been feather chewing or if it's a recent thing. I don't know if it's a simple stress thing or he's a long term feather chewer. I have no idea how to encourage him not to chew his feathers either.

I don't know if these are just things that will fade with time, because again I haven't had him that long, I just want to be able to provide all I can for him and I admitabley get discourage rather easily. I'm working past that though and continuing to try despite being discouraged so don't worry even if I get discouraged I'll continue doing everything I can to make him happy and comfortable.

 

[Flboy]

Don't worry about the past, you are here now, both of you! Point? You are both learning each other! My JoJo hates having his neck rubbed. For a GCC, that is impossible! But he will let me rub his beak forever!
Being territorial over his cage, aren't we all? Even your closest friends ask permission before entering your house! Even a spouse respects your privacy in the throne room!

 

[chris-md]

Cage territoriality is a thing unfortunately. Not much you can do about it. Parker can get like that when he gets uncontrollably hormonally aggressive. Just have to move quickly, or remove him before you engage with the cage.

Unfortunately I'm all too familiar with feathers shewing as Parker is a barberer. It's a complex behavior that can have its roots in - among other things - boredom, poor nutrition, disease, and environmental stress. You have to work at it one by one to see if anything helps alleviate it.

Sometimes there is nothing you can do, like with Parker. It's developed into a habit, which is near impossible to break. The only thing you can do is address the underlying cause and accept him for who he is, a semi naked bird.

In your case you don't even know if it's a recent thing. That will take some detective work on your part. It's simple: if anything other than normal molted feathers appear on your cage floor, you have a problem.

 

[Owlet]

How do you tell if it's molted or plucked..?

 

[coopedup]

Dont worry too much about the feather loss (molt/pluck--and it's possible its actually both!) it's in the past and you cant undo it---just focus on when they grow back. Wrangler has many of the same issues you mention with Lincoln, and while he's made huge strides since I got him in June, there is still the occassional relapse. He regrew most of his body feathers and continues to get tail and primary wing feathers in, but over three days last month he went on a pluckfest and took out most of his back/chest/leg feathers. Theyre growing back again--and he's left his tail and wings alone, so we are on the right track. Keeping Lincoln happy and occupied will go a long way toward keeping feathers if he has had issues in the past, though it's entirely possible he may always pluck. This is just my experience with Wrangler, but it shows me that he's capable of not plucking for months at a time.

Now here's the odd thing....during daylight hours he is Mr. DONT TOUCH MY FEATHERS. I can touch beak and toes. That's it, even after 6 months. At night, I can scritch, rub, pickup/move, pretty much do anything I want as long as the lights are out. He loves having his neck scratched. Right now he spends part of the night in bed with me because he is cold (ok, so that's my excuse!) He has a good down coat, but without his top layer his ability to insulate isnt great. He loves to cuddle under my chin to keep warm, but during the day Mr Macho is only a shoulder rider, not a cuddle bug. It's like I have two birds. Ive noticed over time that i can now bring my other hand around/near him without him having any reaction--so its progress, just at his pace, not mine. Im hoping to use the nighttime cuddles as a bridge to daytime touching. This is all exacerbated by hormones because he is pretty insistant on trying to feed me, which I steadfastly refuse to allow.

Take your cues from Lincoln, let him set the pace, be patient. And remember, it's the journey that counts.

 

[davefv92c]

history, I just got done trying to get it on a 15yr old U2 I took in there are some sites on the net where you can research the leg band info. I had no luck with mine due to the Aviary where he was hatched has closed. I have a amazon that was hand raised at the same place where I was involved in Maxx's weaning process, but not involved with the amazon's. now she won't step up for me unless I'm rescuing her from the floor, and that is also the only time she will let me pet her and rub her neck and stuff. like yours if she see's a hand coming her way at any speed it is beak up lets get him.lol if she is on the top of the cage she will walk off onto my arm and hang out as long as I let her. I think she will come out of it in time but you have to let them figure out when that is.

 

[camo]

It's a shame he will choose to bite over food, as the food distraction I have found very successful with my two. Gizmo I don't think will ever be Mr Cuddles , but at least now I can touch him, and hold him if an emergency arises without the risk of injury, and if he does bite me now it is a hold and release, communicating his dislike of what I am doing rather than a bite.

Does Lincoln take treats from your hand? Is he target trained? If not, I would start with target training, with the idea of creating a distraction you can use (a way to snap him out of his attack thought process, and see that hands are not a threat). Once target trained, I would place the hand at the boundary of where he wants to attack the hand, (basically you want a small reaction that can be stopped with the reward for changing his mind and going to the target stick instead). As he goes for the hand, bring him back in the other direction with the target command (so the target stick is in the other hand), and then lots of praise and a treat. The target stick becomes the distraction, and you can gradually "invade" that boundary that he has decided is a no hand zone.

I think the key word here is "gradually", and every bird is an individual. With the food distraction that worked for me, I can now hold Pebbles (my female) upside down in my hands, but Gizmo is many many steps back from where she is, which in my mind is fine. It's about building trust, and there is no quicker way to loose trust than to push a training session too far.

If he is showing cage aggression, it might help to buy or build a training perch to work with him in the short term (otherwise you are trying to do too many things at once). I wonder if ultimately the cage aggression could be worked on the same way (says someone who has never experienced a bird with true cage aggression). Gizmo went through a phase that he enjoyed charging my OH when he was on the cage as she entered the room. I stopped the behaviour by getting him to come over to the other cage and do a turn. My OH would rattle the door, he would start heading over, I then called him back and got him to turn, it took two days, but he eventually stopped (well initially he was doing a turn when she entered the room). Now I don't think this was true cage aggression, but I think the same principles may work (although the progress would probably be a lot slower)

 

[davefv92c]

after reading some of this stuff I guess I got Maxx a good way. I waited 9 months for him,he was the second baby I had to wait for as the first suddenly passed while being weaned. the second worked out great he took 4 months to self wean while all along I was visiting him 3 times a week and handling him. he would always be trying to suck on my finger so it is something I believe is natural to him now because first thing in the morning when I uncover him he comes to the door and says good morning by gently nibbling on my finger and he also like to play this game with me where he catches my fingers but never with a real bite sometimes he just sits with his beak on my finger.

 

[camo]

after reading some of this stuff I guess I got Maxx a good way.

I can see what you are saying, but I just want to expand a bit on this, and perhaps offer an alternative way of thought.

I see this as the concept of two roads diverging in a wood. I hesitate to use the theme of Robert Frost's The Road Not Taken, as it is often misunderstood and generally misquoted, but it is also a well known poem and does illustrate the point, I think. Firstly if anyone reading, thinks the poem is about the celebration of "taking the road less travelled", then you have been perhaps fooled by Robert Frost and this is certainly not the point I am trying to make (this is why I scored so poorly in high school on my assessment of the poem, and perhaps why I remember this poem to this day).

You can never judge if one path was the better having only the opportunity to travel one (regardless of how the path appears at the beginning). Certainly with adoption one might suspect a much more bumpy and strenuous path before it bends in the undergrowth, but the truth is with parrots, as with life, you can only guess what even the initial path might be like, especially if, as in many cases you know very little or nothing about their past (I am not even sure how old Pebbles, my female is). An adopted parrot could in fact be a much easier initial path than raising a young parrot (a well loved parrot from say a home where the owner passed, may initially show signs of stress, but perhaps could settle quickly into a new home), and often 'true' personalities do not really show up until you are weeks or months into the relationship. As another example the perfect young eclectus, may reach puberty and an exorcist may then be required, there will always be challenges and bumpy paths to navigate through when it comes to owning a parrot regardless of how the journey starts.

This does not even take into account how you may change and grow through your experiences. Looking at my personal experience, even with the negatives that my two may have experienced, and bad behaviours, I believe their is something that for me has developed during those trials and hard times, a level of trust, a deeper understanding of body language, a strength to persevere, perhaps most importantly for me, a learning of patience, and to celebrate successes. Would I have had that personal growth, would they have developed the way they have, would the bond have developed differently if I got Gizmo or Pebbles from the earliest possible age. How have these experiences and us working through them together changed how they are now and will develop in the future. These are all questions we can never answer. Remember an eclectus is a friend for life, and that is a pretty long time.

This is not to say that I don't envy those who get the opportunity to look after their parrot from the earliest possible age (and especially as you were able to, visit him to bond before taking him home). You just don't have the choice to do both with the same bird, the closest you can come is to decide between adoption or getting a young bird, but even then you have no idea where these paths will take you. It's impossible to say at any point along the way, which was the better path.


Oh boy, did I just bring up poetry in a Parrot Forum. OK so I guess what I am saying is apart from the fact that we will all never know what could have happened had we just....., and that adoption should not be discounted even if it does turn out to be an initially harder road (which it doesn't always). What really matters is what we all do from now and that we look at the big picture. This is what I try to remember when things are not going so well, and if you own a parrot everyone will eventually experience hard times.

You can imagine how frustrating it would be if it takes two years to teach your parrot to step up, or to trust your hand, etc, etc, but that's still hopefully a very short time in the life of you and your parrot, and imagine all the things you will learn about your parrot and how you will grow as a person if it takes two years to teach them to step up, or to trust your hands

 

[davefv92c]

I get what you are saying,and I also have rescue birds which I never thought I would have. my journey a yr ago I decided to get a parrot and started to research because I really did not want a McCall or a cockatoo due to the screaming and noise so in my research I decided to get a couple of cockatiels to get warmed up and ready for a larger bird. after getting a book and reading up on the Eclectus I decided it was the type for me I was able to find 2 rescued females they where at a Petland they wanted 2500 bucks for 1 way out of range for a rescue. besides I had already decided to get a male so I did not have to deal with the problems that can come along with any female pets reproductive systems. so I found a local Aviary and 9 months later here is Maxx.

well the visiting process did end up getting me 3 more birds I guess the wife and I are just to softhearted but that's a good thing. the U2 Rescued, Sun Conure Rescued. this is the kind of stuff that happens when you take your wife to the bird store.lol

ownership I don't care to much for that word,im an old school biker and freedom has always been my thing. I like the word keeper way better. I look at it like this some humans took these guys out of the woods. my job is to see that they are taken care of and have a good life. I know some of you think I'm contribuiting to the problem by getting new birds but same goes there, I was not the one to put these captive birds together to breed.

 

[camo]

Sounds like Maxx is in a great home, although I suspect your going to need some more shoulders when you are at home by yourself (I frequently find myself walking around the house and Pebbles will be on one shoulder and Gizmo on the other).

I appreciate your thoughts on the word "ownership". I used to avoid the "ownership" word, but as I tried to give it different names, and friends would roll their eyes, I just started feeling like I was just trying to be politically correct and not facing up to some negatives surrounding the decision to have a pet. I wish I could say my actions don't have some bad consequences, but the reality is by owning Pebbles and Gizmo, I am guilty of certain sins, directly or indirectly, in the same way I can't eat meat and then deny being directly or indirectly responsible for the death of an animal.

I imagine that although I use ownership and you use the word keeper, the reality is we are probably both owned by our birds.

 

[Uglow]

You guys are still getting to know each other. A few suggestions that have worked with me and my little guy are.

-Well balanced diet. Obviously the most important element in caring for an eclectus. Tons of info here.

-Target training and trick training. daily for 5 minutes or as much as you can. Works wonders.

-Have a home away from home for him. Uglow has a tree in a separate room than his cage filled with toys and different types of branches.

-Toys, chewing and foraging. These have been known to help when it comes to feather issues. I have no first hand experience. But a busy parrot won't have time to get bored and start working on feathers.

-Uglow eats breakfast on the tree and dinner in the cage. when I have time, I'll hold his food bowl and he'll eat on my lap.

-don't make every cage interaction "getting him out-putting him in". For example. Our cage has 4 slots for food bowls. We use one for food, one for water, one for foot toys. Sometimes I walk by and add a few foot toys for him. Sometimes I add a healthy treat in one of his foraging toys. Sometimes I toss an almond sliver in while he's eating. Sometimes we'll play peekaboo with him. Just make your cage interactions positive.

-get a shower perch. set it up high and out of the water stream. perch him up there while you shower. Uglow and I have our daily man to man conversations there. It's completely ridiculous and I can hear my wife laughing outside but I feel like it's an awesome bonding time with the little guy.

-When you give him a treat, don't give it to him and walk away. I've started hiding treats in my sweatshirt pockets and in my hoodie. You want to teach him some discipline but you also want to be the fun uncle.

-This one is optional and a lot of folks have strong opinions on either side of the issue. I've allowed Uglow to grow his flight feathers and I believe he's the happiest he's ever been. He flies figure 8s back and forth for exercise. He's less afraid to sit lower because he knows he can fly away making him way more curious and adventurous. He comes to us when he wants to hang out instead of yelling. It's awesome. Now, he hasn't hit puberty yet so I'm bracing for impact...I have no idea if he's gonna be a mean teen or a randy teen. Either one combined with flight will require some attention. but for now, it's awesome.

Hope that helps.

 

[davefv92c]

Sounds like Maxx is in a great home, although I suspect your going to need some more shoulders when you are at home by yourself (I frequently find myself walking around the house and Pebbles will be on one shoulder and Gizmo on the other).

I appreciate your thoughts on the word "ownership". I used to avoid the "ownership" word, but as I tried to give it different names, and friends would roll their eyes, I just started feeling like I was just trying to be politically correct and not facing up to some negatives surrounding the decision to have a pet. I wish I could say my actions don't have some bad consequences, but the reality is by owning Pebbles and Gizmo, I am guilty of certain sins, directly or indirectly, in the same way I can't eat meat and then deny being directly or indirectly responsible for the death of an animal.

I imagine that although I use ownership and you use the word keeper, the reality is we are probably both owned by our birds.

politically correct, ya can't look at me and say anything is correct as I look about like Phil on Duck Dynasty.lol I do want to thank you for the info as all is good I need to learn all I can.

thanks again

 

[davefv92c]

You guys are still getting to know each other. A few suggestions that have worked with me and my little guy are.

-Well balanced diet. Obviously the most important element in caring for an eclectus. Tons of info here.

-Target training and trick training. daily for 5 minutes or as much as you can. Works wonders.

-Have a home away from home for him. Uglow has a tree in a separate room than his cage filled with toys and different types of branches.

-Toys, chewing and foraging. These have been known to help when it comes to feather issues. I have no first hand experience. But a busy parrot won't have time to get bored and start working on feathers.

-Uglow eats breakfast on the tree and dinner in the cage. when I have time, I'll hold his food bowl and he'll eat on my lap.

-don't make every cage interaction "getting him out-putting him in". For example. Our cage has 4 slots for food bowls. We use one for food, one for water, one for foot toys. Sometimes I walk by and add a few foot toys for him. Sometimes I add a healthy treat in one of his foraging toys. Sometimes I toss an almond sliver in while he's eating. Sometimes we'll play peekaboo with him. Just make your cage interactions positive.

-get a shower perch. set it up high and out of the water stream. perch him up there while you shower. Uglow and I have our daily man to man conversations there. It's completely ridiculous and I can hear my wife laughing outside but I feel like it's an awesome bonding time with the little guy.

-When you give him a treat, don't give it to him and walk away. I've started hiding treats in my sweatshirt pockets and in my hoodie. You want to teach him some discipline but you also want to be the fun uncle.

-This one is optional and a lot of folks have strong opinions on either side of the issue. I've allowed Uglow to grow his flight feathers and I believe he's the happiest he's ever been. He flies figure 8s back and forth for exercise. He's less afraid to sit lower because he knows he can fly away making him way more curious and adventurous. He comes to us when he wants to hang out instead of yelling. It's awesome. Now, he hasn't hit puberty yet so I'm bracing for impact...I have no idea if he's gonna be a mean teen or a randy teen. Either one combined with flight will require some attention. but for now, it's awesome.

Hope that helps.

nice post and thanks for the time you spent, along with all this info. a question I have is I have been looking for a safe indoor tree all the birds I have could use when out playing? on the second cage I read a book that told a story of a guy's eclectus would take itself to it's sleeping cage in another room at sunset. I do have a second cage but have yet to use it. should I maybe save it till the time when a problem pops up with him?i see no issues with him in the living room with the rest of the birds at night.