Stevie, the Illiger's Macaw

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[noblemacaw]

I had an Illiger's macaw named Diego. In Sept. 2002 I flew out to California to get him. Since I was the first to pay off the parrot I got pick of the flock.

Out of the 6 babies 5 were males. I wanted a male so I concentrated on the 5 parrots that were male. I took each baby into a small bathroom and let the parrot interact with me on his own terms. I decided on the male that seemed to like to be with me. Granted these Illiger's were all co-parented meaning the breeder let the parents raise them and she also helped raise them. Diego was a very well adjusted mini macaw.

It took three weeks for Diego to forgive me for taking him from all he knew. I flew back with him and for three weeks he wanted NOTHING to do with me. Within the third week he was cuddle wrestling with me and I knew then I had him.

Diego favored me above everyone else. If I was present he wanted only me. Unfortunately even with all the socialization I did with him Diego still preferred me above all other people. When he became sexually mature I didn't seem much difference in behavior. Instead of biting Diego showed his displeasure by "pecking" my hand with that hard black beak. That hurt. He also liked to run his beak hard across my knuckles as some kind a weird pleasure thing. It didn't hurt as bad as him knocking his beak hard against my hands. He could nip hard but he never drew blood on me. He has drawn blood on Lupe but never hurt anyone to an extreme.

I would consider Diego non aggressive but a one person parrot. He had a good vocabulary and use to love to ly in my neck area while we were relaxing/watching TV.

Did you get your Illiger's as a hand fed baby? How long have you had yours? How old is he? Is he a he? What do you feed him? What training methods do you use? Is the bird vocal, screams or plucks? Does he have all his flight feathers or is he clipped? I clipped Diego's primaries ONCE because he was getting older and was having an attitude. I will never forget the look he gave me after I cut off his feathers. I never clipped him again and I flew in the house daily as he was trained to fly where I commanded him to.

Diego was 9 years old when he collapsed in his cage after I commanded him to fly back to it to refresh himself and releave himself. (we were watching TV together and it had been 2 hours he was with me and needed to go back to cage to refresh/releave himself.) On the way with rushing him into the clinic for treatment he had trouble breathing and I gave him mouth to beak resuscitation. He survived the drive in but the doctor was unable to save him even with using heroic measure.

I miss my Diego every single day. He could be a little Ahole but he was my boy and I loved him very much. Tell me more about your Illiger's maybe I can help.

Here is a pic of my boy Taken two years before his stroke.

An older picture of Diego in perfect feather. Look at him. You gotta love him.

 

[MikeyTN]

Sometimes it has to do with the way you present yourself to them! I don't train the same way you do but mine works fine for me as I got my macaws trained in a short period. Hope you find ways to go through it!

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[MonicaMc]

Have you done any clicker training? Positive reinforcement training? Applied behavior analysis?

 

[Abigal7]

Stevie is a cutie. Captain Jack is a pretty calm bird but when he starts to get nippy I let him go play with his toys. Captain Jack never draws any blood.

 

[Abigal7]

I had an Illiger's macaw named Diego. In Sept. 2002 I flew out to California to get him. Since I was the first to pay off the parrot I got pick of the flock.

Out of the 6 babies 5 were males. I wanted a male so I concentrated on the 5 parrots that were male. I took each baby into a small bathroom and let the parrot interact with me on his own terms. I decided on the male that seemed to like to be with me. Granted these Illiger's were all co-parented meaning the breeder let the parents raise them and she also helped raise them. Diego was a very well adjusted mini macaw.

It took three weeks for Diego to forgive me for taking him from all he knew. I flew back with him and for three weeks he wanted NOTHING to do with me. Within the third week he was cuddle wrestling with me and I knew then I had him.

Diego favored me above everyone else. If I was present he wanted only me. Unfortunately even with all the socialization I did with him Diego still preferred me above all other people. When he became sexually mature I didn't seem much difference in behavior. Instead of biting Diego showed his displeasure by "pecking" my hand with that hard black beak. That hurt. He also liked to run his beak hard across my knuckles as some kind a weird pleasure thing. It didn't hurt as bad as him knocking his beak hard against my hands. He could nip hard but he never drew blood on me. He has drawn blood on Lupe but never hurt anyone to an extreme.

I would consider Diego non aggressive but a one person parrot. He had a good vocabulary and use to love to ly in my neck area while we were relaxing/watching TV.

Did you get your Illiger's as a hand fed baby? How long have you had yours? How old is he? Is he a he? What do you feed him? What training methods do you use? Is the bird vocal, screams or plucks? Does he have all his flight feathers or is he clipped? I clipped Diego's primaries ONCE because he was getting older and was having an attitude. I will never forget the look he gave me after I cut off his feathers. I never clipped him again and I flew in the house daily as he was trained to fly where I commanded him to.

Diego was 9 years old when he collapsed in his cage after I commanded him to fly back to it to refresh himself and releave himself. (we were watching TV together and it had been 2 hours he was with me and needed to go back to cage to refresh/releave himself.) On the way with rushing him into the clinic for treatment he had trouble breathing and I gave him mouth to beak resuscitation. He survived the drive in but the doctor was unable to save him even with using heroic measure.

I miss my Diego every single day. He could be a little Ahole but he was my boy and I loved him very much. Tell me more about your Illiger's maybe I can help.

Here is a pic of my boy Taken two years before his stroke.

An older picture of Diego in perfect feather. Look at him. You gotta love him.

Captain Jack likes to run his beak hard across the top of my hand. I do not know why but he has an obsession with peoples mouths and tries to put his beak in that area.

 

[MikeyTN]

Is he your first macaw??? What other bird knowledge do you have???

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[MonicaMc]

Sorry, I posted right after you and didn't get a chance to read your blog or view the video. I feel your pain, if only in a minor way! I have a conure that's clipped (growing out flights right now, but can't fly), and terrified of hands. She loves scritches, don't get me wrong! But the thought of stepping onto a hand? Terrifying to her! For a while, we played the "back and forth" game of her desiring to be *WITH* me but being too afraid to actually come *TO* me... so if I left, she'd scream for me. If I went to get her, she'd run scrambling back into her cage to hide. She's terrified of being down low unless she willingly goes down herself. Unlike Stevie, she does not go out of her way to attack me, but she will bite if startled or afraid. She is now at least comfortable enough that she'll climb onto me, but hands are still a scary thing.

I know someone with 3 illies, and all 3 are different! I don't know if this owner would be of much help to you or not, but it may be worth asking her anyway! Maybe she can give you some insight?

jnaholiday - YouTube


I see you have already discovered Barbara Heidenreich! That's great! If you haven't already, may I suggest reaching out to Lara Joseph? She offers online one on one help through Skype! (for a fee, of course)

THE ANIMAL BEHAVIOR CENTER LLC.


And if you want to get to know more about her and what she does, just look at her blog! Read through it!

Lara Joseph | An avid avian training, behavior, and enrichment enthusiast.



And the following website also has some good posts.

Learning Parrots | Empowering the learners in our households


I definitely think you are heading in the right area! Clicker training can help! A clicker is not required, but does help to bridge the gap between the behavior and the reward. (saying that, I still haven't found my two clickers... and knowing me, if I were to buy a third, one or both of the old ones would show up! *rolls eyes* lol )

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[MonicaMc]

I've only had Jayde for 3 months now (in early September), and she's 3 years old. She is hand fed. Her original owner had her for near 3 years, and then was given back to the breeder (if I have the story right). Someone then bought her from the breeder to foster her. Six months later, she's still looking for a permanent home for Jayde. The gal who was fostering Jayde could never get her to step up but did realize that even as unhandable as she is, she desires human companionship. She apparently also had Jayde's wings "evened out", so I guess she had a pretty horrible clip!

I actually feel guilty training Jayde without her flights. There have been a few times that she's tried to fly after someone, only to end up being on the floor. She's a 'social butterfly' in the fact that she doesn't like being alone, and if someone was to gush all over her, she'd eat it up! She loves one on one attention, even if it's not physical! She gets so animated and vocal, so you know she's enjoying it!

Moment you go to offer your hand? She'd either run away or bite you! She used to bite to cause a lot of pain and result in blood, but now it's more hard nipping. With her, I actually try to avoid getting bitten in the first place, but easier said than done! LOL

She loves getting scritches, so it's not like she's afraid of hands. She'll also take treats from your fingers, but other times she might reach around and bite, too! It's just something about being *on* hands that bothers her! Her cage was her safety blanket. Still is! But at least now she's comfortable enough to leave it, and when she's had enough "out" time, she has a very particular squawk (it's like "i'm terrified" kind of squawk) that she quietly does, and when I hear that, I take her back to the cage! Sometimes, just being on her cage is enough to settle her down and she's ready to get back up again!

I don't know how her breeder handled her, nor do I know how she was handled by her first owner. What I do know is that with Jayde, if I were to try the methods most often recommended, I'd have very bloody hands that would be hurting from pain, and one very unhappy parrot! I actually feel as if she'll be easier to work with once she is flighted, because then she can choose to be with me or on her cage. She so badly needs that confidence!


Charlie, my mitred conure, flies to my head then crawls down to my shoulder. If I'm sitting down, he takes it further and climbs to my arms, the desk/table, down into my lap... he's a comfortable and confident bird. Jayde would be described as a "dominant" bird (likes being on shoulders, bites hands), but just looking at her behavior, I can tell that that is far from the truth. She's terrified. She's not even comfortable being in my lap. She's often ok with me covering her head with my hands when she's climbing up my shirt, but again, still doesn't like being on hands. If she accidentally steps on my hand, she'll readjust herself so she's not on my hand. It's ok for her foot to touch my hand, but it's not ok for her foot to be on my hand.


Because of her behavior, I've actually been putting off *really* training her. I look forward to the moment she can fly, because I believe that she will be easier to work with. Everyone else says the opposite! (makes me feel as if there is something wrong with me! LOL)



Lara Joseph uses positive reinforcement and applied behavior analysis. Clicker training is essentially positive reinforcement. Lara doesn't use a clicker. She also does not believe in dominance! (same goes for Barbara Heidenreich!)

One thing I have learned is to not "ignore" bad behavior. Ignoring it doesn't necessarily make it go away... however, if a bad behavior is occurring (biting or screaming for example), try to prevent the behavior from occurring (even going as far as figuring out why it's occurring in the first place, then avoid the triggers for that behavior), then rewarding for good behavior, which may require teaching new, acceptable behaviors.



My birds are far beyond being perfect! But I will say that someday I'd love to go to Lara Joseph's training center and learn from her! (but there's also some other trainers I'd love to meet, too!)

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[LiL_Caity413]

 

[noblemacaw]

After I made my post I had to rush off to fight the traffic to get to class. I am in class until about 9pm I come home and spend momma time with my RFM Valentino, watch the news then put him to bed.

I watched your video of you and Stevie interacting. I saw some cuddle wrestling behavior when he was on your lap and was hanging on your wrist/hand area and well cuddling wrestling your arm. That to me was normal Illiger's behavior they will only do with the people they bonded to and trust.

I have no video's of Diego to show you. After I started making videos of Valentino I realized very painfully that I have none of Mihijo my Noble macaw, Diego my Illiger's or Joaquin my Eclectus. All my boys are now across the rainbow bridge.

I can see you have come a LONG way with Stevie. This is moving forward but I understand you want your relationship with him to be even better. I have always felt my Illiger's was a "spicy" parrot with a "hot" personality. His assigned color was always red because he had a strong personality so I had to do things differently with him than I did with my other parrots.

To take him out of his cage I trained him to perch on the perch closest to the door. If he followed command he was ready and willing to come out. If I gave the command and he did not come forward to get onto the perch but stay back on his boing or where ever else he was at I closed the door and walked away. I would try again a few moments later giving him a change to change his mind or give me clear signals he was not in the mood. Very rarely he would not want to come out to be with me. With the command "perch" he would run across his rope perch, stop to poop, then scramble as fast as he could to get to the special perch of freedom.

It did help I got Diego from a very good breeder. She opened her home to me because I flew out from MN to California to get him. She had me stay with her for 4 days and she taught me so much about husbandry, training and how she raised her parrots. I have always been impressed with how she did things back then (2002). I noticed during the great West Nile Virus outbreak on the west coast she had trouble getting her Illiger's to the needed breeders (she was involved with a preservation program with the Illiger's and would ship her birds to other Illiger breeders around the US to keep the bloodlines versatile.

Diego was a second generation domestically bred Illiger's. Both his parents were bred in the US, his grandparents were probably products of wild caught birds. I believe this makes Diego an F3. It sounds to me the breeder you got Stevie from did not do their job very well in raising him and his diet sounded kind of bad there. Diego was allowed to have his parents raise him with the breeder helping. She took them from the parents to take inside I believe 6 weeks to 2 months of age. (I can't remember exact because its been a long time). I took Diego home at 4 and half months of age. He never regressed for hand feeding like my other parrots have done after first coming home with me. Diego was very confident baby when he came home.

I wonder if building up Stevie's confidence will help him with his fears? It can't hurt for sure to do this. I had to build the confidence of my baby Eclectus Joaquin because he was so fearful he would bite my hands so hard when I had to work with him. I use to wrap him up in a baby blanket and lay him on my chest and gently talk and sing to him. I also use to take him every where with me slowly exposing him to a world where I was his constant. I always made sure the experiences were positive for him and non stressful. I also use to feed him warm wet foods from my fingertips. No matter how afraid he might of been he always took the warm wet food gently from my fingertips. Over time Joaquin went from a very frightened aggressive Eclectus and ended up being my the best I used for pet therapy. Joaquin had a unique talent for helping people feel better. He loved his work and it was a privilege to be a vehicle to do this work with him.

From what I saw in your video to your descriptions of what Stevie was like when you brought him home I think you have come MILES AHEAD. I also think with your hard work and dedication Stevie will continue to improve. You keep things on a positive note and Stevie will learn to relax around you. I would want to know what gender he is for sure because that information might come in handy for later dealings of health issues. I cannot believe a breeder if a endangered bird species does not DNA her babies. The only reason I was able to get my Illiger's as a pet was because I wanted a male as females were always held back for the program.

My mind is full of more things I can share with you but I sort of overwhelming myself. Please ask me any questions and that will help me narrow down my posts better. Sorry for such long posts from me. I have a passionate nature about Illiger's and strongly want to help. When it was told to me I favored Diego above my other parrots I denied this with every fiber of my being but after he was gone I realized the truth in that statement. I loved my Diego very strongly even with his spicy personality.

 

[MikeyTN]

I was curious about your experiences that's all plus I wasn't able to comment too much since I'm not able to watch the video on my phone until I get home on my computer. He looks like he's doing great with you, he reminds me of my Lory the way he goes under your hand and flips over....lol.....My Lory does it all the time....From what I can see in the video, your doing just fine with him. Like you've said, it just takes time. He might not be treated properly to begin with and it can take a long time to train that out of them. I would just keep on doing what your doing and not to over think about it. He's very very adorable by the way!!!!

 

[MonicaMc]

Unlike Stevie, Jayde doesn't go out of her way to attack. I don't feel as if she has the need to escape, but that she has a need to feel comfort and safety when required. Sometimes that's on me, sometimes that's her cage. She's actually comfortable enough to sit on the back of a chair if I'm sitting on it, but only for short periods of time. The back of the chair is also slightly shorter than my shoulder.

If I lay down on the couch, she remains close to my head. Charlie on the other hand is off wandering up and down my body, looking for places to dig under or into and exploring things.


She bites more out of fear and being uncomfortable than aggression. As she becomes more comfortable, her biting pressure has lessened. I wouldn't say that she's quite settled in and comfortable yet, but she's definitely better than when she first arrived.

I was told she likes wood and bells. This seems to be true! It took her a while before she'd start chewing on anything, but once she did, I started finding pieces of wood on the cage bottom. Maybe it was just slivers, other times an entire small block of wood. She actually went after rope, first! Then it was wood. Then a bagel toy with a bell on it. (which remains unharmed, but she likes to ring it anyway!) Now she's also chewing the cardboard toy!

I also put together a "foraging basket" for her (since changed containers), and she'll go through it, chew on things and drop them. Sometimes I find some of the items in one of her food dishes (which aren't located very far away!) If an item is clean, I'll toss it back in. If she's soiled it, out it goes! And I have other items I can place inside of it, too! Mostly, she's taken out "foot toys", small pinecones, wood blocks and beads.

I plan on using positive reinforcement training/clicker training with her. Was looking for something tonight, but didn't come across my clickers in the search... ah well!

I've gotten a flock of untame adult budgies to fly to my hand for food and without hesitation. It was just an experiment. This then lead to getting cockatiels of various tameness to fly to my hand for food and learn to trust in me. Granted, I had no intentions of doing this! Of course, one tiel had other ideas! And it came to the point that even my most skittish cockatiel who'd take off any time I came near him all of a sudden was flying to me and patiently waiting for me to get him food, when I had no food on me! Something I had never expected!

It would be great to do something similar with Jayde, but I know that her training will actually be different. Much different. The desire to be with humans is already there. It's just her feeling unsure, afraid and scared of hands. Someone did tell me that if she is not a pet quality bird that I should put her into a breeding program - which I might agree with, since RTC's are not common within captivity, but she has that pet desire. Probably the reason she's not being bred right now is that she did not get along with another conure that she was caged with and is missing feathers on the back of her head (still waiting for those to grow in!).



If you don't like taking away Stevie's seed, why not identify the first 2-3 items he eats out of his dish all the time? You can then remove those items alone while still leaving the seed in his dish. The items you've picked out are now his training treats.

Would something like that work?

 

[MonicaMc]

BTW, first time I tried to watch your video, I only saw the first few seconds of it! Had to go back and watch it again to see what I was missing!


Stevie is adorable! And he is definitely a very confident individual! Seems like there's some bad behavior, but a lot of wrestling kind of behavior! Jayde is definitely no where close to being that comfortable with me! Being on her back and being upside down scares her, so that's another thing for us to work on!


Also saw the paintings in the background. Loved them!!!

 

[LiL_Caity413]