Soon to be Eclectus parront

[Shae26]

Hi guys

I need some help. On Monday I am driving 2 hours to pick up a 5 week old Eclectus baby from a friend of mine who really shouldn't have bought him in the first place. She's a uni student and is taking a 5 year course and somehow thought it would be a good idea to get a parrot that has extensive dietary needs and much, much more attention than she would be able to provide.

The breeder won't take him back which doesn't surprise me seeing as he's already been paid (lets face it, what reputable breeder would sell a 5 week old parrot to a clueless uni kid who has never owned more than a budgie in her life?) and she doesn't just want to sell him on to someone else, so she called me. I am a very experienced hand raiser with several different species (namely cockatiels, rosella's and rainbow lorikeets) so she figured he'd be better off with me than a random person.

SO. I have spent the past two days reading pretty much everything I can about raising an eclectus as this would be my first. I am confident that I will be able to raise him well (I work from home so time and attention are not limited). I have an "empty nest" with my last clutch of babies weaned and gone to their new forever homes.

I am pretty much set for nutritional needs for when he's older. I already make up a "chop" mix for my current birds which contains a mixture of veggies, legumes and grains, and from what I have read, this will be suitable for the Ekkie as well. My current birds also get fresh fruit served every day, and a small amount of seeds and pellets served usually every other day. They also get scrambled eggs a couple times a week which they all go nuts for.

I already have all of the equipment I need such as brooder, feeding utensils, gram scales etc.

So anyway, I have compiled a list of questions that I figured would be best answered by Ekkie owners. I thank you in advance for your help!

1. He is only 5 weeks old and (very obviously) still on formula. At this age, how much should I be giving him, and how many times a day? I am aware that Ekkies can take a long time to feed and keeping the formula at the correct temperature during the feed is essential.

2. At roughly what age do chicks begin foraging, and is my usual weaning mix okay? (millet, softened raw or lightly steamed veggies, small amounts of soft fruits, some seeds to play with, I also offer a shallow plate of chop for them to experiment with even though it usually just ends up all over their faces and feet)

3. I abundance wean all of my chicks, but roughly what age would you say is an average weaning age?

4. Are there any specific foods that I need to avoid? Other than the obvious ones like chocolate and avocado.

5. I have read that pellets are not a good idea for Eclectus. Should I just leave them out of his diet, or is he okay to have small amounts? Either way is perfectly fine, whatever is healthiest for him.

6. How much chop would you recommend I feed him when he is weaned? I read that 4 tablespoons per serve is appropriate for weaned babies under 6 months. Thoughts/suggestions?

That's about all for right now. I am confident that I can do well by this baby, but I want to have as much info as possible and a feeding plan in place when I get him home.

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!

 

[skylala]

It sounds like the little baby will be in good hands with you! Sounds like he will be better off with you then the original breeder.

Regarding pellets, unless you can guarantee you are giving him 100% of the vitamins and minerals he needs in a fresh food diet, then pellets should be essential. If he eats well (Which he should hopefully when you wean him onto fresh food) he should only need a small amount to top up any vitamins and such that is missing in what you are feeding him.

Many eclectus are sent to vets with vitamin deficiencies (Maybe more so then other species) because people are scared of pellets but have picky eaters or don't feed an appropriate balance of fresh food. I find the pellet debate particularly frustrating personally because while there is some good advice out there, often the advice is not good (Eg: NEVER FEED PELLETS EVER). Vitamin A in particular seems to be an issue, so when you are introducing fresh food when weaning maybe it would be a good idea to introduce vitamin A rich things like sweet potato, carrots, capsicum and kale as some of the first foods so he is more inclined to eat it later on in life?

If you have a complete balanced diet in fresh food you don't need pellets, however very few people can offer this.
If you have a bird that eats extremely well but you are not sure you are offering all vitamins and minerals, offer a small amount of pellets as part of their diet to 'top up' what may be missing.
If you have a bird that is extremely picky with food and only eats a small variety, it is safer for pellets to be the backbone of the diet to guarantee nutrition.

Some eclectus have food allergies, corn in particular seems to be one they are prone to. Be careful with pellets if this is the case as many pellets have corn as a main ingredient.
Paradise Pellets are good for Eclectus : Paradise Pellets - Vetafarm

 

[Shae26]

Thank you!!

This is exactly why I wanted to ask here. I've read so many things that say not to give pellets to eclectus, but i've also read a couple of things that say it's okay. All of my current birds get a small amount of pellets and seeds (minus the lorikeets who get nectar pellets but not seeds) to round out their diet which is mostly made up of fresh food.

And thank you for the pellets recommendation, we actually have those here! I'm in Australia and most things that people recommend aren't stocked here and it sucks lol. But I use vetafarm regularly so it's nice to see another one of their products recommended.

I love when chicks begin weaning because I can give them pretty much anything and they'll try it. All of my hand raised birds eat extremely well because I brought them up on fresh food (starting them out on chop has been my saving grace lol) and unless they really just don't like something, they eat pretty much everything I give them. There are some things the cockatiels would rather not eat, but I make my chop quite fine and everything kind of blends in and they unknowingly eat stuff they wouldn't eat if it was on its own lol.

I will keep an eye on the corn allergy thing. I don't give my flock a large amount of corn anyway but I will be especially mindful of this with baby ekkie.

 

[Shae26]

Well I finally have him home! He's a little bigger than I expected haha!

Fed him at 6:45pm.. Pre-feed weight was 345g and he ate 24cc's. At 5 weeks old I read I should be giving him 20-30cc's every 5 hours, does that sound right?

 

[Shae26]

Here's a photo

 

[Anansi]

Hello, Shae. Sorry I'm just now seeing this thread. In all likelihood you've probably already gotten an answer to your handfeeding question. But if you still have questions there, you might watch to try the breeding and hand-raising sub-section on this site. You'd be more likely to have your thread seen by people who have experience with hand-feeding baby birds.

Every bird I've had was always weaned, first.

As for some of your earlier questions, I'd say you should definitely continue to expose your baby ekkie to fresh veggies, sprouts and fruits as he continues to grow and develop his own tastes.

While some eclectus owners have reported success with pellets, I definitely prefer to offer a fresh diet. A complete fresh diet is closer to what they'd be getting in nature, and some of the pellets/supplements out there are not designed with eclectus parrots in mind... which can lead to over-supplementation. (I'm not saying all pellets are bad. But some have definitely proven deleterious to the health of ekkies. The key, really, is to understand that ekkies are more sensitive and vulnerable to such over-supplementation and, if going the pellet route, to ensure that your brand wouldn't be exposing your bird to those dangers. For me, personally, I just stay away from it entirely. Personal choice.)

Skylala is correct in pointing out, however, that feeding your ekkie a fresh food diet carries with it the responsibility of covering all of his nutritional needs.

How does one manage this?

Knowledge, variety, observation and trickery. You start off with knowledge. Finding out which foods offer which nutritional values. For me, the ekkie food bible is this site: http://eclectusparrots.net/nutrition.html.

And then there's variety. A broad base of available foods ensures maximum coverage for your ekkie's nutritional needs. I usually have no less than around 7 foods mixed together in their chop for each meal. (And personally, I like to only make enough chop for 2-3 days. More than that, and you run the risk of him tiring of that particular mix.) There should be a definite focus on foods rich in Vitamin A.

Observation is vital here as well. Watch carefully, and observe which foods your ekkie craves... and which ones he despises. And keep in mind the food rejected once, twice, or even thrice, may one day become a favorite. Try different methods of preparation and see what he prefers. Some like large chunks of food. Others would rather it diced. Some foods they'll prefer raw, some slightly steamed, and some cooked. Some may prefer their foods with a sprinkling of curry seasoning, for instance, or lightly sautéed in coconut oil. (I have yet to meet the ekkie who wouldn't go crazy for nearly anything dribbled in a little coconut oil! Haha!) Just try different things and observe the results.

And finally, trickery. Look, there are some foods that they can decide they hate. Cucumbers. Grapes. Bananas. Strawberries. Who cares? Just trade them out for something else.

BUT...

There are other foods that are so important, so nutritionally dense, that refusal isn't really an option. Up until last week, for instance, neither Jolly or Maya liked carrots. And they both remain less than thrilled about dandelion.

Unacceptable. Lol!

Carrots are RICH in Vitamin A, and dandelion greens are just a nutritional powerhouse!

So this is where trickery comes into play. I grated (again, until last week) the carrots into little slivers and mix it in with the rest of their chop, taking care to include some of their favorite foods onto the chop as well. Same principle with the dandelion. I chop it into tiny bits that would take an insane amount of sifting to separate from the other foods that they love so much.

And that's how my birds get a healthy serving of carrots and dandelion in nearly every meal.

There are other tricks as well. Such as the aforementioned coconut oil, or mixing in a beloved food that tends to flavor the foods around it. Like pomegranates. Most ekkies LOVE pomegranates (which are rather nutritious in and of themselves), and their juices flavor the foods with which they are mixed. Same goes for halved or quartered blueberries (which, FYI, happens to be a super food).

This all sounds like a lot of work, but that's really mostly the initial case. Once you really get to know your bird, it gets MUCH easier.

Here's a link to an excellent thread started by Laura (labell) that has some good info and reference links: http://www.parrotforums.com/showthread.php?t=52737

A little late, I know. But I hope that helps a bit.

 

[skylala]

Knowledge, variety, observation and trickery. You start off with knowledge. Finding out which foods offer which nutritional values. For me, the ekkie food bible is this site: nutrition.

Be mindful though that this website does not explain how much of each vitamin and nutrient is necessary.
Knowing what vitamins and minerals are in each food and giving those foods to your pet gives that pet a complete diet. However for optimum nutrition you need a complete and balanced diet.

It is one thing to know kale has vitamins K, A, and C, but how much of each is in it and how much does your bird need?

Vitamins A, D, E and K can cause health issues if they are deficient, but these vitamins are stored in the fatty tissue and liver and can reach toxic levels if fed in excess. So, feeding not enough is bad. Feeding too much is bad. How do you know the balance? (This is a general question not aimed at anyone)

Too much or too little of vitamins and minerals can not only cause many health problems, but they can also cancel out the absorption of other vitamins and minerals. For example, too much phosphorus can cancel out the absorption of calcium leading to calcium deficiency. Too much calcium can cause deficiencies in Magnesium, Iron, Iodine and Zinc. While not enough Vitamin D3 causes deficiency in both Calcium and Phosphorus, but excessive Vitamin D3 can cause gout.

Calcium and Phosphorus (And vitamin D3) also need a balanced ratio. I'm not sure of the ratio for eclectus but for parrots in general it seems the ratio is 2:1.
Ratios over 3:1 produce rickets and leg abnormalities in parrots.
Does anyone ever monitor this ratio in their parrots diet?

Here are some lists with some fruit and veg Ca : P ratios; Guinea Lynx -- Calciumhosphorus Ratios
Guinea Lynx :: Nutrition Charts
The Iguana Den - Iguana Diet - Vegetable Calhos Ratios
The Iguana Den - Iguana Diet - Fruit Calhos Ratios

Here is a vet website with more diet information: What do I feed my Eclectus Parrot? |

All in all, nutrition is hard! If you choose raw diet or pellet+raw, research needs to be done for both and regular vet checks to monitor how the diet is working

 

[Anansi]

Skylala, before I respond to your post I just have to say that, though we may not be on the exact same page when it comes to our ekkies' diets, I'm always impressed with the obvious effort and care that you put into raising your little guy.

Okay. While knowing which foods are strong in which nutritional values and having a general idea of which foods may potentially cancel out the nutritional benefits of others are important, it's generally unnecessary to get into the minutia of ratios and such. (Well, other than the overriding importance of Vitamin A.) At least, not when dealing with a natural, fresh diet. There are many members who quite successfully feed their ekkies, and even their parrots in general, fresh foods without over complicating it to that degree.

After all, how many parrots in the wild are measuring nutritional values before taking each bite? That's just not how it works.

So how do they wind up with balanced diets?

The key is in the available variety. And as such, the key for us is to mimic, as closely as possible, what is available to them in nature.

Some eclectus will demonstrate a sensitivity to certain nutritional components, whether with a natural or pelleted diet, at which point adjustments would be required.

Although with a pelleted diet, the adjustment would have to be switching brands... as you cannot adjust a particular nutritional value yourself.

Now, the kind of specific, detailed calculation to which you refer is exactly what would need to go into a pellet that is truly balanced for an ekkie diet. And in fact, it's that consideration that changed my stance on pellets from a hard NO to a stated preference for feeding my guys a natural diet.

How so?

Well, my issue with pellets has always been the high number of eclectus parrots who would end up with toe-tapping and wing-flipping due to a pellet diet configured for other parrots and, therefore, far too rich for the digestive system of an ekkie. But it was another member who had pointed out that it's not pellets or supplements themselves that cause these issues in ekkies, but rather OVER supplementation. Or in the case of pellets, OVER enrichment. His argument being that the brands causing these issues in eclectus parrots were not specifically designed FOR eclectus parrots. And that he used a diet program by renowned avian vet Rob Marshall designed SPECIFICALLY for ekkies.

Now, I don't claim to have any experience with either Rob Marshall's diet program or with the Paradise Pellets that you prefer, Skylala. But I did have to admit that I couldn't flat out state that no pellet brand could POSSIBLY provide all that an ekkie would need while avoiding the dreaded ekkie sensitivities. Not without a team of researchers, a generous cross sampling of pellets, a massive budget and a mother load of ekkies, anyway. Lol!

Hence the revision of my earlier stance. But what I CAN say with all certainty is that my ekkies have all thrived on a natural diet. So I know a varied natural diet works and works well.

My dearly departed Bixby, whose blood values were perfect despite having been born with PDD.


Lady Maya



Sir Jolly




And examples of the fresh food chop provided.


And sprouts!