Some questions about my new quaker

[MrBasilisk]

Hi there, folks. I'll preface this by apologizing in case the answers to my questions seem a bit obvious; my dad bought a (month-old) quaker bird recently, and I've been frantically trying to learn as much as I can through resources on the web.

Anyway, the bird was thankfully well-tamed when we got him three days ago. I'm a bit worried, though, since my dad has the habit of wanting to pick the bird up this early. We've been doing it since the first day. Once the bird's on our hand or finger, it's perfectly fine. So...

1. Does the way another person act influence the way the bird will see me? I ask because I've tried my best to be accommodating and friendly to the bird before deliberately trying to pick him up. I sit by his little box and talk and sing to him. I want the bird to at least feel safe around me, but I'll fear he'll come to view my hand the same way he does my dad (I see it try to edge away from my dad's hand whenever he's close, so I assume the bird doesn't have a favorable view). Keep in mind my dad doesn't grab it, either, the bird just needs a little goading to get on his hand. Also, how do I get it to trust my hand (at least) so it can get atop it without having to force it?

2. Pepe (the bird) has some odd body language that I can't really find a meaning for, so maybe you all could help. He likes to shake his tail a lot (is this universally a good thing? I've read somewhere they need to do it again in a safe environment before it's safe to assume they're content). One weird thing he does is he'll shake his head (like a dog shakes water off it as opposed to him saying no). He also silently opens and closes his beak a lot (as if he were trying to talk without noise). When my dad quickly went up to kiss him (a big no-no, or so I've heard), Pepe raised the feathers around the back of his neck for a few seconds. Is this an indication of fear or anger or something? Finally, whenever I try to give him a petting, he lowers his head so it's directly level with his body. Is he trying to tell me to go on, or to stop? From my eyes, it could be either.

Again, I want to make sure I understand everything Pepe is telling me so I can know how best to handle him.

3. Pepe is learning to fly, and he seems to like it. If there's one thing I want to try to convince my dad of (since I know I'll never manage to get him to heed my advice entirely), it's to not clip the hapless bird's wings. Why does Pepe try to fly away? Is it because he's trying to get away from us, or because he's just curious about something in the distance? If I do end up letting him out one day, and he flies somewhere and doesn't want to come down, what can I do to help him in the least stressful way possible?

Thanks for reading. I know I still I have a lot left to learn about these pets, but hopefully with your help I can get an idea of how to make my bird as happy and healthy as can be.

 

[BEWolf]

Based on the way you are talking, I am guessing that you are a minor. I am also guessing that your bird doesn't have a cage, and if that is true then you really need to come up with one because a box is not a suitable home for your bird.

Do not force your bird as you are not gaining any trust from Pepe by doing this. Instead try putting your hand near him in his box, unless he starts getting nervous and moves away, while you are singing and talking to him and let him come to your hand and step up on it all by himself. This will help him learn he can trust you and be less fearful of you and your hand.
I don't know about the tail shaking, I don't have a Quaker, But the thing with his beak may be him working out how to make sounds similar to talking, the shaking of the head, like saying no, my Grey does it when happy to see me and the raised feathers as you describe is anger/ irritation.
Please do not clip his wings as it is not good for them either physically or psychologically, also don't let him fly unless he is in an enclosed place that he can not escape from, or you will lose him. You have had him for 3 days, he doesn't know you and has no reason to trust you, that is something that you have to earn. That is why he is trying to fly away.
I don't know what you are feeding him but he needs to have fresh fruits and veggies, never feed avocado or uncooked beans, they are toxic. keep him away from the kitchen and the fumes from Teflon, such as nonstick skillets, as this will kill him. He may not eat a variety of fruit and veggies at first and you may have to get really creative when trying to give him a good diet. Example : Pepe will not eat small chunks of apple, try grated apple or slices, Pepe like mashed apples.

 

[Sterling1113]

Sounds like you've been doing good so far- not pushing anything and just talking to him. I'm sure he loves it when you sing to him.

As mentioned above, make sure he is in a suitable cage with appropriate toys/perches. This is good for his physical health, being able to play and stretch his wings, and mental health in preventing boredom which can lead to less desirable behaviors.

The way your dad treats him *may* influence his view of people. However , if you have done nothing bad to this bird and only gave him good company and a nice conversation parter, I hardly think he would hold your dads actions against you. Birds are good at telling different people apart.

How old is he? The tail flicking is normal, my conures do it. It's also normal in younger birds. The open mouth could either be yawning (my birds tend to yawn multiple times consecutively, it's silly and adorable.) or if it's a head bobbing motion he could be bringing food up from his crop and eating it. Unless he starts to vomit or show difficulty in breathing I would worry too much.

The kissing, though you'll read it's a no-no because of the bacteria in our mouths, is still a common gesture from people to their birds. My fids preen my hair, lick my hands, face, etc so kisses are not my biggest worry for them. Everyone is different though and if you feel uncomfortable having anyone put their mouth on your bird no one will pick on you for it. We all understand.

The ruffled nape (neck feathers) could be good or bad. My birds fluff their nape/head/face feathers when I'm scratching them and they like it, usually if the fluffed feathers are accompanied by an open beak, hissing noise, or a haunched-over, ready-to-strike appearance it would be aggression. Reading the body language of your bird is important, and you'll pick up on his little quirks soon enough.

It is important to let them lean how to fly, as it helps build muscle and confidence! Just make sure ceiling fans are off, windows/glass doors are closed and covered, and mirrors are either turned away or covered. With enough patience he won't feel the need to fly from you. He just has to learn humans are friends, not predators!

Hope I helped. Best of luck with your new friend.


Edit: I just saw you included the age. Disregard any questions in my post relevant to that. However at a month old I'm very concerned that he should still be on a hand feeding formula, are you(or your father) experienced in this? Babies go downhill fast if you can't see the little signs of an unhealthy bird. I recommend you have an avian vet or professional breeder to contact if someone else needs to take over until he is weaned.

 

[MrBasilisk]

Hello, BEWolf, thanks for your reply!

Most of the tips you mentioned I was aware of from my frantic article reading, but it's good to have confirmation.

Like I said, despite not liking to be picked up, Pepe acts perfectly reasonable once on someone's hand. He likes to look around (sometimes at the person picking him up!) and that's the point where most of his body language comes from. One of the few things my dad actually HAS listened to me about is teaching Pepe the 'step up' command. And for everything that poor bird has gone through, he's taking to the command really well. He pretty much knows more or less what we want when we say it and have a nearby finger/hand nearby.

On this note, whenever I try to pet his head (as a reward or otherwise), he has this habit of lowering his head so it's level with his body. Is this acceptance or a way of trying to get away from my finger? To my eyes it could really be either...

Thankfully I have some quality time with him in the morning, so I'll try to put your suggestions to the test then.

Oh, and I'm no minor, haha. Just a university student heading home for the summer since his dorm closes down then. If I mentioned my dad too much it was to express the actions he does which I disagree with.

 

[MonicaMc]

Have you looked into positive reinforcement trainers such as Barbara Heidenreich (Good Bird Inc) and Lara Joseph? Both have great blogs worth reading and Barbara even has some short videos worth watching on Yotuube!

 

[MrBasilisk]

Hi there, MonicaMc. I haven't head of either of those blogs but I'll be sure to check them out. I have a basic understanding about how reinforcement (both positive and negative) work in theory, and I (will continue to) try and put my ideas to the test with Pepe.

One blogger I am interested in is Michael Sazhin, otherwise known as the Parrot Wizard. He's got a large amount of blog posts that started with him bringing in a new bird home and went off from there. He has plenty of videos of his tips on YouTube as well, and you can tell from there how happy and well-trained his parrots are. He's also current and goes into detail about the pleasures of bird-owning while not shying away from the negatives (although it's a bit too late to heed some of that advice now, haha). All these points have made me trusting and attentive to his advice.

Anyway, Pepe should be getting his cage today. I'll bring home a clicker as well to help with reinforcing good behaviors (and maybe teach it a thing or two along the way, hah).

 

[Sterling1113]

Honestly you'd be much better off with some of the names Monica listed than the 'parrot wizard'. His training methods are frowned upon by a large group and honestly he doesn't have the experience it takes to be considered a professional. I suppose as long as you stay away from anything he has to say about weight management it wouldn't be so bad, but there's definitely much better trainers out there who are far more experienced. That's just my opinion though.

 

[MonicaMc]

I agree with Sterling. Michael uses food deprivation to create motivation for training, something I do not agree with. There's food management, weight management, then what Michael (and Bird Tricks) is (are) doing that professional trainers highly frown upon.


Michael is a novice, an amateur trainer. He does have some good advice, I'll admit that, but he doesn't seem to fully grasp everything that he's doing and teaching to others. (I'm more than willing to admit that I don't either! just, the more I'm learning about training, the more I can see what not to do!)

 

[MrBasilisk]

I figured as much. I definitely plan to take a look at some of the other posted blogs to get more opinions about a particular topic. I've read a whole lot of stuff (some of it even contradictory), so it's in my best interest to double-check everything I read, and so the more informed opinions the better.

I'm mainly sticking to the basics for now (that is, getting Pepe into the habit of understanding what I want and can offer him by way of conditioning and reinforcement, or put simply: showing him that he can trust me), so for the moment Mike's tips shouldn't lead me too astray. It's difficult not to like his down-to-earth disposition, and at least I can't argue with his results!

Now for some important updates.

We got Pepe into his cage a few days ago. Unfortunately he's making a habit of using his troughs as perches that he doesn't want to come down from. I don't think he likes the grilles that serve as the bottom of his cage very much. I think I'm going to try removing the troughs and putting them back when it's feeding time so he learns the floor isn't so scary. It's dangerous to keep things as-is because he does like to walk on his food (and possibly even poop in it).

He's comfortable enough with my presence (to the point where it seems he's apathetic to my voice, hah), but he doesn't like my hand very close to him (he'll edge away or lunge forward as if to bite if I get within touching distance). I've been trying to feed him millet spray with my hand but he doesn't seem all that interested. He'll take one or two tentative bites and go back to staying still. I definitely don't ever want to try and grab him, so I hope he'll learn to trust me with continued exposure of this sort.

He's also picking at himself a lot. I understand it's because he's bored (or, god forbid, sick), yeah? It's hard to get him to do anything when he doesn't want to move or come out or use his toys (a colorful ball and a bell next to his perch). It's only been two days (counting today) since he got in his new cage, so maybe he's still adjusting?

Thanks for the continued help, everyone.

 

[MonicaMc]

Can you perhaps share a picture with us????


Because if this quaker is a month old, he/she should be eating formula.


If the quaker is weaned (not eating formula and not desiring formula), then the "picking" behavior you see should just be him preening himself.

 

[MrBasilisk]

A picture? Of what, in particular?

Pepe is still on formula. He takes it twice a day. Unfortunately no one in my family is a professional, but the bird eats the stuff relatively fine. Understand that everything my dad does is recommended by the people we bought Pepe from. We keep some seeds as well as millet spray in his cage in order for him to practice eating things on his own. He seems much more interested in the seeds over the spray, though.

He's been exploring more of his cage since yesterday, and even managed to fly up to one of the lower perches. Whenever I sit by him for a while, he starts flapping his wings at me (which means he's either exercising or shooing me away, right?). I continued trying to hold the millet spray in my hand for him to try, and he spent a good while standing still. Eventually he did come over and get some, but then he actively sought out my fingers to bite, haha. I just let him.

Will keep trying later.

 

[MonicaMc]

A picture of the cage, so perhaps we could give some recommendations on how to set the cage up? Plus a picture of your quaker?

 

[MrBasilisk]

Okay, it should be attached. The cage is placed pretty much near the living room, generally the most populated area of the house.

*sigh* I wish I never learned anything about bird body language. It's so difficult to read what Pepe wants, especially since some of the things he does could mean different things. Just now I tried to give him another millet spray, and he spent most of his time flapping his wings at me. Eventually, he started walking up to the cage entrance where my fingers were, totally stepping over the millet spray (it was kind of in his way so he just kept trying to get closer). He began bobbing his head at me and I was worried he might fly out (and potentially straight at me) so I left (I held the cage door open with my fingers holding the spray inside the cage. I never tried moving my fingers any closer to him, instead letting him come to me...

And just now my mom coming home says he lunged at her... >.>

 

[MonicaMc]

As per the photo, your quaker is definitely older than a month!


I would toss the wooden dowels in the cage and replace them with natural perches and rope perches.

Add in some smaller foot toys for your quaker to play with and add in more toys.



I am concerned though about your quaker being on the cage bottom. Can you get a gram scale and weigh Pepe in grams?

 

[MrBasilisk]

If so, then that's a surprise to me. Everything I know about his age came from my dad who did most of the earlier visits to the place where we got him.

He is usually on the bottom, but he's flown to the perches and back down before. I'll see about the toys and perches, but getting him out of the cage to get weighed will be a hassle in and of itself. Do you have any suggestions for his apparent temperament and how I can go about gaining his trust?

Maybe I was just reading all the signs negatively (as is my wont, I'll bring the first to admit). Maybe the wing flapping in my presence signified a desire for attention. Maybe the biting of my finger was just playful. Maybe him approaching to the front of the cage entrance and subsequent head bobbing were a desire to be picked up. Maybe my mother exaggerated when she said Pepe lunged at her hand. But all those look like baaad signs to me.

 

[MonicaMc]

Quakers aren't weaned until they are 2+ months old.

If your quaker is a month old, then he should still be eating formula, not solid food!


Unweaned chicks do often remain down low in the cage as they aren't quite steady enough to perch.




I'm concerned because of two things that I'm not clear on....

1. You have an unweaned chick
   • If Pepe is unweaned, then Pepe should be eating hand feeding formula!
2. You potentially have a sick bird
   • If Pepe is in fact weaned, then Pepe should not be on the cage floor!

It may be a good idea to either take Pepe back or get him to an avian vet! And please, if you can, weigh him! He should weigh 90-120 grams (or more).



BTW, here are pictures of some young quakers.

http://mylittledarlings.homestead.com/aquaquakers.html

 

[MrBasilisk]

Sorry for all the trouble, Monica. I get the feeling I'm not explaining myself very well (I've even gone and confused myself), so let me try again:

Pepe's still being fed formula twice a day. The seed and water troughs you noticed in the picture aren't his real food, just things for him to pick at if he's curious. I've seen him eating some seeds a few times, but he's never touched the water to my knowledge.

 

[MonicaMc]

That helps then! Sorry, kind of worried! There's been a couple of people who have bought young birds recently and lost them.

One of the worst things any person can do, breeder, pet store or anyone else for that matter, is to sell someone an unweaned chick that has no previous experience raising birds! And I don't mean just keeping them, but physically hand raising an unweaned bird! So many birds have died due to inexperienced hand feeders!


And it's still a good idea to have a gram scale on hand to ensure your bird is growing and gaining weight as he or she should be!

 

[MrBasilisk]

Hi Monica. Believe me, I understand how you feel, especially when I watched my dad hand feed him for the first time. Pepe didn't like it at first, but now he's a lot more responsive to the feelings, and actually opens his mouth by himself to eat!

He's also starting to climb atop his perches more, though he doesn't try flying, to the point where he starts climbing the grilles using his beak and feet! I call him a Monk(ey) Parakeet as a result, haha.

We've doubled his toy count as you suggested, though I think he's still afraid of all the new stuff since I haven't seen him play with them. I've managed to convince my dad to give him a pelleted diet, so next week we'll begin the ardorous process of removing him from his seed fix and into pellets. He really likes seed, which is at least good because he has no problem eating it from my hand, so it'll make a great treat!

He's sleeping right now. Hearing his little teeth grinding brought tears to my eyes. I'm really glad to know he feels safe and happy with all of us.

I guess you can call this sort of a happy ending, but after every end there's the beginning of something else, so who knows what the future has in store for little Pepe? I'll try my best to keep it at good things.

 

[Allee]

Hello there and a warm welcome to you and Pepe. I just read this thread for the first time. I couldn't tell from the photo how old Pepe is, from your description and information he sounds very young. You mentioned weighing Pepe, one trick is to weigh a clean plastic bowl, put holes in the sides and lid, put Pepe inside, weigh the bowl with Pepe inside and subtract the weight of the bowl, he may not like it much, but you'll know his weight.
Quakers are close to my heart for two reasons, one reason is Harry, the other is Zeke. They are polar opposites as far as personality and I am nuts about both of them. From personal experience, Quakers are a bit slower to accept new foods, toys, and situations. The behavior you described where your bird is shaking, considering your bird's age, sounds like Pepe is begging for food. Quaking is a common behavior even in some adult quakers. The ruffled feathers on the back of the head, in my female's case means, back off. In Pepe's case I would concentrate on his diet and his health more than interpreting his body language for the time being. Relax and get to know your little friend, have fun, be safe and enjoy his company. Just for fun, look just above Pepe's beak and you will find a tiny dimple or swirl of feathers similar to a human cowlick. Smile, your parrot has a dimple. Quakers are great, in a few more months Pepe will tell you everything you need to know about how to take care of him. Take advantage of Pepe's age and get him started on a healthy diet before he grows opinionated. Introduce healthy foods and keep offering until he tries them. Both my quakers love organic pellets soaked in apple juice or water until soft, they consider it a special treat. Please be very careful when you allow Pepe to fly, they are very awkward until they get the hang of it. I wish you and Pepe the best and can't wait to see photos and hear about his progress.