Snowy is very ill but probably going to lay an egg as well!😬

[BirdyBee]

I just came home from vacation, and I noticed Snowy's poop is VERY big, like 10+ times her normal size. Some weeks before vacation, I started to notice hormonal/nesting behaviour in her, so I decided to do something(long overdue): isolate her and Sunny from the males to prevent breeding and hormonal behaviour. I only let her out with the males if I'm in the bird room.

Her vent is swollen, and her poops are 10+ times her normal size, and her breathing became even more laboured than usual(she has a breathing issue)... my mom is going to try arrange a vet visit tomorrow(we can't arrange one today because it is Sunday) just to make sure that:
1. It is an egg, and not a blockage
2. If it is an egg, that she isn't egg bound
3. She also has a breathing issue that needs to be seen by a vet(for the third time!!)

Is there anything I need to know? If she does lay eggs, is it OK if I give her a nest, and take the eggs out(if unfertilized) one by one and replace with fake eggs, until she has no interest in them?

Here are some pics of her vent..(sorry that I held you so badly Snowy)

TIA for any help.

Edit: for more info, snowy is a female budgie who is about 1 year 9 months (I got her in august 2020 at about 4 weeks)

 

[BirdyBee]

I know you guys aren't vets, I'm seeing a vet ASAP, but I want to know, what can I do to help Snowy? She has had breathing issues for as long as I had her, and I've had her seen by a vet multiple times but it didn't help... I am bringing her to a new vet. And she will have times where she just vomits and struggles to breath very badly, I haven't had her seen by a vet yet. She has been ill for a long time but she didn't see a vet.

I I know I should've taken her to a vet earlier, but since I'm a minor I need permission from mom.. and I usually pay for most of the visit..

Can you guys please give me advice on how to keep her stable until she sees a vet, and/or what I can do to help her? TIA

-Anè

 

[Ria.345]

I'm so sorry that snowy is not feeling good and is having breathing difficulties.
It's hard to do anything for such circumstances but keep the room well ventilated if you can, maybe open some windows? Or keep the air purifier running (that is if you have one). Again, so sorry for snowys health at the moment, praying for you.

 

[BirdyBee]

I'm so sorry that snowy is not feeling good and is having breathing difficulties.
It's hard to do anything for such circumstances but keep the room well ventilated if you can, maybe open some windows? Or keep the air purifier running (that is if you have one). Again, so sorry for snowys health at the moment, praying for you.

Thank you so much, Ria. I will open all the windows now, hopefully that'll help a bit.

 

[zERo]

You could try ginger tea, it relaxes respiratory muscles and reduces inflammation. I've only made it using powdered ginger but you can do it with fresh ginger too.

 

[foxgloveparrot]

I'm so sorry. I hope Snowy recovers soon!
Keep the room well-ventilated. Make sure she's comfortable, and hang in there until you can get her to a CAV. Best of luck, Pipp

 

[Laurasea]

Pipp,
I'm sorry to hear this..what a struggle to love and care but be handicapped by circumstances.

I'm very glad to hear a new veterinarian will have chance at helping and finding answers. I add my prayers for help and recovery ❤. As you know only a professional with hands on your bird an in person evaluation, testing, and their advanced training is going to be able to help and make a difference. Sometimes even for people ( me currently) it can take several visits and different doctors to find answers.

But if you give me Snowys history I will try to help as best I can from my experience. Sorry...on phone not easy for me to see species, and I forget and confuse ....
So species, age, sex, time you've had, diet, symptoms, duration, what has bern tried, any past treatments and any effects those had. Pictures of bird, including one close up of eyes, nare, problem areas, and poops.

 

[BirdyBee]

I'll try send some images of her tomorrow.

Snowy is a female budgie, I got her in august of 2020. Her diet consists of mainly veg(though she had only pellets while I was on holiday), seeds, pellets(roudybush), and I sometimes feed sprouts and a flower mix, I add dried herbs over her chop when I serve it to her. She gets eggs about 2-3 times a month.

For the medication, I can't remember the types... I gave her antibiotics(a pink pill that needed to be cruched, mixed with water/ and honey/yoghurt(optional) anti-fungal medicine(a capsule that had to be cut open and added to water),she has been on "crop treatment" before(prescribed by a vet) and the vet also gave probiotics once, she reccomends giving it daily, but I haven't given it in a long time, do you think it's a good idea to give it to my flock daily? My vet thinks it is. I'll try figure out what meds I used with her and I'll come back to you. She had no side effects on any or those.

 

[HeatherG]

That looks like an egg is waiting.
Breathing hard seems to go along with being “with egg.” Also big, possibly smelly poops; a puffy vent area and relaxed cloaca, and the bird choosing a substitute place for a nest, like the food dish or corner of cage or…

Is Snowy eating and drinking? Does she appear ok? It takes time for the egg to move down to the cloaca and be pushed out. After that, I would let her sit on the egg. Cockatiels like a certain number of eggs in their nest, if you take them away she will just lay more. This is why you leave the eggs in the cage. When she gets enough eggs in the nest to satisfy her (about 4) she will stop growing more eggs and just sit on them for a few weeks.

Unfortunately, even if all goes well, you won’t have your fun pet for a month or so. She needs to incubate these eggs and get it out of her system. Hopefully after Snowy sits for a while and the eggs are not developing chicks, she will get bored and leave them.

This is hard on Snowy’s body and she needs to have plenty of food and water available. She won’t want to play. It’s like getting pregnant and giving birth quickly, four times in a row. (Egg-nant?).

If Snowy starts to appear unwell, call your vet. By that I mean if she’s pushing and no egg comes out, if she’s depressed and very quiet, can’t hold her head up, weak. She does need to keep eating and drinking so at least watch for the food to go away or put some within reach of her ‘nest’.

I would not give Snowy a nest; she is already in breeding condition without one. If she lays eggs you can leave them or replace with dummy eggs. Just let her sit on some eggs until she’s done.

 

[BirdyBee]

That looks like an egg is waiting.
Breathing hard seems to go along with being “with egg.” Also big, possibly smelly poops; a puffy vent area and relaxed cloaca, and the bird choosing a substitute place for a nest, like the food dish or corner of cage or…

Is Snowy eating and drinking? Does she appear ok? It takes time for the egg to move down to the cloaca and be pushed out. After that, I would let her sit on the egg. Cockatiels like a certain number of eggs in their nest, if you take them away she will just lay more. This is why you leave the eggs in there. When she gets enough to satisfy her she will stop growing more eggs and just sit for a few weeks.

Unfortunately, even if all goes well, you won’t have your fun pet for a month or so. She needs to incubate these and get it out of her system. Hopefully after Snowy sits for a while and the eggs are not developing chicks, she will get bored and leave them.

This is hard on her body and she needs to have plenty of food and water available. She won’t want to play. It’s like getting pregnant and giving birth quickly, four times in a row. (Egg-nant?).

If she starts to appear unwell, call your vet. By that I mean if she’s pushing and no egg will come out. She does need to keep eating and drinking so at least watch for the food to go away or put some within reach of her ‘nest’.

I would not give her a nest; she is already in breeding condition without one. If she lays eggs you can leave them or replace with dummy eggs. Just let her sit on some eggs until she’s done.

I don't know if she's eating/drinking as usual, because I was on holiday and I couldn't see any of her behaviour. So far it seems she is still eating, I haven't caught her drinking yet but I haven't kept an eye on her 24/7 and I've only been back for an evening. I have no idea for how long her vent has been swollen this badly, but it was a little bit swollen before I was on vacation.

I really hope the eggs are infertile, because I do NOT want more birds, and I'll likely need to rehome some of them I heard mature budgies can get anywhere from 3-8 eggs!!

I starter noticing odd behaviour a while ago. I had a "foraging bag" in her cage, and she'd go hide in it! Definitely nesting behaviour! And she was starting to get bigger droppings and ate more, which was a bit of a warning sign for me. So far, she doesn't eat a lot less and she doesn't seem de-hydrated.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it a lot! I will not give her a nest, it'll probably make her lay more eggs.

 

[Laurasea]

Pipp,
What are all of her symptoms?

You mentioned chronic respiratory . Besides possibly fungal, or bacterial. Is air sac mites these are way more common in budgies and finches and budgies that have ever been housed with finches , than other parrots. Bring this up and ask your veterinarian when you see them.

SNOWY, I'm think the name is linked with her color. White /albino/ dilution mutations are sometimes linked with lower immunity or other health issues, in numerous species including horses, some dog breeds, burds ect.

Chronic egg layers are put under a huge nutritional strain. 3 times a month is burning her body up. This also lowers her immunity allowing secondary invaders, malnutrition, health, feather issues. It can also be a complex issue to solve. Read up and try everything. Also discuss in your upcoming vet visit. https://www.petcoach.co/article/excessive-or-chronic-egg-laying-in-birds-causes-effects-and
( I'm sure you've read and done your own searches, but doesn't hurt to include in your thread)

Thank goodness you feed pellets and veggies as well as seeds. She might need a little more fats, protein, and calcium, as this egg laying is 2-3 x the drain on her. Calcium can be found in some veggies as well as her pellets. But be sure ( you probably already do) a cuttlefish bone, bird mineral block are always available. Id offer boiled egg shells a great source and even my male budgies eat them from time to time. Calcium absorption is linked with vitamin D, pellets will have, but sunshine is how they make naturally. So safe time outside when you can, the benefits are achieved even in light shade you don't have to stick them in full sun, and you should not put them in full sun without access to shade. Never leave them un supervision..15 minutes a day ideal, a half hour a couple of times a week still helping, any time at all you are able once a week once a month better than nothing.
So you might need to bump pellets and seeds a little for more calories and protein than veggies have.
Can you weigh her?

 

[HeatherG]

Hi, do you have a boy bird in with Snowy? If you do, the eggs may be fertile. If no boy bird, they definitely will not be fertile.

Dehydration: Birds’ eyes get sunken in and look smaller if they haven’t been drinking. Likely if snowy is able to go eat, she’s able to drink.

When a hen bird is going to lay eggs soon, the vent area gets very puffy and the cloaca or vent itself relaxes so an egg can come out. Shortly before the egg is laid, it will feel very obvious that an egg is in her lower belly. (You will probably be able to SEE an egg through her light skin.)

Snowy can’t just STOP laying eggs because likely there are a few more behind the first one, maturing. The bird ovary is kind of like a grape cluster, where one egg (grape) comes to maturity at a time. The next one is growing big, two days or so behind the first one.

A normal cockatiel clutch size is 4-6 eggs, I think. I have read it is 4-8 eggs but 4-6 is more normal. I think she will get more puffy around her vent before she lays. But I think you’re right that an egg is coming.

You are welcome to ask me any questions you need as I’m sure you’re a bit worried about Snowy. I am a zoologist and studied birds in particular.

I bet Snowy felt like the foraging bag was a nest. When I had a girl bird (Lucy), I had to be careful she couldn’t get to newspaper to shred it or she’d get nesty. She would also incubate things that were egg shaped or close (like a tiny rubber duck I gave her). So I had to be careful because she loved me and I’m sure would want to make eggs for me, just like Snowy does for you.

If you have no boy bird, the eggs will be sterile. You must have a boy bird to get baby birds. The egg and sperm get mixed together inside the mother bird and then she lays a fertile egg. Then she sits on it for 3-4 weeks and the baby grows inside until it is big enough to hatch.

Hopefully you can just keep Snowy well and not let her have the whole foraging bag after she gets done with this egg cycle. I’m fact I would not let her have any shreddable things for a long time, so she doesn’t get confused again.

 

[Laurasea]

General run down on common health issues by species https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/common-conditions-of-birds

 

[Laurasea]

Information on respiratory systems, and air sac mites

Why all the fuss about Air-sac Mites - Laraine McGinnis | Laraine's Lady Gouldians

A guide to air sac mites in Lady Gouldian finches, where they come from, when and how they procreate, and treatment options to eradicate them.

ladygouldian.com

Air Sac Mites

Air Sac Mites like Prevention, Symptoms, Diagnosis, and Treatment Options, all this information you can get on the Beauty of Birds with Vets information.

www.beautyofbirds.com

 

[Laurasea]

Snowy is very ill but probably going to lay an egg as well!😬

I just came home from vacation, and I noticed Snowy's poop is VERY big, like 10+ times her normal size. Some weeks before vacation, I started to notice hormonal/nesting behaviour in her, so I decided to do something(long overdue): isolate her and Sunny from the males to prevent breeding and...

www.parrotforums.com

 

[HeatherG]

I see Laurasea has linked that Snowy has had chronic respiratory problems. That suggests it’s probably not just hard breathing because Snowy’s pushing an egg out.

In that case, I am glad you are taking her to the vet tomorrow. Making eggs is hard on her body. Respiratory issues are hard on her body. This is two stressors that make things more difficult. She really does not need two challenges together.

I hope that the vet can help her out and you can get done with this egg business and go back to normal.

 

[HeatherG]

I see Laurasea linked about Snowy’s concerning respiratory symptoms; that they’ve been happening for a long time. So, she’s not just having heavy breathing because she’s pushing out an egg. I am sorry to hear that. That is two problems instead of one to be dealt with.

You said in your other thread that snowy normally has seeds pellets and veggies, but you were on vacation so she only had veggies. Maybe that change to a richer and more caloric diet helped set off her egg laying. Certainly having a fun foraging bag to hide in would contribute, too.

I read your other thread and people have given good suggestions. Keeping her warm enough and having plenty of food and water available will be really helpful. I would not handle her much but let her be calm and take her to the vet tomorrow.

I will be thinking of you and your birds.

 

[BirdyBee]

I see Laurasea linked about Snowy’s concerning respiratory symptoms; that they’ve been happening for a long time. So, she’s not just having heavy breathing because she’s pushing out an egg. I am sorry to hear that. That is two problems instead of one to be dealt with.

You said in your other thread that snowy normally has seeds pellets and veggies, but you were on vacation so she only had veggies. Maybe that change to a richer and more caloric diet helped set off her egg laying. Certainly having a fun foraging bag to hide in would contribute, too.

I read your other thread and people have given good suggestions. Keeping her warm enough and having plenty of food and water available will be really helpful. I would not handle her much but let her be calm and take her to the vet tomorrow.

I will be thinking of you and your birds.

I meant that she had only pellets, as only veg isn't a good idea. I hopefully will be able to take her to a vet today/tomorrow/Wednesday but it all depends on wether there is a vet available or not and wether mom will be busy

Hi, do you have a boy bird in with Snowy? If you do, the eggs may be fertile. If no boy bird, they definitely will not be fertile.

I separated her a few weeks ago from boys.

Dehydration: Birds’ eyes get sunken in and look smaller if they haven’t been drinking. Likely if snowy is able to go eat, she’s able to drink.

When a hen bird is going to lay eggs soon, the vent area gets very puffy and the cloaca or vent itself relaxes so an egg can come out. Shortly before the egg is laid, it will feel very obvious that an egg is in her lower belly. (You will probably be able to SEE an egg through her light skin.)

Snowy can’t just STOP laying eggs because likely there are a few more behind the first one, maturing. The bird ovary is kind of like a grape cluster, where one egg (grape) comes to maturity at a time. The next one is growing big, two days or so behind the first one.

A normal cockatiel clutch size is 4-6 eggs, I think. I have read it is 4-8 eggs but 4-6 is more normal. I think she will get more puffy around her vent before she lays. But I think you’re right that an egg is coming.

Snowy is a budgie, what is the normal amount for them?

You are welcome to ask me any questions you need as I’m sure you’re a bit worried about Snowy. I am a zoologist and studied birds in particular.

Thanks a lot!

I bet Snowy felt like the foraging bag was a nest. When I had a girl bird (Lucy), I had to be careful she couldn’t get to newspaper to shred it or she’d get nesty. She would also incubate things that were egg shaped or close (like a tiny rubber duck I gave her). So I had to be careful because she loved me and I’m sure would want to make eggs for me, just like Snowy does for you.

I'm also sure she thought it was a nice and cosy nest to go lay eggs in! LOL!

If you have no boy bird, the eggs will be sterile. You must have a boy bird to get baby birds. The egg and sperm get mixed together inside the mother bird and then she lays a fertile egg. Then she sits on it for 3-4 weeks and the baby grows inside until it is big enough to hatch.

How long does it take after fertilization for budgies to fall "pregnant"? I am worried that while she was out the cage and I left for a while, that she might've mated with the boys..

Hopefully you can just keep Snowy well and not let her have the whole foraging bag after she gets done with this egg cycle. I’m fact I would not let her have any shreddable things for a long time, so she doesn’t get confused again.

I threw away that foraging back so that it doesn't encourage hormones, and I'll remove her shredding toy now! Thanks for the advice!

 

[BirdyBee]

Pipp,
What are all of her symptoms?

You mentioned chronic respiratory . Besides possibly fungal, or bacterial. Is air sac mites these are way more common in budgies and finches and budgies that have ever been housed with finches , than other parrots. Bring this up and ask your veterinarian when you see them.

SNOWY, I'm think the name is linked with her color. White /albino/ dilution mutations are sometimes linked with lower immunity or other health issues, in numerous species including horses, some dog breeds, burds ect.

Yes, she's a white DF spangle female. Her symptoms are vomiting, breathing difficulty, lethargy, I think that's it.

Chronic egg layers are put under a huge nutritional strain. 3 times a month is burning her body up. This also lowers her immunity allowing secondary invaders, malnutrition, health, feather issues. It can also be a complex issue to solve. Read up and try everything. Also discuss in your upcoming vet visit. https://www.petcoach.co/article/excessive-or-chronic-egg-laying-in-birds-causes-effects-and
( I'm sure you've read and done your own searches, but doesn't hurt to include in your thread)

Thanks for the link, it is very useful! She has never laid an egg, hopefully she'll be fine.

Thank goodness you feed pellets and veggies as well as seeds. She might need a little more fats, protein, and calcium, as this egg laying is 2-3 x the drain on her. Calcium can be found in some veggies as well as her pellets. But be sure ( you probably already do) a cuttlefish bone, bird mineral block are always available. Id offer boiled egg shells a great source and even my male budgies eat them from time to time. Calcium absorption is linked with vitamin D, pellets will have, but sunshine is how they make naturally. So safe time outside when you can, the benefits are achieved even in light shade you don't have to stick them in full sun, and you should not put them in full sun without access to shade. Never leave them un supervision..15 minutes a day ideal, a half hour a couple of times a week still helping, any time at all you are able once a week once a month better than nothing.
So you might need to bump pellets and seeds a little for more calories and protein than veggies have.
Can you weigh her?

I will try to weigh her, I didn't do it for a long time... her normal weight is anywhere from 38-41g, so she is a light budgie. I'll weigh her now.

 

[HeatherG]

Oops, I meant that she had only pellets, as you wrote.

Also oops, I thought at first snowy was your cockatiel. Thought I got all the mistakes out after I figured it out but I did not.

I have not bred budgies. I would guess that more typical # eggs is 4-6 eggs per clutch.

Hmm. I can’t recall if sperm can remain viable in the avian reproductive tract for two or three weeks. I would guess not. I would guess sperm could remain viable in the hen’s reproductive tract for at most a few days. I would need to look that up to be sure, though.

I think that the birds would need to mate after the egg had begun to ripen in the ovary and was ready to be released. So maybe mating 1-3 days before laying of the egg to get a fertile egg and eventually a baby bird? Again I would have to check to be sure.

Sorry that is all guesses; I think they’re very educated guesses but I would have to check to be sure of the answers. I was working with turkeys and chickens which are surprisingly like parrots, but not THE SAME. that’s the problem: so much more avian medical info exists for poultry but not for parrots.