Sidney

[JamesC]

Reluctantly, I have come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to clip Sidney. He has gone super aggressive on the conures again. I've been trying to deflect him and get him after his toys or treats and anything else that I can think of. But to no avail.

The thing that brought me to this decision was an attack a little earlier tonight. Tootsie and Rosco were quietly preening on their playpen and Sidney was on his cage munching on some Romaine lettuce. Suddenly he flew straight at them and took Rosco to the ground where he latched on and kept attacking. I had to grab both and pull them apart. No injuries to the birds, fortunately. But Sidney redirected and took a big chunk out of the back of my left thumb.

I would clip him tonight but I'm still a little too upset to deal with toweling him and clipping the wings. And I got to read up on how to do it again. It has been a while since I needed to do this.

I am really hoping that this settles him down some. Though if it is anything like he was when I first adopted him and he was clipped, I'll be chasing a running bird around the house who wants to dive into any dark & potentially dangerous place to be and explore.

I have never had this much trouble getting a handle on a bird's behavior before. But Sidney truly has me beat. And I'm getting frustrated with him. I'm honest with myself and admit that being in my home is probably not the best situation for him. He would be better of in a single bird home or one with physical separation between birds so that there is no interaction possible. No other pets. And with an owner who is experienced with strong willed birds who can spend a lot of time with him in training. I think he really needs to be challenged and constantly active. Keep that little brain of his working hard. I'm single and not home enough to be effective with it.

Rehoming is not something that I want to think about. But it might be on the table now. I'm not giving up on him. I swear to myself that I adopt for life. But if there is someone out there who can provide him a situation that he can thrive in, then I would let him go. I feel very bad even considering it. Especially knowing what I do about his earlier life. He deserves a forever home.

Hopefully the clip will make a positive change in his behavior and remove rehoming from consideration.

I can state with as much emotion as I can put into a pair of words, "This sucks."

 

[wrench13]

I hear you. Even thinking about rehoming is depressing. Have you tried separate 'out' time for the birds? Having you alone to himself may give your sennie what he is missing - you . Birds get jealous, oh yes they do. I would try that for awhile. Give Sidney a second chance.

 

[Tangie]

I don't know much about any of the Poicephalus species, but I just wanted to you to know that I'm thinking about your situation, and I am hoping it will get better!

But I definitely think a clipping is in order. Yes, it will be hard to keep him out of trouble, since he would be running around on the ground, but in all honesty I think it would be for the best. Feathers can grow back in no time, and by then things my turn back to normal. I think hormones may also be playing a large role in this behavior, possibly.

The only way that you may not have to clip him is letting the birds out at separate times. Let the conures out first for a while, then him, or the other way around. That way he wouldn't even have a chance to attack any of them.

I understand that you are thinking rehoming may be best for the bird's best interest, and not yours. That is great! However, just stick in there. Eventually things will get better. It just may take some more time to figure everything out with trial and error.

Buy some new, interesting toys, build a few playgyms, ect. Don't allow him to interact with ANY dark crevices or cavities. Change the amount of light, ect. Just keep working at it, and you will get there!

If things get severe, perhaps confine him to just several rooms and really really bird proof those areas and try and minimize those dark cavities and place toys and playgyms around.

 

[thekarens]

We're going through something similar with Zoe. As long as my wife is gone she's her old sweet self, but just as soon as she comes home Zoe bites the snot out of me and will purposely fly to me just to give me a good pinch. She's very close to getting her wings clipped, but for the moment she's staying in the cage when we're in the same room together.


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[EllenD]

The Senegals are stubborn, aren't they? Mine is a male, his name is Kane, and he was born in September so he's still a baby. I'm single but I have 2 dogs, a green cheek, a Quaker, a cockatiel, and several budgies...I will definitely say that after having Kane since November now, he is a very different bird than I've ever owned before. He's stubborn, possessive of me, his cage, his food, his toys, everything, and he wants what he wants all the time. If he doesn't get it he just keeps trying until he accomplishes whatever it is. He never wears out and he never gives in. I love him dearly but it is definitely a different situation than it was before he got here.

I keep all 4 bigger birds out when I'm home (the 7 budgies have an indoor aviary), their cages are all in my living room and dining room, which are connected. They each also have their own T-stands next to their cages, and I have one humongous play gym I built for them with a bunch of toys and foraging activities attached to it. The 3 smaller parrots get along well, in fact the green cheek and the Quaker are pretty bonded. Kane has so far kept to himself and not shown a bit of interest in the other birds at all, that is unless I'm holding one of them or they are on my shoulder and he can see it, etc. Then his jealousy kicks in and he starts making these baby sounds that start out cute but turn into screams...He's never attacked another bird, nor flown over to any of them, but I know it's coming...

I made a little move that helped a bit, my living room and dining room are connected, so I moved Kane's cage, which is the largest obviously, into the dining room. The other 3 are in the living room. Where he's at he has his cage, his play stand, can look out my sliding glass door, and most importantly he can see me sitting on the couch in the living room from his cage, but he can't see the other birds. He'll fly over to me all the time, but he no longer sees the other birds so it's almost like he forgets about them temporarily, until night night time upstairs in their sleeping cages. We'll see how long this lasts...But I totally understand where you're coming from.

I'd personally try to take some time with Sydney before I rehomed him, but that's easy for me to say, I'm not dealing with it....But you seem to really care about him and not like you really want to rehome him at all. I love that you're thinking of the bird's best interest, but honestly his best interest might be staying with you since you obviously care very much about him. I'd try the separate out of cage time thing, and maybe other people have some better suggestions as well. I may need them soon myself

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[Scott]

At times the most committed advocate of free-flight must confront the ultimate needs of safety and health. One of my Goffins, Gabby, recently had a nasty kerfuffle with one of his brothers that left a nasty gash in his beak and a bitten toe. Up till now I've been able to reliably sequester Gabby from the three other Goffins in his room, providing roughly equal time out of cage. Took him to the vet and diagnosed a low-grade infection thus far, pending fecal and throat culture results. My vet strongly encouraged a first-time ever wing clipping to help him heal and moderate his angst. He is now far more mellow and will be permanently placed in a separate room. His wings, of course, will grow back to give him the gift of flight.

It has been decades since I've had to clip any bird and hope to keep the offense minimal!

 

[BeatriceC]

Senegals are interesting little buggars, aren't they? Mine tries to bully the other birds, including the macaw. That was a lesson he won't soon forget. That was when we all found d out just how loud a macaw can screech (and thankfully she just gave a warning screech instead of attacking). Putting Leo's cage near a large window seemed to chill him out a lot, as well as having "alone" time with me every day. Also, keeping him busy learning new tricks helps keep him chilled out. I can definitely see a very noticibke change in his behavior on days I don't spend as much time keeping is little bird brain occupied.

 

[JamesC]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. He has gotten a bit of a reprieve today because I unexpectedly was away from home until the later hours of the evening. And now, of course, the second thoughts kick in. I still think that I'm going to clip him but for now he is going to get a partial clip. 3 or 4 primaries on each wing. I'm hoping that will give him a bit of a shock and slow him down some & make him work harder when he does fly and burn off more energy.

I would do the separate out time for the birds but I don't know if my ears and sanity can take it. Tootsie is an extremely vocal bird. And if I put her in her cage while I'm home, she...will...not...stop. It is a constant stream of her loudest calls in series. And because she is making noise, Rosco will chime in with a lot of "ME TOO!" calls. He has no clue what she is on about but he readily joins in. I've tried putting her in with Rosco, same result except that Rosco wants to mutual preen and picks at her to get her attention which just causes her to go off even more at a higher pitch. Nothing will quiet her down except to let her out.

I have their homes in separate rooms. Sid's used to be in what should be the dining room with the other two but that resulted in chaos. I thought he got hormonal then so I moved him into the living room. It is a darker room. Less light though still adequate for natural light since it faces south-east. He can't see the others except during the evening when they are out and perched on the playpen. And normally I keep the lights dimmed a little low so it would have a calming effect on them.

I have an idea I might try. Get a screen panel and figure out some way to mount it between his cage & the playpen. A bit of a visual barrier. And a soft barrier to bounce off of if he decides to go after them like he did last night.

As for re-homing him, a lot of that was frustration talking last night. But it could happen if I met, got to know, and built up a level of trust for the right person over weeks or months. He has been with me for over 5 years now so it is not easy to give him up. But if I felt that the person could provide a better environment for him I would let it happen. Though I would hope to be able to see him every once in a while.

BTW, I'm fairly certain that he is actually a she. I know that Senegals genders are very similar in shape and colors but there are a few (though not 100%) indicators that Sid is a female. Rounder head shape. All yellow covert feathers around the vent. And when hormonal, an almost constant need to do the down and dirty with my hand. I discourage that but sometimes wonder if I should just give in and get the energies out. No signs of that right now, though. One of these days I'll get him tested.

I sure wish I could get him to channel the spirit of my first Senegal. She was a total gentle darling. The most friendly and soothing bird I have ever adopted. Of course, knowing Sid and Senegals in general, he would probably attack her spirit too.

 

[RavensGryf]

I'm sorry you're having to go through this James. Sidney sounds like a Poicephalus for sure! Robin finally mellowed out and is the best bird now that I've ever had, but it took him about 20 years to get there.. maybe if you could stick it out that long, Sid will calm down too lol. Good luck with this.

 

[JamesC]

Yeah, he is certainly exhibiting the not so nice traits of the species currently. Right now he is locked up and swinging upside down while regaling me with the highest pitched screeches he has to let me know his displeasure. He started to get focused on the conures so in he went. I might put the conures to bed for the night soon and let him out. And hopefully he will behave. I had to work all weekend and have been home late for the past few nights. So they all haven't gotten enough time out which is not helping any. And it'll be the same for most of this week. Big company event. I hate locking them up so much.

 

[RavensGryf]

I know.. I hate locking mine up so much too, but I'm busy as well these days, so I can empathize. I'm hoping it will work out for Sidney if he comes out in shifts. That's what I have to do. It cuts down on each group's time out, but unfortunately have to.

 

[JamesC]

What I tried yesterday seemed to work ok. I let them all out and kept an eye on him. The moment he started to fixate on the conures, I swept him up and put him in his cage for a while until our normal birdie bed time. Put Tootsie and Rosco to bed, covered them and turned the light off in their room. Then I let Sid back out. He behaved himself fairly well. Did a lot of preening on my shoulder and covered it in feather dust and downy feathers. Gave him a lot of attention during that time. Tonight all are out. He was at his cage eating but just flew over to me. Is now sitting on my right shoulder grinding his beak occasionally even though the conures are about 3 feet away & above him. No sign of aggression....yet.... Here's hoping.

 

[EllenD]

At times the most committed advocate of free-flight must confront the ultimate needs of safety and health. One of my Goffins, Gabby, recently had a nasty kerfuffle with one of his brothers that left a nasty gash in his beak and a bitten toe. Up till now I've been able to reliably sequester Gabby from the three other Goffins in his room, providing roughly equal time out of cage. Took him to the vet and diagnosed a low-grade infection thus far, pending fecal and throat culture results. My vet strongly encouraged a first-time ever wing clipping to help him heal and moderate his angst. He is now far more mellow and will be permanently placed in a separate room. His wings, of course, will grow back to give him the gift of flight.

It has been decades since I've had to clip any bird and hope to keep the offense minimal!

I love "kerfuffle" (which autocorrect knew but I've never heard before ), I'll be using that now!

On the matter at hand, I have always been a bird owner that is a strong believer in wing clipping (outer primary feathers only) for either behavior modification/training, or for when a bird goes to its new home, whether it be a baby or an adult. I bred English budgies for years and years and I never clipped the babies I hand-raised until the new owners came to pick them up and I asked them if they wanted them clipped, as I firmly believe it's the owner's choice. They would typically ask my opinion, and I would tell them that I suggest it right at the moment when they go to their new home because even though they were hand-raised and tame, they were going to a new home, new environment, with new people and a new mommy and/or daddy. By clipping their wings they learn very quickly that they must rely on their new owner(s) for help getting around, and it's much easier to train a bird, especially one that wasn't hand-raised and isn't tame, if they can't constantly fly away from the person working with them. Also, the person working with them isn't spending all their time chasing the bird while it keeps flying away. This constant chasing works against earning the bird's trust in a big way. This works the same way with an adult bird that has behavioral problems, as it gives the person trying to train them, earn their trust, build a relationship with them again, etc. the upper hand. The person has control of the bird, and the bird must rely on the person and learns that the person isn't trying to hurt them but rather they learn the behaviors you're trying to start or stop, and they are completely focused on you because they can't just fly away at will.

I believe clipping an adult bird is a must if the bird is potentially a danger and is using flying to attack and hurt people or other birds/animals. This is just a safety concern, and it gives you the control to make the bird focus and learn, especially a stubborn bird like a Senegal.

Again, it's every individual's choice, but the feathers grow back quickly, it causes them no pain at all, it does not impede their ability to fly again (as long as the bird has fully fledged and is flying well if it is a baby; that's an entirely different issue when breeders/pet stores do this), and if it saves your relationship with a bird you love and care about and allows the bird to stay with you and be a part of your family which is living and caring, rather than the bird being rehomed, then I'm all for at least trying it.

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[EllenD]

Yeah, he is certainly exhibiting the not so nice traits of the species currently. Right now he is locked up and swinging upside down while regaling me with the highest pitched screeches he has to let me know his displeasure. He started to get focused on the conures so in he went. I might put the conures to bed for the night soon and let him out. And hopefully he will behave. I had to work all weekend and have been home late for the past few nights. So they all haven't gotten enough time out which is not helping any. And it'll be the same for most of this week. Big company event. I hate locking them up so much.

I absolutely agree that you should clip Sid and give it a try. It will certainly protect the conures so that they can be out whenever they want to be out (eliminating the screaming), it will give you control over Sid rather than the other way around so he/she must rely on you for ore, which usually knocks that attitude down a peg, and I've actually seen clipping knock them out of breeding season/turn off the hormones if that is part of the issue. If the latter is the case you'll see a change in Sid pretty quickly after clipping. After Sid is clipped and he/she calms down a bit and loses the dominant attitude, you can slowly try to get Sid and the conures used to coexistence. Sometimes a clipping is all it takes. The feathers will grow back, it's painless, and Sid will it lose his ability to fly well. I understand both sides of the issue and why you hesitate to do it, but when it's become a huge issue, to the point where you're considering rehoming the bird, it's definitely something you should try and it has no permanent effects.

All 4 of my larger birds are fully flighted right now (my 7 budgies are as well but they live in a huge indoor aviary and come out to hang out with me at their own play time each day; too large a size difference for my comfort) and Kane, my male Senegal has been here since November, he was born in September. I think your visual barrier idea using a room divider/screen is a great idea, it's basically what I did with Kane by moving him from the living room where the other 3 are to the connected dining room. He can't seem the other birds but he can see me if I'm on the couch watching TV, reading, or playing guitar, so it really has become an "out of sight, out of mind" situation for him.

Kane was slightly clipped when I brought him home, his breeder clipped he and his sister (only 2 in his clutch) a week after he fledged. At first I was a bit upset about this, only because I had been talking to his breeder on a daily basis from the day I saw his ad for the birds at the beginning of October until I drove to North Carolina to pick Kane up in the middle of November. I thought he would have discussed it with me before actually doing it, but he didn't. I got a text that he had fledged one morning and that if his second vet check-up went well and his smears were negative I could pick him up in a week. I was excited, I immediately drove down there on the first day I could, and then I saw he was clipped...Don't get me wrong, Kane's breeder is a wonderful man, actually it's a husband and wife in their 50's that have been breeding birds for decades, and they do it in a very responsible way. They only breed a few species once or twice a year, they pull the babies between 2-3 weeks and the babies immediately go to their avian vet at that point for testing and then again before they go home, and the babies are raised right in the middle of their living room in an area that is tested/swabbed twice a year. So I love them to death. But as a breeder myself I always asked the new owners if they wanted their new baby clipped. He told me he does it automatically because he doesn't want someone that doesn't know what they're doing trying to clip wings when the bird gets home, which I understood. That being said, I'm actually glad he did it because I wouldn't have clipped him automatically and I think that with a Senegal it's such a different situation than with the other species I have, like a green cheek conure, a Quaker, and a cockatiel. Senegals are stubborn, forceful, they try to be dominant and in control, and they really do need to be taught who the boss is from day 1.

I'm following your post because I haven't had these issues with Kane as of yet, but he's just starting to be able to fully fly now. I'm holding my breath, as I've already seen his jealousy expose itself...

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[JamesC]

Well, it has been about a week since I started the different out times. Though I modified it a bit based on his behavior. I let them all out when I get home, give them their evening treats, then change my clothes. Sidney will usually behave for the first 30-60 minutes after I sit down on the couch. When he does his squeal/blastoff thing or he starts to fixate on the conures, into his cage he goes. About 8, I put the conures to bed then let Sid back out. He seems to stay pretty calm and has been mostly a good bird during this time. Other wanting to destroy my laptop's mouse. He gets 60-90 minutes of out time.

I still have to figure out something for the weekends when I'm in the house. Tootsie will just freak the heck out with her screaming if I lock her up during the day when I'm home. So at the risk of losing a lot of blood, I'm considering seeing if I can train Sid to a harness so I can take him outside with me when I'm in the yard during good weather. He was an outside bird in Florida before I adopted him though he spent his days in a cage on a porch. He might be a little too spazztic for a harness, though. But it would be cool to see him get his "tan" back. The flesh around his eyes and nares was almost black when I adopted him. Now a much lighter shade of grey.

So overall, this has been successful so far. I need to come up with some new toy ideas for when he is inside his cage. He seems to get bored of anything I put in there within minutes.