Showering and clipping questions

[kendrafitz]

I brought Rosie, my baby 20 week old Green Winged Macaw in to see Dr. Doolen for her first vet visit on Friday. If you live in the Central NJ area, I highly recommend him, he was just awesome!

When Dr. Doolen saw her, he was very upset that the store had clipped her wings. He asked me to let her wings grow in as it is better for her in the long run. The bird store maintains that it is safer to keep her clipped. Since Rosie is our first fid I am just not sure what the best thing for her would be. I was wondering if anyone has an opinion/advice on clipping vs. not clipping?

Also, I was wondering at what age Greenwings should begin showering? The store said 6 months. The vet said to have her in the bathroom with the shower door open when I shower and let her explore on the floor and get used to the idea. He thought she might peek in and get a little damp. When I brought her to hang with me during showering for the first time, she explored and then peeked in and got a little damp. All good, but then she decided to come in and dance in the shower, getting completely soaked. She LOVED it, but I am not sure if I should have her in again until a certain age?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this LONG post and for any help/advice you can offer.

 

[DannyA93]

Ahh the age old question! to clip or not to clip! I think its entirely up to the owner and their living situation, if its safe for you to have a flighted macaw then go for it but if its not(kids leaving doors open and such) then clip them i think the ONLY reason someone should clip their birds wings is for safety.

I don't think there is a certain age for them to shower? if she loves it then let her i don't see any harm with being clean

 

[Mayden]

There's no age restriction on showering. These birds live in rainforests and I think that sums it up...

Clipping vs not clipping is entirely a personal decision. There are various threads on here which lists the pros and cons and personal reasons for both.

 

[Alisana]

Regarding showering, so long as she dries completely, then she won't be at risk of hyperthermia. Some owners will use a hair dryer (ensure it is free from PTFE/PFOA), others towel dry, or if it's sunny and you have a free flight area/cage that receives warm sunlight, that can dry them too.

As for flight, my personal stance is to use free flight - however, that comes with life style. We plan to have the backyard enclosed with cat mesh to allow our guys to fly in/out of the house. (This will be for both our mini and either the B&G or GW) We also later plan to work with harness training, then full free flight. (In our minds, if our macaw flies away when startled, at least being equipped with flight they have a greater chance of surviving in the wild before we find them, AND also if enough recall training is engrained, we can get him/her to come back)

My budgies on the other hand, I lightly clip. Recall training doesn't work so well with them. They'll only come when they want something (e.g. Millet or warmth) They are clipped enough to flutter down to the ground, but not enough to gain lift. The reason why I don't do a "full" clip is that it can put your bird at risk of injury - particularly if it's a larger bird like a macaw (hence why we refuse to clip)

If a clip has been done badly, and the bird has NO control of how fast they fall, a heavier bird such as a macaw that may fall from a perch or get startled and take flight can crash into the ground, fracturing, or even worse, breaking their breast bone. Your other issue can be trust with a wing clip - some birds feel very unstable after a clip, and if they fall after a clip and/or can't balance as they used to on their arm, they associate those feelings of uncertaintity with you. (Pet Parrots 101 - Wing Care & Clipping) If on the other hand, they are regularly clipped, then one recommendation that I've heard of is to train them with 'toy blocking' - this involves laying out heaps of toys between the bird and their object (e.g. food or a treat); by getting them to move and/or trip over, on, under toys, they can learn how to balance themselves without you being the association for their lack of balance.

I don't see a need to clip tertiaries; yet some people prefer them. Show clips are where the secondary is clipped, but primaries are left intact (this gives the appearance of a 'full' wing when folded), most common clip I believe is the primaries.

As stated, it's up to you. If you want free flight - work on recall training in the home. If not, then have a chat with others over which clip is recommended for macaws. (I can't offer advice here, as my clipping experience is only budgies)

 

[willist]

As far as clipping is concerned I'm a big advocate for clipping. Both my CAG and my Greenwing are clipped. They both come outside with me everyday which they love. My birds go to the beach, the park, the Chinese take out joint, Ace's hardware, the list goes on and on. My Greenwing loves going though fast food dive thru windows were he always says "hello" and tries to order water. Every time there is any kind of outdoor festival both me and my Greenwing are there. One of the best parts of owning my birds is interacting with the public. People just love talking to me taking pictures and having my big Greenwing on their arms. I speak to many bird owners who's bird never go out of the house, how sad. BTW, I just adopted a Harlequin Macaw and the 1st thing I did was to get her wings clipped, hopefully she'll be joining us outside soon.

 

[MaraWentz]

Showering should be invited at any age as long as they can get out of the way and know they can't breather under water. lol Sounds dumb, but Erin took a couple of times to realize that standing in the middle of the shower stream with her face up in the water for more than 5 seconds will cause sneezing and water in the nose and mouth. lol To clip or not to clip. Every one has their own opinion as will you. I say clip only if you are trying to tame or bond with it because birds as in their nature will fly away. I think other than that leave their feathers be. If they dont get in the way or harm the bird why take them away? It's something theyre born to grow and use. Your decision though.

 

[kendrafitz]

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it!

 

[kc_y0]

If you can let your bird fly, then by all means do . But please take extra safety precautions as often people have lost birds that have flown away, myself being one When birds get spooked they fly away out of fear. I always clip my birds. Its completely up to you though, if you choose to do it the vet should respect that.
As for showers, I have never heard of an age limit before. They love showers/baths/misting It's really good that she came in with you!

 

[JJones1719]

As long as your Macaw knows how to fly, it is best to clip. If your GW stays in the house, on a perch for much of it's life, then I guess you can let their wings grow in but if your GW is anything like mine, Both my Clipped birds go where I go. We go for walks, pet stores, Bird club meetings or just for a local drive. Both my boys are clipped and love the outdoors.

As far as showering, I say wet to the bone is the best way to go at 2-3 months old or older.
I keep 2 shower perches in my shower at all times, both my boys love the shower. I just place them into the shower, then I get in with them. They both fight over who will get underneith the shower head first. We remain in the shower until the water starts to get cold. After the shower, I quick towel dry them, they both start to shake the water off, then on a low setting and approx 36 inches away, I place the blow dryer on and set it on the sink while holding my boys letting the warm air hit them.
They preen while all this is going on and once completely dry, they puff up and love to look in the mirror.
My Eclectus will say what a pretty bird. My Neleno the GW will say smokin.
Best of luck to you Joe

 

[keepsmiling]

It is a false sense of security that clipping a bird is safer.Taking a bird outside that is clipped without a harness is very risky. A strong wind can lift a bird, and one that is startled can and will fly. So now if your bird is in a tree, he has no idea how to fly down, and predators will easily injure or kill him. My birds are all flighted. It makes for a much healthier bird, a fact. Bringing a bird to meetings, stores, etc. where other birds are, can expose them to disease.

 

[JJones1719]

First of all, If you know how to handle a bird while outside, the trick here is hold their foot while holding the bird at all times, this way the bird cannot get away, Both my birds look to me as their protector. i have been taking my birds with me for 6 years now and at no time have they ever even tried to fly away. they are very use to the outdoors.
2nd having a bird fully flighted in the home is just as dangerous, if they fly into a window or mirror, they can easy brake their necks or chest bone.
The bird club that I am in, all birds must be vet checked and have a clean bill of health. All Members have had their birds for many years and in the last 100 years have never had one issue with transferring any disease.
When I go to Petstores, there are mainly dogs on leash at the store, very few birds behind glass cages.
I have heard horror stories about flighted birds who are fly away from their owner and never to be seen again.
Harness are not full proof, Macaws can very easy bite through the harness while the owner is not aware of it and off they go. Holding a Macaw by the foot is a much safer way of taking a bird outside. I still stand behind keeping a bird clipped but only after the bird knows how to fly so the bird knows not to crash to the ground if they should fall from their perch or playstand while in the home. Best of luck to all joe

 

[keepsmiling]

They test the birds for ABV? The number of cases coming up recently is alarming. A bird can be fully engaged with a disease not tested for, or can be carriers.Some diseases do not raise their ugly head for up to 10 years. A glance over by a vet or wellness check,is another false sense of security. Disease has been found at bird fairs on surfaces. Some are airborne. No need to get into a huge debate. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. My birds are smart and have learned quickly how to maneuver and not crash into windows or anything else. I work with them and teach them how to fly up, fly down, and stay if needed. I don't allow them to fly wildly through my home. I have screens in place to keep them in their area, though if I am not in that area, I can still talk to and see them, and they respond back and can see me.They are in a limited area, but it beats being grounded to a playstand or cage all day. Or clipped and crippled. I helped a friend get her B&G back last year. They transported the bird back and forth to the home as you say with toes clasped. A stiff wind and a loud noise sent him on his way for four days. She was very lucky to get him back. No method is fool proof. Carriers are a good choice as well for your bird to get some fresh air. No person should ever have a bird outside in any manner if they are distracted. I know of people who have lost birds as well, clipped and unclipped. All persons who live with birds need to be aware of their presence at all times. Having kids around birds who are loose with the potential to escape is a good exception. We can go on and the debate will always exist.

 

[kendrafitz]

Thank you again for the replies! Now I have another question. Rosie was clipped at the bird store and does not know how to fly. So I am guessing if I decide to clip her I should let her feathers come in and have her learn to fly first? I do have a harness for her which I have put on her when I take her in the yard with us. However, right now she is molting and all the new feathers are bothering her. So the harness is really uncomfortable, so we have been inside the last couple days.

 

[Alisana]

It is a false sense of security that clipping a bird is safer.Taking a bird outside that is clipped without a harness is very risky. A strong wind can lift a bird, and one that is startled can and will fly. So now if your bird is in a tree, he has no idea how to fly down, and predators will easily injure or kill him. My birds are all flighted. It makes for a much healthier bird, a fact. Bringing a bird to meetings, stores, etc. where other birds are, can expose them to disease.

True points on all accounts!

I'm ensuring that I get my macaws fully checked (blood samples) by an avian vet before I bring it to visit any other birds - namely because I feel that I have a responsibility towards another owner for ensuring that MY bird doesn't infect theirs. While I can hope that other owners are as vigilant, I still don't trust bird meetings. I think the only person I would be visiting with my macaw would be Steve and Elmo (we're going to see how he interacts with another macaw seeing as Danny shunned him).

 

[Alisana]

They test the birds for ABV? The number of cases coming up recently is alarming. A bird can be fully engaged with a disease not tested for, or can be carriers.Some diseases do not raise their ugly head for up to 10 years. A glance over by a vet or wellness check,is another false sense of security. Disease has been found at bird fairs on surfaces. Some are airborne. No need to get into a huge debate. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. [...]

I did read about how bad bird diseases can be. A few of the avian vet clinics completely sterilise their rooms and don't allow other feathered patients to use the room for 24 hours if a bird with a contagious disease as passed through. (The amount of cleaning they do is incredible) Even the Vet Techs aren't allowed to handle birds for the rest of the day and have to shower down completely. It's always a worry.

 

[Merlee]

Disease has been found at bird fairs on surfaces. Some are airborne.

Now I am concerned about even attending a bird show/fair because of what I may bring home on my clothes and what the vendors may be transporting from one venue to another.

 

[keepsmiling]

You have to strip, shower, keep shoes out of the house, don't bring anything home unless you disinfect it, and you still run a risk. I don't go anymore. I buy most everything I need here~ MySafeBirdStore - DISCOUNTED Bird Products - Safe & Healthy from a Bird Free Environment. Best prices on the 'net. Same day shipping.
There may be a discount here if you are a member. I know we have one at AA.
An example of how diseases are spread~
"The disease occurs in captive and wild birds and probably originated from Australia, for it is now found in psittacine birds in Europe and America."
from: http://www.parrotsociety.org.au/articles/art_007.htm

 

[JJones1719]

Just a FYI, The bird club I belong to, all members are required to blood test their birds before the Club will allow the owner to bring their birds. I can only talk about my Club and it's history, The Bird Fanciers here in MD is one of the oldest bird clubs in the country and at no time have we ever had an outbreak. As far as taking your bird to a bird show or mart, I would not take my birds.
I do not have kids in my home so I do not risk the chance of my birds getting out.
My birds have free range in my home, both are potty trained and climb up and onto everything, my home is bird safe and even more child proof then some homes.

I would advise you to let your bird's feathers come in to teach them how to fly, so if your choice is to clip, they know how to flutter then full flight.
If you take your birds outside, yes, I agree, you have to be very aware of your surroundings and keep a firm grip on their toes.
Recall trainging is the best thing you can do for your bird so if your bird were to get away, recall trainging would help you get your bird back. using a clicker or whistle is the best weapon against losing a bird.
Making sure that your birds are blood tested once a year as well as their anual check ups is the way to prevent or treat an unhealthy bird. Birds hide illness very well so you have to stay ontop of this.
No matter what you deside to do when it comes to clipping or not to clip, learn everything you can to prevent a lost bird.
Best of luck to you Joe