Separating 2 Macaws?

[rkrose]

We are at a point where we can't deal with the 2 Macaws we took in 4 months ago. The president of the local bird club who said she would take them if it didn't work out and pay me 500. for the cage has backed out. In her e-mail she offered a different greenwing or B&G. I did cat rescue for 3 years so I get the whole desperation thing but I personally wouldn't offer another bird to someone who is bailing on a pair of them.

The original owner who said she raised them from babies but couldn't tell me exactly how old they are (we celebrate our pets birthdays but maybe others don't care) did not want them given/sold back to the breeder because she said they would get separated and used for breeding.

I'm currently not inclined to follow either the original owners wishes or deal with the bird club lady. The original owner was the one who decided to stop working with the birds. The bird club lady said the cage was fine for 2 macaws, luckily we had already built a different cage (fenced off part of the house) that is big enough for them.

Please refrain from letting me know what horrible people we are for doing this to the birds, we already feel like absolute failures and I could go on and on but it's pointless.

We think the idea that these are a "bonded pair" is a bunch of baloney. I personally don't see how caged birds find their mate in the first place, unless they are with a breeder, isn't it just a matter of some person deciding to throw a male and a female together to see if it works?

Do you think it's okay to let them go back to the breeder or are we making them even more miserable putting them into that position?

Thanks,
Rhonda

 

[Pinkbirdy]

I think were all trying to figure out how to answer you. Rehomes can be hard . Im thinking they must be doing something that makes you want to do this. You see all my birds . Some can take a year or even longer to figure things . If these guys are bonded I would try to keep them together. But their not babies [I know Macaws are expensive]. I dont know what your going to get for these birds [are they untame?] We are bird people on here so we are going to say do whats best for the birds dont worry about the money you get.I have only heard of breeders giving money back for babies they have sold with problems . This rescue will not take them back ?

 

[MangoandKiwi]

I'm so sorry to hear that the birds are not working out. I also had to think a bit about how to respond. Rehoming birds can be very hard especially if they come with "behavioral problems" like screaming, aggression etc. It takes a lot of time, patience and sometimes a lot of confidence to work with these birds. I can't imagine how it would have been if my 2 little un-tame monsters had the sizes and vocals of macaws. I think I would have ended up crying many many times! There are people and rescues who can and are willing to work with any bird but it might be hard to ask money.. I also completely understand how horrible it must feel if you have infested so much (toy's, cage, food etc) for such a short time but for a good home for the birds it might be worth it?
I would not separate them, bonded birds should stay together or maybe a very very experienced person can make a better judgement on it, but it's very tricky (honestly I think my Kiwi will die within a week if something happens to Mango or if they get separated)

Also, don't feel bad, we are here to help not to judge. xoxo

 

[rkrose]

Thanks for the responses. Just talked with the breeder. I could write a book on this at this point. She remembers the Greenwing and it's a female, not a male. She was going to buy the birds back and being my usual too talkative self I mentioned my backup plan falling thru so she latched onto the 500. for the birds and the cage. Now for the hard part, she said all the things a breeder would say to make me think this would be okay. Some of it is true but as has been the case with this whole deal, lots of it was not.

So, I'm back to not knowing what to do. Crazy quagmire we created here. Do birds in a breeding program really have it that bad?

She didn't have the info in front of her, just remembered the GW so maybe the other is a female also? Did the owner mix it up when telling us or did the breeder purposely give her a 2nd female because she knew the owner was going to try to breed them. I have a million questions and don't know who to trust.

I think an experienced macaw person could work with these 2 birds. We just ran in too many circles with conflicting info (i.e., don't force them out of the cage - don't work with them in their cage) (if only I had found birdman's posts earlier!).

I'm not trying to make money on the birds, I'll be giving away almost $200 in food (F&S and Zupreme) and another 100 in toys since the birds go thru them at a rate of a couple a week so gotta keep them in stock.

Thanks for all your help, so sorry to have another sad story when I know you all are here to try to make these things not happen.

Rhonda

 

[rkrose]

To Pinkbirdy: They bite a lot, I have no capacity to take a bite and not react and it wasn't until the last couple days where I read birdmans post about the trick of wrapping your arm in a towel and ace bandage under your shirt. I absolutely HATE getting bit and now we have lost that opportunity to set the rules.

Plus, I just don't get how we can make them happy, I got confirmation from the breeder that the previous owner never caged them.

Plus, we have no problem with their loud screams (very infrequent) but 1 of our dogs runs and hides in the bedroom for hours. Can't believe we didn't think that one thru. Actually can't believe we are where we are with this.

 

[Pinkbirdy]

I had two untame macaws that were kept in a basement . When I brought them home they wanted to eat me . You should see the hole in my couch that was meant for me!I interacted with them every day . I opened their doors and they went up on top of their cage or I could put one on a playstand.I could get them around by stepping up on a perch. I insisted and they did it [I didnt want to get bit]. Over time they took an interest in me and our relationship developed .I had the attitude I was happy with what they were willing to give. Now my GW I take to my girls soccer games in a harness shes wonderful. As for being loud they do their calls in the evening.Its instinctive .

 

[MangoandKiwi]

My birds were breeding birds and never socialized. I would never let them go back into that situation, they were housed with only 2 old dirty toys that looked older than me, dirty cage, they had dirty feet, very old perches that we tossed out, the food that came with them looked so gross I tossed it out too. There are breeders that take really good care of their breeders but honestly there are a lot of them that do not (especially what I call craigslist breeders)

Mango loves human interaction and out-of-the-cage time, it would be cruel for him if he would go back to his former breeding situation. Kiwi is coming around great too, loves being out of the cage and takes food from the hand, she loves her fresh berries, singing and dancing and she talks, I think she will become a great flyer! I still get sometimes bitten too, just got nailed pretty bad now lol

Maybe you can put them up for adoption on this forum? Or find them someone who wants to work with them instead of that breeder? Or you can give it one more try?

 

[amjokai]

Honestly not all breeders are bad. I am a breeder and most of my birds aren't tame but they have toys, clean cages, vet care and fresh healthy food. They're all very happy!

No not all breeder birds have it bad.

Some do and give a bad name to all of the good breeders that love their birds.

 

[MangoandKiwi]

Hi amjokai,

So happy to hear that, I guess with all the adventures I now have with my little rascals and seeing so many breeding pairs rotating on craigslist my heart often sinks. I do know there are amazing breeders out there! and... if my birds ever decide to pick up their old breeding job (which I really really hope they do not ) it will be people like you whom I will turn to for advice!

 

[Anansi]

Hello, Rhonda.

I'm sorry to hear that you have gotten to the point where you feel the need to rehome your macaws. Like the wonderful responses you've already received, you won't be getting judgement from me, either. No one knows the particulars of your situation like you do, and sometimes a person will find that they're just not cut out for bird ownership. It happens.

Now, whether or not you're one of those people, or simply someone who is currently feeling overwhelmed by two behaviorally challenged macaws, I couldn't say. Only you could answer that for certain.

But, on the off chance that you are overwhelmed rather than not really a bird person, I think you should know that you are acting on an incorrect premise. You have NOT lost the opportunity to establish boundaries or set rules. It doesn't work like that.

Of course, setting these boundaries at the same time that they moved in with you, making the whole thing part and parcel of their new experience, would've been ideal. It would've given you a bit of a headstart, but that's all. It's not some kind of prerequisite to taming or bite pressure training.

It's not too late.

I see you've read up on Birdman's techniques. That's good. He's successfully rehabilitated quite a few dangerously aggressive birds during his time as a volunteer at a rescue.

There are "New School" approaches (by people like Barbara Heidenreich) that you might want to research as well, before deciding what works best for you.

Both approaches, though vastly different, have yielded definite results with the taming process. Personally I fall somewhere in the middle, adopting techniques from both ideologies, and that works for me.

No matter what path you take, however, the common denominators will be time, patience and consistency. The changes won't happen overnight. Especially with parrots as aggressive as yours seem to be. Might take weeks. Possibly even months.

But it can be done.

Oh, and one other thing. That whole idea about not reacting to bites? Good way to get yourself all torn up. They need to understand that biting you is not an acceptable means of communication. So you tell them "No" in a firm, but even, tone. And you stop them from biting you. Preferably by intercepting the beak before they can latch on. Fingers on either side of the beak is enough stop them from biting you.

A trick to help get you through their most aggressive periods us to carry what I call a "distractor" around with you. A bird-safe piece of wood or hard plastic that can fit into the palm of your hand. When that beak comes in for the bite, intercept with the distractor. They'll begin chewing on that and get distracted from their intended purpose of gnawing on you. Redirection.

I wrote all of this just in case you want to give it another try. But if you feel like you are really just DONE, hopefully it can make the time from now until you find a good home for them somewhat more bearable.

Good luck either way, Rhonda.

 

[Birdman666]

I can't really answer this question without an honest history, which it sounds like you don't have, and without seeing how they interact together.

THAT'S your key. Do they ACT like bonded birds... or not?

When you pick one up and take it across the room, and leave the other one, do they get upset?

Does the male physically get between you and the female? Try and push her away, and pinch you when you reach for her?

Those are the types of clues you're looking for.

 

[rkrose]

Thanks so very much for the advice and understanding, it actually brings tears to my eyes because I'm harsh on myself and know that none of this is the birds fault so I'm beating myself up hard over this. We are hanging in there, just got info from the breeder and I think it may be accurate. She says the male is a female and the female is a male and they are both younger than we were told. What we have observed makes more sense now.

We are going to give it more time. I'm sure I'll be turning to all of you for more info.

Thanks again!
Rhonda

 

[Birdman666]

But, on the off chance that you are overwhelmed rather than not really a bird person, I think you should know that you are acting on an incorrect premise. You have NOT lost the opportunity to establish boundaries or set rules. It doesn't work like that.

Of course, setting these boundaries at the same time that they moved in with you, making the whole thing part and parcel of their new experience, would've been ideal. It would've given you a bit of a headstart, but that's all. It's not some kind of prerequisite to taming or bite pressure training.

It's not too late.

I see you've read up on Birdman's techniques. That's good. He's successfully rehabilitated quite a few dangerously aggressive birds during his time as a volunteer at a rescue.

No matter what path you take, however, the common denominators will be time, patience and consistency. The changes won't happen overnight. Especially with parrots as aggressive as yours seem to be. Might take weeks. Possibly even months.

But it can be done.

Oh, and one other thing. That whole idea about not reacting to bites? Good way to get yourself all torn up. They need to understand that biting you is not an acceptable means of communication. So you tell them "No" in a firm, but even, tone. And you stop them from biting you. Preferably by intercepting the beak before they can latch on. Fingers on either side of the beak is enough stop them from biting you.

A trick to help get you through their most aggressive periods us to carry what I call a "distractor" around with you. A bird-safe piece of wood or hard plastic that can fit into the palm of your hand. When that beak comes in for the bite, intercept with the distractor. They'll begin chewing on that and get distracted from their intended purpose of gnawing on you. Redirection.

I SECOND ALL OF THE ABOVE, ABSOLUTELY GOSPEL.

You haven't MISSED your opportunity to set boundaries, they just haven't been set yet. Macaws require a firm hand, and clear boundaries. Think of them as toddlers with feathers... THEY GET SET WHEN YOU DECIDE TO BECOME FIRM ABOUT SETTING THEM. On some levels it's really just that simple.

AND THAT WHOLE ADVICE ABOUT IGNORING THE BITES IS ABSOLUTE HORSE MANURE... I'VE SAID IT BEFORE, AND I'LL REPEAT IT NOW... THEY NEED CLEAR COMMUNICATION THAT BITING WILL NOT NOW, AND WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR... THE MORE YOU IGNORE BITES, THE MORE YOU COMMUNICATE THAT IT IS OKAY FOR THE BIRD TO BITE YOU. I don't know where that advice originated but it's ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

WHAT YOU DON'T DO WITH A BIRD THAT BITES IS SHOW FEAR, OR DO WHAT EVER THE BIRD WANTS, ANY TIME IT BITES YOU... DOING THAT TRAINS A BIRD TO BITE WHEN EVER IT WANTS SOMETHING.

 

[Birdman666]

Thanks so very much for the advice and understanding, it actually brings tears to my eyes because I'm harsh on myself and know that none of this is the birds fault so I'm beating myself up hard over this. We are hanging in there, just got info from the breeder and I think it may be accurate. She says the male is a female and the female is a male and they are both younger than we were told. What we have observed makes more sense now.

We are going to give it more time. I'm sure I'll be turning to all of you for more info.

Thanks again!
Rhonda

If there's anything I can do, if you have any question, just PM me.

Misbehaving macs aren't exactly new to me...

Read this, and there's also a link to a tips for first time macaw owners, that has some more links to some more good threads.
That ought to help give you some idea how to go about it.

Your birds, from what I'm hearing, just haven't really been handled yet.
Once they get handled consistently their behavior will improve.

http://www.parrotforums.com/macaws/57693-my-baby-macaw-going-out-control-2.html

http://www.parrotforums.com/macaws/53118-excitement.html